I used a ColorTune visual kit back in the 1970’s and early 80’s on all of my hot’ed up street-sleeper sedan cars:
This was great for my SU carbureted MG’s, Volvo’s and converted Saab V-4. SU carburetors maintain across all throttle openings.
Then I went Weber carburetors. ColorTune only good for some jets and air bleeds settings.
Sorry Joni. No translation on this series.
But I think you can see well enough.
S.U.
Dang, that’s long ago that i worked on/with those/that
Nowadays i use one EGT and 1 O2 sensor per cylinder…
Yes better as able to always do continuously, across all RPM’s and loadings. And monitor remotely.
Going fuel leaner with any fuel in the IC and your exhaust gas temperatures will rise right up until you begin misfiring with an exhaust temperature plunging down.
Why the really modern electronic controllers monitor for crankshaft power stroke acceleration events and calibrated knock sensor activity.
Too the point of this topic. Too small of an active bed capacity gasifier will go engine fuel starving lean with then a bias to too much unconverted CO2.
And contrary-wise, compressed lean AF mixture burn faster. Biasing, too much faster. Too quickly. Too easily. With the suppied fuel gas too high of CO2 covering this up until a sudden no combustion, tip over point.
This and many other dynamic variables are why all good engine developers use actual engines testing to verify pre-calculated; versus achieved results.
Regards - still liking subjective visual and exhaust smell - the human element
Steve unruh
Yup, the old school way… i started with that 46 years ago… ( 12 years old , after school working as car mechanic ) dang, getting old… was 3 years old handing my first time a wrench to my father, by 6 years old, i knew any size by just looking at the nut or bolt…
remember first tastes of different oils, anti freeze, brake fluids…
12 years old, first gasifier running an old fiat 600 engine…
But still, learning and getting smarter every day… and enjoying every new bit of it…
( to ad: smarter maybe yes, but wiser ? naaa who cares ? )
Ok Joni,
I am reviewing my knowledge. I am ashamed to say I am beginning to forget things.
Here is the deal…and it’s in SAE units because all the historical data about entropy, that I have is in SAE units. It’s how old P-chem rolls…
A column of Hg(mercury) 29.92" (inches) tall supports a vacuum relative to an outside atmospheric pressure of 14.7". Conversely, when there is no vacuum, there is a column of Hg 0.0" tall.
Let’s say the piston is all the way down and at rest. Let’s also say that we are operating under adiabatic conditions…no heat lost or gained from the cylinder walls.
At this condition the volume of gas in the cylinder is at its maximum at 14.7 lbs/in^2
Use PV=nRT to find the number of moles of gas.
P= 14.7psi
V= 8.29 in^3 (cylinder volume of an Onan CCK)
n= number of moles of gas in the cylinder (moles are a chemistry unit for a quantity)
R= is a gas constant that won’t change because we are keeping the temperature constant.
T= temperature of the gas in the cylinder.
I want to compare the available gas for compression at BDC at no vacuum, and at 15" Hg vacuum. If R and T are the same for each condition, then I am going to leave them in variable form, so…
(14.7lbs/in^2)•(8.29in^3)=nRT or
~121.88 lbs•in (RT)
With 15" of vacuum
(7.367lbs/in^2)•(8.29in^3)=nRT or
~61.07lbs•in (RT)
This shows that a vacuum gauge installed below the throttle plate will indicate a direct linear relationship between the vacuum reading and how much gas is available for compression at BDC.
This reading is actual volumetric efficiency, not some armchair formula.
Now I am curious what my vacuum reading would be under full load with the generator.
With vehicles I have gotten the needle to peg on the 0" mark before.
Why all this? Because I should be able to calculate the turbulent flame speed of a half charge of gas compressed 5.5:1.
I suppose if one fills in the units it will also show exactly how much gas is needed for each cycle.
Hmm.
I hesitiate to say this for a number of reasons.
You are good so far BruceJ.
You will need to decide, and add at least two more constants to get realistic end results.
The suction works drag on the engine pulling thru the gasifier and filter train. You will never get your zeroed out vacuum.
VesaM uses a 10% deduct for this.
He uses basically a use evolved chart of air and gasoline use compared to air and woodgas in his one page chart. 1000 to 8000cc engines. 1500rpm to 4000 rpm in 500 rpm steps.
He uses a cylinder filling temp of 30C for gasoline. 50C for his reheated woodgas.
Going across a 2000cc engine at 3000 rpm comes out to ~93 cubic meters needed a minute.
Eight other constants in his formula, over and above theses two added.
This chart has been working out well for me since 2011. I make it work for sub-1000cc engines by IC wastes heats adding into the system imputs. No perpetual “free” energy to this. Just using what others are choosing to blow away. Close coupled stationary allows a whole other level of game.
I say more and I always get accused of “selling” Vesa’s book. Even this said will probably generate a few hate e-mails and PM’s.
Grumps! I live on a corner of the DIY efforts with too many Grumps.
And then the Arrogant’s! Only using what they have genius’ed, out.
You, KVL, and Joni are also book readers. Good. I get lonely.
S.U.
I read Vesa. Kaup, but best of all Ricardo! Written during the time when engines were only using producer gas (made with coal, haha).
Steve, the exercise was more to prove what is not needed, Like formulas, and lots of ivory tower contemplation!
Jim Mason was beating that drum for years with his free manometer offer.
Don’t knock the free manometer from Jim Mason. I got one of his and it still sits in my shop for calibration of electronic sensor systems.
U also learned a LOT about measurement from their “Kitchen Sink” Arduino system. For better or for worse, that’s what got me into “Arduino” in the first place and got me connected with a whole new circle of great friends.
One thing I might add about a U tube manometer: red food coloring stains the vynyl tubing that I originally used. Even though water is a bit harder to see, I’d stick with that.
Hi All,
Just my two cents about ethanol. I like it. Here the altitude is about one mile above sea level. Engines weren’t designed for this altitude. Old carbureted stuff is usually filthy. People didn’t change to smaller jets like they should have for whatever reason. A bunch of times I’ve poured a slug of e85 in a tank, let it soak for a day or two, and then started it up somehow. Usually with a rag soaked in fuel stuffed in the intake. It will usually continue to run with a little bit of choke. Once I have it running that way I’ll let it run for a few minutes adjusting the choke as needed. Then I’ll add small amounts of ordinary 85 octane gasoline until it runs good without the choke. After that I blend fuel so that it contains ~25% ethanol. At this altitude with 25% ethanol the mixture and power levels, fuel economy, and perhaps other factors I’m not aware of, become very close to what manufacturers advertise. Here is a page from the log book for my 1991 Ranger 2.3L. Dips in fuel economy that you can see are because of below zero weather. Spikes are calculation errors, due to someone borrowing the truck, adding a little fuel, and not remembering how much. Column headings are: date, gallons, ethanol content, odometer, miles per gallon.
Rindert
The other thing that will lean the mixture in a carburetor is that ethanol is thicker. When I was making 5 gallons/day of 160+ proof and converted my 1970 E300 Ford van with 351 engine to run on it. The carb jets had to be drilled out.
Joni if you are reading all of this you will see two approaches to your question.
The first using that reposted GenGas table and an actually Imbert factory one required calculating an engines volume pumping ability and then giving half that volume over to wood/producer gas.
The other way is that the engine DID use gasoline. Then using an energy approach gasoline to wood/producer gas base starting point equivalency.
So why us talking about lower energy true experienced used fuels like alcohol blends.
In my opinion neither approach is superior. They both will work.
Both approach’s still requires gasifier system adjustments “tuning” to optimize.
Hey BruceJ thanks for the SirHarryR elbow bump. I just ordered in a used copy of Lyle Cummins, “Internal Fire: The Internal Combustion Engine 1673-1900”
One that Microcogen’s Mobile Bob kept recommending.
Ha! Ha! Five book gone sent out from my stacks this last Christmas. So a new snuck in should fly under the wifies radar.
S.U.
Hi Michael. I remember when Mother Earth News was big on Alcohol that they needed to run their fuel through a pre-heater before it hit the carb. 5 gallons a day is a pretty good run. I’d certainly be interested in what you were using for feed stock.
The last few small engine machines I bought; a log splitter and snow blower required the use of non-ethanol fuel or the addition of some kind of ethanol converter. Not a problem because a I live near a lot of lakes and apparently boats need non-ethanol as well so most stations have a 90 octane pump of it. I find my chainsaw run better on it as well.
Tom H; Yes Tom I have had MUCH better performance and less problems since I stopped using ethanol added petro in the equipment around the farm, BUT---- Dam it is expensive. TomC
About a buck a gallon more here too Tom. I’m betting the Europeans don’t even know what we are talking about. I’m guessing that the gasoline stores the government maintains are non-ethanol as well.
160 proof is like 80%. That’s interesting to me because it means there had to be 20% water. I guess it took the engine longer to warm up?
Sooo, how much water could be used? I can imagine a vehicle engine management system that would control the ratio of water to alcohol to optimize fuel economy and performance in a wide variety of conditions. This would probably be very economical and low pollution. It makes me wonder. Does anyone else think these things?
Rindert
Well since BruceJ. mentioned engines on the old coal gas plants; I and Rindert mentioned engines on ethanol alcohol mixes; now MichaelG. on straight alcohol . . . .
how about turpentine (made from trees):
He runs four different engines on this canned turpentine. Two different flat heads, one his clear head engine in slow motion; one an OHV fuel injected generator; one a heavy vehicle V-8.
Only this time I am not telling the time stamp on the clear head.
Enjoy. And no longer wonder just How the Japanese military fueled their last years of WWII aircraft.
S.U.
Ha, I understand what you are talking about, in a country with a surplus of agricultural production, refueling moonshine in a car’s tank will not surprise anyone … Moreover, in Ukraine, at the legislative level, norms for gasoline intended for old cars and agricultural vehicles with gasoline engines are prescribed. We call such gasoline as motor fuel, it does not even smell like gasoline (rather vodka), has a 25% lower price and is green. Engines on this fuel work but poorly …
What does surprice me though is that anyone considered it worth the effort with US gasoline prices. A lot more work than using wood for fuel.
Most households here used to have a destiller, but I doubt anyone poured alcohol into their fuel tank, despite high gasoline prices. Wayne mentioned the other day he doesn’t like burning anything edible. We don’t like burning anything drinkable 
I had a subscription to Mother Earth News MEN, and scaled up their ethanol system. I was able to buy 1 ton loads of salvaged corn and wheat from the storage terminals. This had minor amounts of gravel which caused issues with the grinder/mill I used.
This was in the 80s when gas price jumped from $0.35 to $0.75. I found that not counting the hours of my time it cost about $1 gallon to make. The neighbors cows really loved the spent mash!
Pretty much why I never explored it much Michael. I couldn’t grow enough corn to make it self sufficient and corn and wheat are not real big crops here. I did consider sugar beets. They grow tons of them on the east side of the state. Anyway at least you were making you own fuel even if it wasn’t cost effective. There are some freedoms that can’t be determined by dollar value. Now I have to go research what it takes to make turpentine. I’m too old to plant pine trees if that’s part of it.
