CHP project for my small farm in Norway

Yes the grid once locked on would control it wouldnt it?

Yes it would, hence the constant drag on the motor.
Ill set up a Youtube account to document as I go, but winter here in Norway can be challenging.

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Cool deal, keep me posted very interested in your project. You could come live here in Michigan, only 6" of snow so far, sun came out a few weeks ago have seen it since. :slight_smile:

If we all never stepped outside the box and did things our own way, we would never progress or evolve. Tell me no it cant be done and Ill die trying to prove you wrong haha

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Yeh, you just have to try it out, if it dont work you would have learned something for the next build :grinning:
We only have 4" here now after three days of rain, fortunately the temperature is going down again now and normal winter is back, I rather have -5C than +1C and rain.
A normal 3phase 10kW engine cost around 600-800 dollars here in Norway, used I can get them for 100 dollars all day long, now that is a cheap generator head.

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It all depends the needs , for each case to look into.
In your case, you can use the grid as your ā€œbatteryā€ using the grid if needed.
I have no idea what the equipment requirements are in your case, i know that the controller you posted the link of would be some / give some trouble to sync it with your grid. I is build to governor your engine speed with the grid frequency, your engine needs to run about 3,3 % faster then gridā€¦ so, i am not sure how to come around that, the simple way.

My case, needing a set that creates a ā€œgrid independencyā€ in case of and or a total off grid solution.

1: Any hybrid grid converter can do
2: Can be enlarged or enhanced in a modular fashion
3: but above all, it reduces your need for a constant rpm per load on your engineā€¦ low loads can use low rpm and vice versa

Having the option using inductive motors to run as generator is very positive, in any configuration, but will they produce in off grid mode ? and what would be the cost to make that happen ?

In any case, your CHP project has my full attention, looking forward so see you making progress.

Footnote:
Grid tied inverters are the cheapest but not all are the same quality ( same as car audio amplifiers, some have big numbers but small bangā€™s )

Edit: ad link to some USA inverters

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That is pretty cheap, the range quite a bit here depends on name brand and quality you want. You can get a Predator with the 24 hp LIfan engine producing 13.5 kW for around $1500 USD or you could go with name brand and high quality unit and pay over $5000.00. On our Evolution I offer a range of engines. The cheapest is the Predator V twin at $900.00 just for the engine and then I offer the Honda equivalent, a Kohler Liquid cooled V Twin and now a Kawasaki Liquid cooled V twin. The Liquid cooled engine are not cheap and range from $2400 to around $3500 depending on HP output.

You also need to factor in a 50% power loss so that 10 kW gen set will only be good for around 5-6 kW running on wood gas. There is a little more to our machines than just an engine and generator head. We use a gear ramping to get the engines into higher rpm range for a higher power curve so overcome the power loss for the same HP range engine. That part is part of the expense.

Like you say everyone have different needs when it comes to design of CHP.
I like the Schneider Electric Conext XW+ 6848 Inverter/Charger, it has a three phase 230V generator input and that mean less modifying to match it to my system, I dont like the price tho :roll_eyes:
I could switch over to generator only for specific high consumtion tasks like my beer brewer or bandsaw.

Matt you are way ahead of me when it comes to building gasifiers, so I hope to get advice on the way for my CHP.
Right now Im gathering parts for the first build, its going to be my learning project before I set in motion a larger 40-50kW gasifier unit.
We get government incentives for solar, wind and heating, I hope I can get something moving for gasification on farms too.

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like everyone else here Ill do what i can.

Cheers

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Thank you

btw im at 63Ā° 25ā€™ 47ā€ N and 010Ā° 23ā€™ 36ā€ E :grin:
Thats equal to Tanana Alaska over there I think

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Roger,
The way I look at it you can push any excess power into the grid. No batteries needed.
When it comes to power outs, they are rear in our areas and should it happen batteries only last for so long anyway.
Living off grid is a different story. That will require batteries to save on the equipment.
If you really need emergency power, what about hooking up a second pto genny to the B20? Shut off the grid connection and you have ā€œunlimitedā€ power for as long as youā€™re able to feed the gasifier. Only downside is you can no longer use the grid as your governor. You will have to use your own.
Iā€™ve seen used 15-25 kW pto gennys for sale for 5000-15000 kr ($600-1800).

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Hi Jan-Ola,
Yes Jan-Ola Im going to go for my original idea with the asynchron generator, Im going to talk to some people that have micro hydro plants to see what monitoring equipment they are using to cut of the grid.
Electricaly I have all the parts I need to make this work (I work as a automatic technichian), its easy to just grid tie the gasifier, to make it by the book is the trick.
I made a account at DSE, that way I have access to all the technical documents of theyre equipment and also the software (software is actually free).
DSE offer all sorts of monitoring equipment out of the box for generators, that means less fidling around with arduinos and raspberrys.

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Haha, I did too in the late 80s and 90s. We can now stop giving you advice in the electrical field and focus on the gasifier :smile:

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Aha, now I understand why you got the idea with the asynchron generator so quickly.
Why did you give up that line of work Jan-Ola?
Yes my struggle is going to be a fully automated gasifier, and automated ash/char clean out.

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Well, the usual. I got fed up with the routine and at the time I was offered a new post as shift leader / load planner. Better hours and better pay.
IĀ“m now old enough to realise what really matters in life and I would like to try getting out of the rat race and manage on my own before itĀ“s too late. WeĀ“ll see.

I will not mask the fact that I belive a gasifier to be one of the least suitable machines to automate. You may have read about WayneĀ“s saying that managing a gasifier is about 75% operator and 25% machine. Many comparasions have been made to the female mind. A gasifier can behave in completly different ways for no obvious reasons.
IĀ“m not saying it canĀ“t be done, but whatever brain you will be using it will require lots of input from the gasifier. I belive @Matt is the man here when it comes to automating a gasifier.

This German guy is doing a lot of automation in the redneck way many of us like :smile:

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I can understand the need for change, after a while a jobb can get boringā€¦
My jobb has its + and -
The positive is that its ok salary and after one watch period (one week) you get 3,5 days off with pay.
Also I have all sorts of tasks and its never two days alike.
The down side is all the hrs Im working, next week Im going to have three 12hr night shifts to get a project done, since we cant stop the production during daytime.

I have had a look on the Drizzler for a while now but it seem so unsafe with the open flame and all, but its probably possible to have a lid over it and have a vented chamber.
The old fashion way with auger feeding and ash shaking is going to be my first atempt.

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Interesting way he keeps those stringy wood chips from bridging. Iā€™ll have to file that idea away.

Andy, if you look closely that ā€œstompā€ touches a micro switch when the fuel level goes low. Tells the auger to start turning.

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lol we did something like that on early machines. Now we use magnetic proximity switch, this is the actual reason the hopper is SS now, so the magnet does not stick to the wall of the hopper. So this kills two birds with one stone as the hopper is one of the components that really should be SS to combat corrosion anyways.

If you fast forward to the 5 min mark you will see the cylinder level checker. It had a switch at the end of its travel. If it could extend all the way it would trigger this switch and fire the auger motor timer. If it had fuel then it could not fully extend and then would retract and nothing would happen. Worked quite well but was way to elaborate and was subject to tars and gunk, gumming it up. Live and learn, the new sensor works quite well and the prox is outside the hopper so it can not get damaged by that harsh environment.

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