I think the well pump draws around 10a normally so that would be 2200w plus a starter surge of 2-3x, and 10kwh starts to look kind of small.
However, I think you are a correct. Add batteries to cover surges, and run the generator to refill the power bank. Which I believe is automagically done with the solar grid-tie inverters now. It is just pricey.
The silverado RST has a package for vehicle to home that can output 10kwh from the vehicles 200kwh battery pack. If you can use the whole pack, it is equivalent to 20hrs of the 10kwh generator output. Ironically it is cheaper to buy the truck and install the system, then to install the 13 Tesla powerwalls for the equivalent battery capacity.
Ford has a similar system for their truck. Both allow additional ‘garage’ storage to be added along with solar integration, and solar can pay for itself over several years.
However, I agree with Steve in that it definitely isn’t inexpensive at this point. But the prices should come down.
The inverter generator has a really nice compression release—it’s not bad at all for a 322 cc engine. Part of the family has tried the electric starter, but I need to run everyone through the full process, including pulling the rope. We have ways to keep batteries charged, but an
external battery cable would be a useful addition. Thanks for the inspiration.
I’m blessed to have supportive family. I’m not the only one watching the “horizon.” But you are right, there’s nothing like a power failure to motivate action and appreciation. With only one inverter generator, I can’t switch another generator in or out, but the solar inverter-charger let’s me do something similar. I can switch from grid to inverter/batteries to generator and back without resetting the microwave (or annoying anyone). When loads are likely to be low, run the inverter/batteries, then recharge batteries along with larger loads.
There’s no way to compete with grid power, when you live in the land of hydro. The price is wonderful, so the payback period on anything else is way out there somewhere. It’s wonderful, while it lasts.
Great minds think alike. Lesser minds like me benefit.
Our well pump is similar: about 9 amps, 1.9 kW (I forget the power factor). The 7.1 kW starting/5.7 kW running, inverter generator, the old Onan 4 kW generator, and the 4 kW inverter/batteries all will start it without problems. The inverter is pretty serious (and pricey, as you say). I think it has almost a factor of 2 surge capacity. It’s tough to figure out in advance exactly what will work and what won’t. Better (and more fun) to just plug it in and see what happens. Maybe have a fire extinguisher handy.
I’ve been looking into soft start capacitors for the Air Conditioning and Well here at the house. For inside I was thinking of a battery bank and inverter just to run the fridges. Would be nice to have a total battery and inverter backup system for the home and just use an engine to charge up the batteries. It would need to be a really stout system for our big Trane units.
Kent is there a way to supplement the surge capacity of a traditional generator to accommodate the wattage requirements to start a well pump if the generator barely can start the pump on its on and sometimes not?
There are soft-start circuits that can reduce the current needed to start the pump. Also, some inverters can supplement a generator’s power with “inverted” battery power when needed. I don’t have any personal experience with either of these, though I think our inverter has the capability.
Hi Steve , I have a couple of packs of " Maxwell super capacitors " i use them for starting
the trucks or cars and also for surge on a 12 volt inverter i use ,there is a guy over here that brings them in from China , i think they were used in Trains , anyway he makes packs for 12 volt inverters and 48 volt packs and a lot of the people here use them for water pumps and compressors that run off inverters and engine starter , they will easily start a 6 liter diesel engine truck .
Have a look over your way see if anyone there is also bringing them in pretty cheap here for what they will do .
Dave
Kent, if you have an air compressor, especially a gas powered one, you might look at using an air motor for starting generators. Compressed air is inefficient in terms of energy conversion but it is awesome for a surge of mechanical power and given the short time of use… efficiency doesn’t matter.
An electric drill makes for a nice electric starter as well. You might put something on the starter mechanism that allows for both an electric drill and/or air ratchet to engage the pull start. That maximizes your options. The last thing you want is something that relies on specific batteries to start the generator and finding them flat.
Unfortunately I can’t see a practical way to “air assist” a well pump motor. In that case you just need surge current capability and putting a battery-inverter in there is the obvious answer vs a bigger generator. A bigger flywheel on the generator is my one other thought if you just need a few more amps. I wouldn’t push it too far - you could smoke your windings and end up in a world of hurt.
Hey KentP. another aspect I had to deal with back on the old place for decades was the fact it was 67 acres remains of an old 120 acres dairy farm three sides wrapped by paved public roads.
That meant it had been easier in the past cheap-power decades to just set up another Grid power-pole and meter to a need.
Once was five meter head inputs.
We got it cut down to three. These power inputs distances spread out from the outsides inwards.
Interior wise it was hundreds of feet between needs, like the well; the old big barn; the four other outbuildings and the two small houses. With few interior power lines.
Lots of buried personal water lines, yes.
Cut back to just true minimal electrical power needs that say 10kW would of had to be distance split up at least three ways and spread out to different locations.
Actually needed three different generators; or three battery banks; with then three separate charging-control arrays.
Them separated, adjacent to paved roads would have been irrestisable theft magnets.
This new place the three power needs are all undergone 240VAC wired from a single input source location. Our house.
Steve unruh
You don’t want to have an under current/under voltage situation, you will burn your pump motor out in no time.
Here is a explanation of the difference between soft starters and variable frequency drives, both are available for well pumps.
Another option is a whole house management system, there are a couple of systems on the market, and they are getting smarter so they can prioritize loads. Ford has the ‘home integration system’(sunrun span i think). GM is coming out with a similar concept later this year.
These are the only good ones I’ve found so far. MicroAir makes them. Very good for solid state inverter tech that doesn’t like surge loads… extends the life of your inverter significantly.
Alternatively put in mini-splits, which are already inverter based and soft starting.
Just today we were discussing softstarters again and how useless they are unless they regulate three phases. Most of them control two phases, so in IMHO the right place for a softstarter is the garbage bin. The price of a 3-phase regulated softstarter is almost the same as VFD… check please before you run and think a softstarter will solve your problem.
And Ecoflow is only for rich people, almost the same price as a Tesla powerwall, overpriced XXL. Even Victron is cheaper then this. Batteries should be around 200-300 €/kWh, hybrid inverter 12k around €2000. For the same system I am willing to pay €3000, not €11.000…
Thanks to all for your input on the well pump surge solutions. Due to the potential trouble and cost, I think it would be better for me to either somehow reduce the load or get a larger generator.
definitely, it isn’t inexpensive. It just had a good description, in that particular ad of what the control system does. The main feature is you can program it to prioritize loads, rather then just on/off. So if your welding the garage, it won’t kick off the power until say the well pump kicks on. And I assume it restores power once the pump kicks off again. It seems like a really nice feature.
Top brands all can do. I am working on a Victron peakshaving system. Top, but expensive. Just ordered a Sun Deye 12 k. I think it does the same for a few 100 less and 16 k solar inverter build in. To be contuined.
Another question (I have lots). Our daughter and son-in-law have acquired an older travel trailer, and are fixing it up. It has a Carrier Air V air conditioner, 120 v, 12.8 amp rated. Anyone have experience or an educated guess about how big an inverter or conventional generator it will take to start this A/C?
Ive ran mine on the Predator 4375 genny running on gasoline. However, you will need twice the generator size to run on wood gas / char gas and it will be marginal at best. I think I had to run mine in a " low" setting.
Pump to a holding tank and use a 12 volt RV pump for your supply. Run your well pump direct off your generator without any other loads, fill your tank. Then its off until you need to refill. Then when you use the 12 volt system it doesnt make a dent into your off grid stored power.
Just today we were discussing softstarters again and how useless they are unless they regulate three phases. Most of them control two phases, so in IMHO the right place for a softstarter is the garbage bin. The price of a 3-phase regulated softstarter is almost the same as VFD… check please before you run and think a softstarter will solve your problem.