Compressing the produced gas

Yep.Yep. All what DavidB says in spades works for winter heat moderation as well as summer cooling.
10,000 pounds of combined ceramic floor tiles and concerte backer board in the kitchen/dining room floors stores a lot of heat or cool. Add in ~4,000 pound of the same in the corner wood stove iron, and it’s walls/floor ceramic tiles and concrate backer boards does the same. 6 hours winter nights caary over heat. 12 hours mid-summer carry over cooling. 2 story old farm house shape and I/we chimney up and out solar gain heat nicely for a never above 75F interior heating up.
Of couse that does require an open windows nighly chill down inside to at least 60F.
And there is the rub for most “modern” ljust this last 60 years new expectations. That your interior spaces will all be a finite regulated 72F, with dehimidification.

Randy L a now becoming classic engineering mistake is calculating oversizing the HVAC system when the roof solar gain areas are covered with PV solar or Green’Grow roofs.
These both convert the roof’s solar gain heating by converting this solar engy into instead other energy than just simple heat. Like do-all electricty!

Lived through the Mt Saint Helens electrical storms. Annual multiple near-hit lightning storms kills at least a tree or two a year within 300 feet of us. Living in the prime, easy, PNW area for the North Koreans to EPM try to shut down cheap from a fishing trawler rocket lofted blast.
Just layer your efforts a bit.
PV: have an older RV inverter stored back to back up the newer MMPT types.
Screw the newer high-tech battery banks. A fork lift lead acid battry-pac modual can be had new, or used. Learn to care for it and get 10+ years usable life. Learn lead-acids; and then if ever come an EMP event and you will be surrouned by out of fueled vehicles each with a lead acid battery most usable for 5 years.
Practical - yeas use some LED lighting. ALSO buy, circuts load desig then proof/use some incandesents too.
Ha! Even you nned a bith of seasonal heat right at the time you need the most lighting.
Don’t let EMP fears spoil your efforts. Just get smart.

Again easy ways to learn all of this first hand. A used cheap self contained motoer home has most all of these systems already onboard. Sized just right for a stand alone cabin. Including an AC system. Gutting out, restoring fuctions and repairing the system would teach you one of the most important “day-after” skills. How to “Use it up. Make do. Or do without”
Valuable guy will be the one who can repurpose out-of-fuels tech’s to be basic needs, useable.
Barterable skill-trade.

That backing up learning can start now.
Pixilated ultra-watts saving hobbiest’s wastes irreplacable time scratching thier inventive make-it-better itches.
That time could have been be better spent out planting, nurturing then work-sweat harverting more trees fuel woods. Personally Work toughend then, surpises, become mere inconvneces challenges. Fun actually.
Regards
Steve Unruh

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folks, my cabin isn’t really a cabin, it is a concrete (ferro crete) geodesic dome approx. 700 sq ft with 6in concrete walls and 4 inches of spray foam with another 3/4 in of concrete on top of that on the inside. .8 inch slab. fire place in the center of the dome so the chimney acts as the center support for the dome. heating is no problem. this baby is air tight. If I run A.C. it will be very efficient. I shot a 308 mag at it and it did not go all the way through the dome but I think it might have hit a piece of rebar. just to give ya’ll an idea of the construction.

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By the way Steve I like your attitude!!!

Glad you mentioned that… in light of that I agree, your A/C needs should be quite tolerable on woodgas. And I still think that you’ll be able to shut down and energy-coast for overnight periods, at least most of the year.

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The chimney will pull air out. I open my damper in the summer. If you can add a vent towards the top by the ceiling it would help during summer a lot. It acts like a teepee vent. I don’t know if you can do it and remain within building codes though.

You can make a pit of rocks or broken concrete and get the mass Steve is talking about. Make the top about 30" below ground level, and just circulate air through it for cooling. It is like a cheap form of geothermal, It is about the same as a basement without having one. You do need to have some sort of way to keep water out of it, or it can mold. With a chimney vent, and an fairly airtight space, and some wind, you probably don’t need a fan. There are designs all over the net for it.

Our neighbors had a geodesic shaped house back in the 70s, it was a pretty cool design. Our other friends had one of those pits, but they also reversed the flow in the winter with solar hot air panels. They opened the doors in the middle of winter with 8" of snow out because it was too hot in their house.

Steve is also correct solar panels can help shade a place, but there needs to be a gap for airflow behind them, as they do get hot.

Oh while I am thinking about it, for running solar a long way, they usually convert it to ac, or pulsed dc to run it long distances to reduce the resistance so you don’t need to have the thick cables and high voltages needed for a pure dc system. Microinverters use this principle, and they take care of some of the shading issues too. Wind has used it for years.

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I have never had air conditioning but if I did I’m sure I would need a lot of motivation to get me out of the house on days like today .

It is almost 7PM and the temp is near 100F plus the high humidity . If one spends the day out working in this heat it sure makes you sleep good at night . :relaxed:

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My wife has always wanted me to find a job down in the south. I always tell her were northerners we belong in the north… I say trust me but she just don’t listen. She has this vision of the south that it’s always 70 and sunny with 45% humidity LOL.

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She’s thinking southern Michigan.

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(and no 6" roaches err palmetto bugs)

Well RandyL you dfined out your actual woodfuel needs well now.
You have lots of onsite wood available. In a remote location you will not be occuping year round.
Exactly the same circumtances as any only seasonally used hunting/hiking/vacation cabin.
The known evoled solutions for these for engine/AC fuel will be what to work for.

Here I will shock you.
All engine fuels Are; or should be considered aging to useable, organic.
The very best long storable and flexible to use fuel is propane/Liquifued Petroleum Gas. Why? Because it can be easily compressed, heat removed, and then condnesed down into a non-corrosive energy dense liquid.
Compressed methane cannot be feasibly liquifed and strored without cryogenic $$$$ refrigeration. Same with the woodgas fuel componets.
LPG will last as long as you can keep steel tank, lines, valves intergrity. THIS is the “organic” part to it.
ONLY fosisil coal could be cheaper and longer useable fuel energy stored. It’s “organic” use downfall is using it the heat and supheric acids degradation it does to you equipment.
Long term storage of either pump gasiline, or deisels are well know and easily seachable. AT best 1-3 years fir gasiline. Dependine on the actuall desel engine 2-5 years on the deisel.
Solar as you’ve relized has an “organic” degradation to it with the hails stroms you all can get annually. Most hail damagded car I ever drove had Texas licence plates.
Micro-wind? Yeah. Will it be there functionable from annual storming and tornadoes? See . . organic.
Micro-hydro need ANNNAL floods damaged, sliting clogging maintnces. See . . .organic too.

Wood is Good; because most all events except for wildfires tend to help you get useable wood down at ground level.
Pre-cut up wood though sitting, waiting has a tendency to be four/six/eight legged bug eaten up here badly starting into it’s 2nd year. Two legged human critter packed off. Ha! Have both of these happen to me a lot up at our mountain river cabin.
And even here in the home valley by the fourth year sitting woodshed stored wood then garrantted to be so spider infested it is bite-time, injected antibiotics one person in the household at a time.
So . . . suggest you do what I do. Develope the means in equipment and experences to turn wood into shaft power. Have a limited stock of wood fuel on-hand, used, refreshed ANNAULY. Just like .22 shells stocks, canned foods, etc.
Set aside, store the means in axes, bowsaws, crosscut saws to be able to needs-must make wood fuel quietly ever come the need for that quiet-no-more-easy chainsaw fuel time.
Of course do have chainsaws too.
Ha! I’ve got three differnt sized gasoline and two diferent electric chainsaws.
But then I am know to be redundancies “three guns” anal.

Regards
Steve Unruh

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Ya’ll can correct me if I am wrong, but if I remember my physics correctly, those types of refrigerators are using a very slow evaporative process to cool a very small air space. Using a small heat source instead of compression to create an environment for the refrigerant to evaporate limits you considerably in the amount of “cold” you can make–or rather the amount of heat you can extract. We ran into a similar problem with a direct solar freezer we made back in the 80’s and again with a propane refrigerator we tried to juice up more recently. Some of our problems had to do with cycling that process. I think you would not get much cool air out of such a system. I could be wrong, I’m sure most of you know more about it than I do. Billy

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My wife is from Houston so I’ve spent a good bit of time there, and the heat is worse there than it is here in AL, but it’s not a whole lot worse sometimes. Your AC needs depend a lot on the house. My wife has a pretty nifty system of opening and closing the house—and believe it or not, lighting a wood stove in the summer to dry things out-----that helps us not need the air conditioning. Another thing that contributes to this fact is that every construction dumpster I drive by gets raided for the scrap bag of insulation cutoffs which end up in my attic. If we tear down a house or scrap a mobile home or a deep freeze or a water heater, the fiberglass all ends up in the house somewhere. Over time you get an R-50 for free. It works quite well, but everyone’s sit is dif. People lived many thousands of years before AC though. I love tech but I often wonder how many of the things we worry about now will actually be an issue when it all falls apart. I know when I have lived in different third world countries, it is amazing how fast your perspective changes on what you consider needs and what become luxuries. What’s more amazing is how fast they change back when you come home.

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I agree completely that most of what we consider necessity are not. The problem is that SWMBO is city bred and very much feels entitled to her energy sucking comforts like AC and dishwasher. two of the biggest energy wasters around.

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Hey Andy and Billy we all suject to our SHMBO’s expectations. My born and bred very contry girl gave me dictates on laundry cycling when she left this morning.
Hmmm. At least 1-2 loads a day. And only ME generating just one of those loads a week.
She does have two houses with two automatic washing machines available to her (I blame these wonderful nearly “one button” machines for this excessive “Needs”!!)
She does have two outside 30 and 40 foot long 4 and 6 lines solar cloths drying lines to use. I’ve seen these all loaded up simultaneously.
Sigh. Cloudy, wet rainiy season Nov through March these will NOT work.
Yeah. The two electric cloths dyers get the work out then. Inside rack drying here is a sure way to respiratory infections - TB, being the worst. Just too much humidity, moisture loading ups into our houses.
So trick is to not build design for a flip-switch “just like normal” woodpowered systems.
Why sould a woodgas vehicle be expected to perform just like a Dino fueled? Be happy it will work on wood.
Belive me once the Grid does go down and you are able to give her more than the in-the-dark; without power, neighbors with lighting, refrigeration and an operating machine washer you will be the Hero.

Yep.Yep. Space cooling on wood energy is a much tougher nut than space heating with wood…
Only way to cut this down to a personal woodsweat capable size would be to stay normal grid. Then with grid take-out events and a single window one-three room AC capability will get you kissed. A hurricane/tornado country scaled solution.

REgards
Steve Unruh

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This subject is worth bringing up again and unless there is sulphur, or water in the gas I can’t see much of a risk. It may energy wise not efficient…but, can’t see why it can’t be safely done

It depends on how much you are trying to compress it as it is a mixture of gases. Since it is flammable, you also have to be careful of going boom from a stray spark, which could be like the electric motor on your compressor or static electricity. Generally because of the energy input into the system to compress and the low energy density of the gas, it isn’t worth the risk.

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About the a/c issue. I was wondering if anyone had considered a peltier type cooler with a fan set up. It wouldn’t cool a whole house, but it would take a lot less electricity and possible cool a small well insulated bedroom.

There are two technologies which you might want to look at, one fares exceptionally well in hot environments, and the other in humid hot environments.

For hot places, you might want to look into solar collector concentrator arrays heating a pipe with water (or antifreeze in the winter), and part of the heat from that would go to a heat storage silo made of soilcrete/dirtcrete and isolated/insulated with aerated concrete (the bubbles make it a great insulator), and most of the heat would go into a stirling engine used for power generation (or a steam engine using a water-alcohol mix, to work better at lower-than-water-boiling temperatures). Depending on where you live, a hectar of land dedicated to solar collector concentrator arrays could generate enough electricity for AC and a fridge.

For hot humid places, mist updraft towers work even better. Though the tower/chimney would have to be as tall as possible and made out of a thermally-conductive material (i.e. metal), and wide enough for enough airflow to happen. It also needs a transparent funnel above the ground, to concentrate the hot humid air to go into the chimney. When the funnel connects to the chimney, you can have a wind turbine to generate power, and you can use pipes for passively pull air from the rooms which need cooling to close to the wind turbine.

If you cannot find a large enough pipe by itself, you could make one, or even welding together multiple smaller ones. Do keep in mind that many chimneys had either a metal tip above the brickwork, or a ceramic tip, for the very same reason of passive air current. And you can even supplement the power of the chimney by using a fire to heat the humid air, when it’s cloudy, or during the winter (especially if it snows there).

Also, since SHTF is considered, fitting your system with a gearbox and drive shaft connected to a few gearboxes with plugs for mechanical power would be usable to power devices. Using pure mechanical power to run a blender, a grains grinder, a washing machine, a fridge and so on would likely be the best, in the case of an EMP or CME (corronal mass ejection), so long as the contacts are not metal, to not arc-weld together. Adding a layer of rubber/plastic/ceramics in between the metal contacts would keep a large-enough spark from happening.

If you can get a chimney going a few meters above the tree line, and have it painted black/dark, it would produce at least some updraft, which you can use for cooling the rooms you want cooled.

Then you should also look at having a water tower, to have high-pressure tap water. You can also use the tower as a solar updraft tower, if you plan it well. And since I talked about using mechanical power, you could also use the water pressure to generate mechanical power, for your needs, if you want.

An updraft-powered water pump can be used to refill the water tower, with the excess water going into the water-powered generator to refill your batteries, or going into a lake you could use for fishing and you could funnel over the lake for the updraft tower. You can also use the mechanical power for heating (i.e. the water, either for shower or to keep it from freezing) with a water-brake windmill, and if you have water and wind, you can use ceramic evaporative coolers (and you can even make them from cement) for air conditioning, instead of having to use electricity for it. And you can throttle it depending on how much water you supply it.

Again, evaporative air conditioning would do the trick better, as long as there are air currents and the air is low humidity. And a solar chimney would create just that wind. Also, the updraft creates lower pressure, which helps condensation, up the chimney, if it’s tall enough. A normal house chimney is most likely not tall enough, thankfully, but the wind it produces can be used in low-humidity environments for evaporative cooling.

Relevant links:

https://medium.com/rockbottom/updraft-tower-chimney-the-hidden-solution-of-green-power-a172e877e2ee?k=37357768fd666484d4fd0d34c86cfac0
 "Updraft Tower/Chimney — the hidden solution of green power"
https://medium.com/rockbottom/rock-bottom-to-industrial-revolution-needed-technologies-6752f584171d
 "Rock Bottom to Industrial Revolution — Needed Technologies"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3M-GVdz1xo
 "Soil Cement - Simple & Cheap Home Application [Homemade]"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPjMMH7QzKU
 "Homemade Soil Cement Slab"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSLJCPR1Prw
 "Air Crete Machine for Under $30 (DIY)"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGlDsFAOWXc
 "Stirling Engines - the power of the future?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPg7hOxFItI
 "How does a Steam Turbine Work ?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCGVTYtJEFk
 "Solar Tower Energy in Spain, Madrid"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-P3xPdz35s
 "How It Works : drive shaft BIKE"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY-KWeYTU40
 "Pedal-powered machines created to help farming families in Guatemala"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzqJS_EJV94
 "Human Powered Machines - Can Pedals Power the World?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZwfcMSDBHs
 "How Water Towers Work"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbyL--6q7_4
 "pelton turbine"
http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2019/02/heat-your-house-with-a-water-brake-windmill.html
 "Heat your House with a Mechanical Windmill"
https://www.notechmagazine.com/2019/05/evaporative-air-conditioning.html
 "Evaporative Air Conditioning"

Please remove the limit of 2 links per post!
You’re encouraging people to split an already big post into an even bigger set of many smaller posts.

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Correct Joseph, reading some of these posts you think they were mouth pieces for big oil or big gas. Its like listening to Karens or Nervous Nellies while they shell out obediently their $3.00 plus per gallon of propane. In the late 1800s they ran the industrial revolution with Gas producers and engines that ran off coal and wood gas. Towns lighted their homes with “town gas” they used gasometers to store it. Bio digesters use flexiable gas covers to produce and store a portion of it till its compressed. I watch youtube videos of people compressing and storing it up to a year and then lighting it and it burn beautifully. Is it because an individual can easily produce gas from wood and charcol to produce his own useful gas and not have to depend on volitle high prices that change at the frequency that you change your underwear? It that why we have the chorus of you cant do it or its dangerous?? Bull crap you can build a gasometer with relief valves. You can fill a propane tank with relief valves. Yes you use relief valves just like on a compressor tank or a boiler. And you can install 2 for redundancy if you want. And a gasometer rises and falls as its filled. Yea you can conveniently compress any other gas on earth, ugh but wood gas or charcol gas heaven forbid, its impossible or its too dangerous. Bull Schitt.

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No Jeff,l its because its dangerouse for one to compress it. We are not talking about storing our problem is compressing with half ass engineered contraptions. Get tar into those compressors and you can suck air into the system. Compress air with H2 and it WILL blow up. Hydrogen embrittlement is also be big problem when using high presure.

Second is where you going to get the energy to compress the gas?? The gas energy density you get out is less than the energy required to compress the gas in the first place. So whats the point? Might as well use the energy producer you use to compress the gas for the end aplication to begin with.

Then another point how long you think a propain tank is going to last? A 40 lb tank would not run a gas grill for more than 15 minutes. Again whats the point. You could rig a blower to suppoly gas directly to that grill easier and with way less overhead.

No one here has an issue with gasometers or storeing woodgas. The point is compressing this gas is dangerouse and no one here is going to endorse something that could lead to injury or death. As for the end application its simply not worth the efforts when there are easier ways to achieve the same outcome.

In fact I am working on a system that can just that but safely and efficiently with a gasometer system.

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