Mercedes-Benz E230 vol. 2, charcoal powered

JO, condensation is likely. But l dont quite get it, its a sealed fuel tank system???

Well l was wery pleased with performance, the mistake was all mine. Fixing it wuld only be temporairy, modifying wuld require more time thain building a new one.

Well l plan on retaining the shape of the hearth more of less, with restriction and all. Will see…

Bob, l have. I have no dubt his system will work and only tears shed will be those of joy. But l am personaly not a fan of cooling the nozzles. By coolng them you are stealig heat from the gasifier and even if the heat is used to make steam, there are heat sorces that provide actualy free energy.

The flute works flawlessly as a updraft, but l have no idea how it will s a downdraft. This system will probably have less air preheat, l want to keep nozzles cool.

This projectis kind of a experiment to see how fast and simple can a useable downdraft be made.

Tom, Eddy tryed but gave up :smile: the hearth looks kinda like a hybrid between a lmbert and a WK, quite simple. But the way gas and air ways are interacted is way too complicated for us to be able to draw accuretly jast by description and sceches. If you like l can video it thugh.

There will be two oposite flutes about 6" apart faceing each other.

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Please do. Or at least some pictures.
Jakob

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Hi Kristijan, if you want to keep the nozzles cool it would make sense to use some of the heat that is of excessive in the gasifier and that causes problems of slag. Then add the exhaust preheated air back in to the gasifier. It is like the saying goes, robbing Peter to pay Paul. You get free hot steam out of the trade off and your nozzles are protected.
Of course if using the tungsten nozzles, which seem to be a durable material when it comes to high heat or mass of steel nozzles seem to be working well also. The balancing act of heat in the gasifier is the key.
Bob

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This probably didn’t happen over night. The empty space in the fueltank is always replaced with air no matter how sealed it is. Normally small amounts of condensation is mixed with the ethanol part of the fuel and doesn’t cause a problem. However running wood/char in a cold conditions and not consuming much liquid fuel, condensation could add up (speculating again).

My head is spinning of flute theories :smile:
Thinking about what flute and WK have in common:
MASS around the blowholes. CONDUCTIVITY.
Just saying, not to lock our minds into a corner of what a flute looks like :thinking:

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I suspect the “kid factor”…

Amazing what will seem like a good idea to little ones…

Maybe someone overheard adding water to fuel increases efficiency… :wink:

I can’t see how that quantity of water could accumulate in a tank gradually without manifesting as a problem sooner.

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You mean like throwing cell phones in the swimming pool?

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Kristjan
How high up is the fuel pump in the tank? Is it high enough to allow that much water to collect under the gas without the water getting to the fuel pump intake?

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Jan, exactly my thinking on the flute nozzle. Enough mass to conduct the heat away from the destruction zone while not wasteing it, like a WK.

Don and Garry, indeed, kids seem to like water :smile: however the cap on the fuel tank is so stiff even wife cant open it. It has to be, its a pressurised fuel tank.

Thinking about it, l think lknow what appened. I had no problem starting the car every day but if it sit for a day or more it wuldnt start. I think while runing, the pump and return line emulsified the water and siting for a long time alowed te water to separate.

Jakob, the thing is this system hes a externel fuel pump. The fuel tank is just a canister with outlet on its lowest part. It only has a fuel level flloat and a mesh inside.

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Ok, so likely water contaminated fuel from a fuel station?

I can’t see that degree of condensation, especially in your mild climate.

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I agree on the water contamination fuel from a station, it has happened to me. You will not notice for a couple of days after the vehicle has sat not running. I would put some heet gas treatment in it to clean it out.
Bob

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This is why I try to never put gasoline in when the fuel tanker is delivering fuel at the station, it stirs everything at the bottom of the storage tanks.

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Hi Kristijan,
sorry for the problems with you gasifier but great to see you developing it further!
On my computer, I could barely understand what you were talking about as the speakers are not good, but from whait I see I understand that the restriction above the nozzles is the damaged part, right?
Everything else is still good in shape?

So, why not just remove the restriction between nozzles and hopper?

Another suggestion: Have you thought about something like the Svedlund-design with a nozzle pointing downwards? Probably combined with an “umbrella” to prevent direct contact of glowing char with the nozzle as Max Gasman suggested it:

Based on this, I made a scetch some time ago for what I was planning for the Land-Rover:


Well, life kept me busy so I haven’t started yet and I cannot present any experiences about this nozzle design yet, but I think it is worth a try.

Anyway, I’m also curious how a flute nozzle will behave in a downdraft system.

Please keep us informed and keep on with this very interesting project!

Regards,
Til

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Hi Til.

I am sorry, it seems te blame is on me. I didnt wach the video prior to upload, sound is real bad.

Yes the top restriction is the only dameged part but its made of 4 lair of sheet steel, air circulates in to keep it cool. Cant just cut it out becouse it is there to keep the heat from rising in the hopper and reneewing it wuld be more complicated thain making a new gasifier.

Well there is a big limitation l have vs most people. I need to fit a horse in a dog house, if you know what l mean. The gasifier must fit in a compartment of 60x30x27cm. Not enough room for any clasical design so l have to experiment with different styles.

Regarding the bell nozzle, l am afraid l see some problems with it. I hope not to discourage you from trying, but the thing is in suc extreme heat most of it is radiated rather thain conducted. A few cm of space between the nozzle and charcoal will not reduce radition much… but like l sayd, its just my thods!

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Hi Kristijan , its a shame you have to rebuild , but at least thats how we get to make better systems ( fingers crossed )
You mention that the nozzles were too high and so heat was rising upwards ,how high above the restriction were your nozzles then ?
Dave

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Hi Dave. Exactly. This is the first system l built l was 100% satisfyed ith performance, pitty it got ruined. Learning from mistakes.

Not sure. I hink it was 15cm, and 6cm from nozzles to top restriction. Too litle.

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Thanks Kristijan it helps my mind work out better seeing your drawing .
I am at the beginning stage of building a simple downdraft and playing with designs in my head and idea’s supplied by every post i have ever read ,i may even try with 3 nozzles above a restriction and grate like yours , but being a static unit i will have a lot more height and depth to play with and will only be running engines up too around 500cc .
Dave

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Hi Kristijan,
thanks a lot for your answer.
I always enjoy looking at your solutions and I’m curious which new features you may find.
I just want to try the bell nozzle, as Max really promoted it again and again. In the end, I will see how it works.

If I have seen it right, you plan to fit two flute-nozzles opposite to each other. Are you planning to place the holes sidewards or downwards?
The flute nozzles is a very clever and so simple solution, I’m really looking forward to see it an a downdraft gasifier.
Til

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Isopropyl alcohol works ok too, but not with 1/2 gallon. Occasionally we see that happen here. Underground fuel tanks at gas stations. Or a truck gets contaminated etc. Once we had a contaminated pipeline with lots of water in it. I think that was after Katrina hit New Orleans. It’s hard on a gas station when that happens. They lose all their business for years.

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I once had an old car that would get water in the tank if I drove it when it was raining very hard. This would not happen if it was a light rain or snow and it would not happen if I did not drive. Finally I discovered that a rubber fitting in the fuel filler neck was old and cracked. I replaced it and no more problems.
Rindert

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