Hacking The Honda Clone - small frame

Sounds like a 363.
That engine will except the 14cc clone head transplant without any modifications.
Hang onto the semi hemi heads off 363.

I might buy them off you.

If you TIG send me a PM to discuss exactly how to weld on them if you decide to make up a head of your own like mine.
There is oil in that poris casting that needs to be burned out and cleaned.

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By 363 do you mean cc. These two were the standard 212cc.

I would like to weld a head up but that would be at least a year from now.

I love clones. They just fit the bill so well for me.

Here is the 363 " hemi" and the other more common looking version.

The Hemi is nothing special as built.
It requires loads of welding and tinkering to make it flow.
I have been working at one off and on for years.

But that block with the that piston is the jewel.
Any Honda or standard clone head and cam will fit it.

SO replace that 26cc hemi with a 14cc clone head off a GX160 chinese made 5.5 hp engine and you have a huge compression increase.

This is 730 predator with its dished piston.


Still a good motor but the dowel pins are larger on it so you have to remove them and eyeball the 14cc head in position.
You loose a little compression but more importantly ( to me at least ) is the flat top works with the 14cc closed chamber head to make a nice quench area for good mixing.
This is handy in an application like this with slow burning lazy fuel.

Both styles of engine use new larger valves.

If you have access too it some of the other 208cc clones also have a nice flat top pistons that will work well with the 14cc head.
But you have to watch.

I buy a lot of engines to see what’s inside and if I do not like what I see I carefully put them back together in running order and return them.
No harm no foul…

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For Koen:

This might be Dutch.
There is not English version of this

All these modules should fit the small blocks.
What you will need to do is get a timing light and remove the flywheel and key and manualy set the wheel where it works best for you with no key.

Key is just there for assembly anyways as long as you assemble and torque correctly it will not move.

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Hi Wallace,
it look like Dänisch to me but very informative, thanks

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Right!
Koen, I can see you brought a propär keyboard :smile:

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German layout, but the typer isn’t… :grin:
But i can handle :stuck_out_tongue:

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I am looking for an programmable CDI/ECU unit, but must be affordable :wink:
Did not get reply’s from that shop on earlier postings…

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I am not sure about an ecm or programmable CDI unit.
I looked into these things for racing and felt they were too complicated and expensive

I have not sent an email to my chum about you yet
Its been a while and I may have to track down a new email.
I very seldom use Honda parts since moving onto the 70mm bore clones.
There was a flood last time we exchanged email.
The whole city suffered damage an his shop was washed out.
That was a few years ago.

Back to CDI.
Just my opinion but I would use the Honda CDI unit off a newer engine and manually set the base timing with a light.
Its not fancy but all you are going to need will be 5-10 deg of advance from around 25 btdc as your base timing.
A GX200 will quite happily pull start at 25 with no ill effects.
Once you get to 30 or 32 they get hard to pull start but run fine above 3600 on gas or methanol.
I think that is the range you want too about 30 btdc as a starting point for producer gas

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its something where i have to start with yes, on my to do list from now :stuck_out_tongue:

Here’s an interesting book. A lot of the information applies to gasOline, still good stuff…

Wallace, welders are expensive. It might be possible to cast a head. I looked at one tonight, it would not be easy. A piston would be easier. Did that in high school shop class, co project with a friend.

The storm has started tonight… :fearful:

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That looks like it could be a very useful book for more of an entry level.

Where I have heads and blocks welded its for very specific reasons.
In the case of heads its to provide enough material to alter the shape of the ports or combustion chamber for very exacting reasons…
Where I have blocks welded it to prevent them from splitting in two or more pieces.

Why I welded that G200 head casting was to create a quench ( this head had no quench for emissions reasons ).
I also wanted a smaller chamber to and the 210FA generation 3 flat top piston.

Quench and a small tight chamber speeds up burn time and improves mixing in the chamber.
The down side to a Hemi is it is very slow burning.

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I wonder if putting grooves in a head works…?

I have heard that lapping the flywheel to the crank shaft with valve grinding compound will ensure no slipping when removing the key. If the pull start is on the flywheel and timing is very advanced, pull before turning on ignition to avoid kick back which may cause flywheel to slip.

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Good morning Bruce .

I once tried the above ( without valve grinding compound ) and the flywheel didn’t stay put. I ended up cutting a new keyway slot in the flywheel to advance the time. This was on a 16 hp honda clone .

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Hi Wayne,
Not enough time to try all of these ideas. I’m so thankful for this great forum.

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Wayne:
Did you have an issue with the flywheel or were you trying to alter the timing?
I don’t know why lapping did not work for you, just bad luck.

If you were attempting to move the flywheel for more advanced timing you can use this trick part to do the same thing.
Or you can file a key. id you slice .006 off one side ( protruding ) that’s about 1 deg of timing.
The also sell offset keys that work good too!

Jeff:
I heard of that head grooving, but I have never seen it done with and no one I raced with ever talked about trying it.

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Wallace, some methods might work better for gasoline because vapors like to wash out of the air stream.

I do not think that Wayne lapped the flywheel/shaft. Maybe it works better with smaller flywheels. I don’t know BUT plan on giving it the old wood gas try… :laughing:

Hello Wallace

I wanted to advance the time more than the offset keys would allow. I think I advanced it 20-25 degrees above factory setting.

Below is a video showing the generator running from the truck gasifier.

I have used a small lawnmower motor running from wood gas and used a 4 cylinder dist for running retard or gasoline and switching to the advanced flywheel ignition on the fly.

Wish I had pictures but it was long ago before I had a camera .
The below thread talks a little about this .

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Thats a big block clone, not something I tinker work with.

BUT that Honda coil I talk about for the UT2 Honda will also work on that engine.

If you added a few deg of timing ad got to 25 I would suspect no real issues with gasoline, but it might be a little harder to start.

I am aware of that tractor pulling site.
When I started drilling and building my own carbs many of the tips I picked up from the tractor forums came in useful.

You generator sounds good on the wood gas.

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