Can pyrolysis oil be re-gasified to fuel a gas engine?

Hi Tone he said 5,000 US gallons of diesel used. Not liters.
So that energy used line would need to multiply by 3.8
S.U.

4 Likes

The translator translated it into liters, I apologize Steve, …
This makes the numbers even more unfavorable, with wood representing only a fifth of the energy, but even that is something. On this consumption, I would first study the pumps themselves, at what height the water is pumped and in what area of its characteristics the pump operates, there can be big savings, or energy losses, …
Otto engine produces 10kWh of working energy on the consumed 8-10 kg of wood and loses 40-50% of power.
Diesel with the addition of wood gas produces 10kWh per used 1l of oil and 4-5kg of wood and loses about 20-30% of power.
Please correct me if I made a mistake … :thinking:

3 Likes

These calculations are made at recent prices for diesel. Suppose the prices radically rose or supplies became limited. Prognostication? I’m not smart enough for that.

1 Like

Yup, you are a commercial grower. So I would suggest a ‘turn key’ setup. There are some around. I’m not selling anything here but one commercial gasifier maker would be Community Power Corporation, Englewood, Colorado http://gocpc.com/biomax-systems.html
Rindert

2 Likes

I was more involved on the gasification side than the Fischer Tropsch research. The group I was working with was commercializing some technology from a university. They had a nanotech angle to the catalyst but that’s all I know.

2 Likes

Sorry for the late reply
To answer the question directly, you technically don’t need to. These guys who are located in cali, actually have a patented way to take the condensate from the char making process and in one step turn it into a usable fuel. It is based on work at Uni of Georgia.

I have not much insight on the process, they have facilities in china and like indonesia.


Second, I just read a paper that said you could irrigate a bit less during the hot months without crop loss.

I know almonds use quite a bit of water so you may be already using the method.

I would probably look at putting a shipping container or two at the top of the property, then use a solar power pump to fill them up with water, and use it to feed a drip irrigation system. The new soil monitoring stuff is starting to look pretty decent for row crops. I would assume the same for orchard crops, but you can zone the areas and only water if they need it.

Certainly you can use woodgas, woodchips or even convert to charcoal for fuel for the generators. If I had that much usable wood product, I would be calling tolero to see if you can’t license like a mobile unit or something. You get the fuel, and you will get a bunch of biochar, and probably lots of minerals that you can reapply to your trees.

The other thing -I- would look at is the biological activity in the soil itself, which is my personal latest kick. Mychrozial fungi can actually invade a tree root, and they trade nutrients and water for carbon (they also like biochar) , they kind of act like root extensions except fungus excretes acids that break down minerals. THEY ALSO can excrete natural fungicides to help prevent some tree diseases. I am only mentioning it because I know there is a fairly high rate of fungicides in some orchards which end up killing the mycorrhizae fungus and beneficial bacteria.

Then there are nematodes that can kill a number of pests in the ground especially larvae that can help you out as well and reduce the need for the pesticides. Some of the packs with the mycorrhizae have some bacteria like the brasilia’s whatever that gets in a plant and produces nitrogen. It is worth testing because just have the mycorrhizae hold water in the root zone is going to reduce irrigation costs, and I am guessing it will also help hold rain water and let that soak in better rather then run off.

I wouldn’t go totally overboard for 200 acres but you can get mixes and test it out on a few trees. They actually say the noticeable difference in years of extreme types of weather like drought or heavy rains so it may not be a huge difference especially the first couple of years.

take it for what it is worth, which is just stuff you may or may not be aware of that may help you or it may not. i read all the organic techniques like that. some you might be able to use, and others are impractical at a larger scales and almost ALL changes seem cost prohibitive even if they will pay for themselves down the road.

1 Like

Thank You for the information Sean. I am aware of the Mychrozial fungi and the way it helps tree roots get nutrients from the soil. I have gone to a couple field days that talked about how to promote it in your soil. We had a freeze during almond bloom in January that took much of the crop here in northern California so I am looking for ways to help the trees get the nutrients they need with out applying fertilizer. I like it when God fertilizes the trees out of his resources and I don’t have to out of mine!
I need to look into Tolero Renewables they may have something that would work.
Thanks
Ken

2 Likes

That is good! There are also nematodes that will eat larvae of pests. Then there are some beneficial bacteria that can infect a plant and provide nitrogen as well.

I found this from a website yesterday, but they transferred ownership and the page kept refreshing and redirecting to another site so I made a pdf of the webpage. :stuck_out_tongue:
It generally describes how to grow the fungus, and a short bit on application. But it could save you some money.
mycorrhizal_fungi.pdf (2.2 MB)
Most people are using the korean natural gardening method, using brown rice, but that is MUCH more expensive then many other grains that you can buy by the bushel like oats. Then even if you buy packet of spores like they sell endo/ecto myco mixes for gardens, you can replicate multiple times to do your whole orchard. What I can’t find is whether it will develop with existing trees and new roots, or how to innoculate those.

You can replicate nematodes but it is a little bit trickier.

Replicating bacteria is a whole other level…

Sorry to hear. :frowning:

I would do it that way. You CAN make pyrolysis oil from your wood, then dewater it and sell it to a refinery. BUT the reason I did not mention it is because there are all sorts of laws regarding manufacture, dewatering and transport, and you are in cali with a large oil industry and heavy regulation. You could make wood vinegar but in some places that is regulated as well, and it probably violates prop 42 or whatever the hazardous substance rule is that covers everything. You honestly are better off to convert to woodgas directly.

You are operating at a different scale then most on this site. These guys aren’t that far from you they are in the bay area, and make larger scale equipment, but they always seem expensive to me. I didn’t mention them before, because they do electric generation, and you don’t have electric pumps (which given all the EVs in cali finding big motors probably wouldn’t be that hard or expensive.). This chartainer looks interesting (but not 300k interesting unless you have a group of growers or do clean up for other orchards on a contract basis and they need to do something productive besides heat with the off-gas), however, I would email them. The owner is a wood gas geek and he is always looking for new market opportunities.