Gary; Haven’t worked on your particular year but most Fords have a FUEL FILTER along the frame directly under the driver: on the inside . Fairly cheap simple fix. If you get a new filter you might want to make sure you get new plastic clips. They get old and brittle. TomC
Oh yes. and check the exhaust system. We had a couple of trucks that the catalytic converter rotted on the inside and plugged the exhaust — second thought probably not your problem. Just tying to think of some dumb things that have caused me problems.
By the way. I have lost all confidence in the “mew” starting fluids-- they ain’t your either anymore. It doesn’t really mean you have a spark problem if they don’t fire on this new stuff.
Good advice, Tom. Here’s a story to go along with it.
We left for Webster, Ma. for Thanksgiving, 79 Corolla ran good for 10 miles and then it gradually lost power. Five more miles and I was down to a crawl. I shut it off for a look see, nothing obvious and it started right up, idled great (tried it several times). Hmmm, crawled home at 5 mph in the breakdown lane. Without a moment’s hesitation, our neighbor offered us a car. Everyone should have a neighbor like ours… talk about Thanksgiving.
Anyhow the problem turned out to be a collapsed (eaten up internally) muffler. Replaced it, problem gone.
Pepe
I was told as a kid, that it can be problematic for a teacher, if you smash a potato,apple or something over the end of the tail pipe on their car. Hmmmm! Interesting. TomC
“MythBusters” tested that one and every vehicle they tested just blew out the potato without any effort. They then filled the muffler with concrete trying to “replicate the results”, and that did stall the motor right away.
Hey guys, thanks for the suggestions. The muffler was replaced two months ago. The fuel filter is being replaced while at the garage getting inspected and some other work done. Don’t think there are any potatoes or apples stuck in the exhaust It does run well on gasoline once it gets started! I’ll try propane instead of ether next time, Wayne, many years ago I filled a ballon with some acetylene then gave it a good shot of oxygen, Taped a fire cracker to it and set in in my Mom’s flower bed. Lit the fuse and Holy MOLY!! I blamed the flattened flowers on the dog.
Gary in PA
My observations:
Fuel supply, some systems don’t like to be run without pressure in the line. That’s why i switch of the injectors electric and not the fuel pump.
If a car gets a LPG install, i trick the computer with some resistors ( switch box that disconnects the injectors electric and replaces the current flow with resistors )
Anyhow, pump running dry, Symptome none or only few drops at your engine fuel line, can be caused by one injector that is bleeding air in dry mode ( no pressure on the injector)
Also take a look at the fuel pump intake, any blocking will make the pump having problems to build up pressure after running dry.
But, as always, Gary, you’r doing well in keeping my mind busy with idea’s and experiments
December 3 and here is an update. Picked up the Ford Ranger (aka “Mule”) from the service station where it was getting the annual PA state inspection, It needed a replacement bumper (rusted out), some sway bar end links and rear spring shackles. When I picked it up, the mechanic told me he had trouble starting it too and that he removed the spark plugs and found it flooded. Alright, that explains why I could not get it running on ether also. With this knowledge confirmed, I will be leaving the fuel pump off when cranking the engine and then stop, Turn the key back on and crank the engine and turn on the fuel pump. Hopefully this will work.
I drove it to the Penn State DuBois campus today where I gave a presentation to the students in a dendrology (tree) course, Yes, charcoal was one of the items I talked about and showed them a picture of old Mule parked out side, I am relieved to know what the problem is which will give me more confidence in operating the vehicle.
More experimentation to do and one thing to look at is controlling the injectors instead of the fuel pump. Another design change will be an auxilary fuel container to give me a longer run time between fueling. And then there is the opportunity to install my Kallhe style gasifier that I used on the VW beetle and Model T truck that can be augmented with wood chips or sawdust.
Anyhow, that is where the Ford Ranger project stands for now,
Gary in PA
Hi Garry,
most probable then; leaking injector(s)… but still does not explain why its possible to start it on Charcoal when it does not start on gasoline. Or am i missing something ?
I distilled from earlier postings, that it would not start on gasoline, but subsequently would start ( after effortless trying to start on gasoline ) on charcoal ?
I might be misunderstanding the point there
Good to confirm that it’s flooding. I suspected as much from your earlier startup procedures.
Three ideas:
Unplug the computer and reset it. See if that helps.
Get an AFR gauge. This will help you mix the woodgas and diagnose gasoline issues.
Consider a PWM for the fuel pump. This can just be a $20 brake controller. By reducing the voltage, you get less fuel pressure, and you’ll lean out the engine to where it will run.
Koen, this isn’t a leaking injector problem. The computer is confused by the lean woodgas, and is actually pouring in too much gasoline.
Once you switch off the fuel pump and run only on charcoal, the computer is getting a constant lean condition, so it will add more injector pulse-width trying to compensate. Eventually it will max out, having had no effect. Over a few miles, it will now store this value into long term fuel trim.
When you restart on gasoline the next day, the computer uses the long term value as a starting point. Oxygen sensors are offline until they warm up, so the computer works “from memory”. Since this memory says " give full pulse-width to injectors and it’s still not enough!" - then that’s what it does. Only now with gasoline available, that’s far too much fuel. The engine floods, and won’t even start.
If one were to try starting on woodgas at this point, it would still be flooded from the gasoline. But repeated cranking would eventually clear it out. If you had tried the woodgas without trying gasoline first, it would have worked fine.
Thanks Chris,
Your explanation makes perfect sense…
Again, i learned something. i was unaware of that memory value use.
Lucky for me, the small tuktuk did not read this yet (easy setup for injection) and is tricked by the pulse wide restriction build in now.
MIL stands for “malfunction indicator lamp”, aka check engine light. That could be any number of things, including a lean condition, misfire, oxygen sensor, coolant temp sensor, etc. Some of these will be caused by woodgas.
You can read the codes for free at most auto parts stores. Then reset the codes, drive some more, and see which ones come back.
Hey All.
There are actually books on EFI systems types, controlls. Whys; and where-fores; and design compromise decisions, and such. Buy an expensive Snap-on or OTC scanner set and this info is vehicle specific system look-up included.
Actually BUY a decent parts-store, or Internt avasilable code scanner and you can buy time into that manufactures on-line systems explanations, experienced learned data-base trouble shooting.
And that is the real problem with the drop-in “free” code reading.
And that the problem with the cheap use your own laptop “free”/cheap down load read-code systems.
For “free”/cheap you will only ever get just exactly what you were willing to invest in.
Your most useful long term investment should be in your self in your reading/studying of the different EFI systems you and yours are now dependent on.
And that you can start to do “free” with internet searches. Start with OBDII origins, evloution, wheres it going.
The hard costs to you will be your time investments this way sorting out the very high poor/bad/misleading info relevancy chatter now on the internet where ALL get to speak equal.
You will never get more out of something than you are willing to invest and work into it.
Yep. Just too damn bad that the US/Japan/EU topdown Regulators have made vehicle EFI so layered and deep to learn. Hey! The Priests always baffle with bullshit. Love to obscure in baffle code talk. How they earn their salt.
I agree with Steve. You have to study the system that you are working on. I use to go to free classes put on bay a company who sold $50,000 to $100,000 dollar machines to shops. These never really told you the exact problem they just pointed you in the right part of the system. The company got a government contract to teach mechanics that were in danger of being un employed how to do all the testing that their machine would do only with just a Digital V-o meter and a analog meter. For graduation we were given 10 books that were 6" thick, with the current systems.
Doggoneit Chris, Why didn’t you give me that great answer/insight when this problem started? Here I am calling my Ford names (Mule) and almost kicking the dog. Great synopsis of the problem and now a pulse width modulator (PMW) will be added to control the fuel pump.
Thanks, that reallllllly helped.
Gary in PA
Well, with the up most confidence in knowing that my problem is over stimulated injectors flooding out the engine, I attempted to start the truck Monday morning, It had been shut down last Thursday on charcoal gas so no gasoline used. Got in, cranked the engine with the fuel pump shut off. Nothing as expected. Then cranked it again and turned on the fuel pump, A few cylinders fired. Turned off the pump and tried again, Same as before. Never got running and eventually gave up, Tried it again yesterday and NOTHING!
OK, this afternoon, I pull the plugs and lay them on a grounded piece of aluminum. Even use a jumper cable to hook the spark plug to a ground, Turn the engine over and NONE of the spark plugs sparked! Previous to this test, I made sure the coil pack was getting power. Take a set of spare plugs, put them on the wires and crank the engine. They ALL fire! Anyhow, I put these sparking sparkplugs in the engine and proceed to start on charcoal gas. Until I get a PWM on my fuel pump, it is best to leave the fuel pump turned off when trying to start the Mule.
Gary in PA
Gary according to a ranger thread a 15 minute battery disconnect is supposed to reset your computer. That may allow you to restart ongas without the stored lean values it has learned? Just some late night musings.
It does run well on gasoline once it gets started! I’ll try propane instead of ether next time, Wayne, many years ago I filled a ballon with some acetylene then gave it a good shot of oxygen, Taped a fire cracker to it and set in in my Mom’s flower bed. Lit the fuse and Holy MOLY!! I blamed the flattened flowers on the dog.
Here I am calling my Ford names (Mule) and almost kicking the dog. Great synopsis of the problem and now a pulse width modulator (PMW) will be added to control the fuel pump.