# Working toward food self sufficiency
**URL:** http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/working-toward-food-self-sufficiency/7226
**Category:** Homesteading
**Created:** [March 24, 2023, 10:03am UTC](http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/working-toward-food-self-sufficiency/7226 "2023-03-24T10:03:19Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 12
### Author:  [@JohanM](http://forum.driveonwood.com/u/JohanM)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2023, 3:25pm UTC](http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/working-toward-food-self-sufficiency/7226/221 "2023-08-19T15:25:14Z")
> [@KristijanL](#):
>
> Spores are tiny and travel far and in great numbers. If they have good conditions they will take root no matter how far apart the plants are.
> [@SteveUnruh](#):
>
> Wider spacing does help. Trying to keep the branch and leaf foliage trimmed up as TomH described helps.
> The spores are somewhat airborne. But especially get in the ground, then come upwards carried by evaporative water mists. Water wasteful flood irrigations - NO spraying/misting - helps the most.
Yes, what I am aiming for is to remove those favourable conditions by spacing out a bit. Our potatoes are spaced the same as yours Kristijan so perhaps there was not much to do. It is nice to have them a foot apart too to keep weeds down.
> [@SteveUnruh](#):
>
> to plant more carrots, different variety of edible beets (my favorite the mild yellows) and parsnips - whitloaf for our own local grown carbohydrates.
Carrots, parsnips and swedes didn’t happen for us this year unfortunately, we decided not to and have regretted that decision the whole summer.
And yes, it is hard to change what you like. It does work but it is hard.
---
### Author:  [@SteveUnruh](http://forum.driveonwood.com/u/SteveUnruh)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2023, 4:44pm UTC](http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/working-toward-food-self-sufficiency/7226/222 "2023-08-19T16:44:27Z")
Ah. There you go: carrots, parsnips, “swedes” (beets, yes?) and potatoes would have made Four.
All four make it and glorious. Three of the four make it and still great. Only two make it and you will carry through. Barely good-enough.
One? If you do not starve, you will have severe nutrient trace lacks heath problems within three months.
I am infamous for insisting on alway having three of anything really needed. I actually work hard and live this. To always have at least one come bad times. My only exception is having one wife.
Good times . . . always then one for me; one for you, one available for social-charity.
One of my most important books is “Passport To Survival”. It is an L.D.S./Morman all-families food basic recipes food book. Their four insisted-on basics years long storage are: whole kernel wheat; bees honey; dried powered milk; and salt.
From these with year around foraged supplementing an LDS family could carry through for years.
Marcus Norman and family visiting told me we did not have to just depend on our chickens, and local lakes and streams fish. With a supplemental quietly poached deer.
Go for the local beaver, raccoons too! Makes Four!
JohanM. that vehicle wheel or industrial big wheel/flywheel held on by one-nut . . . ??? Crazy.
The older French and German Smart cars with their only three wheel lug nuts? Lose the use of one and you will loose that wheel soon, guaranteed.
Some things three is not enough spread out security. Lose one and you have more than a 33% loss. Undistributed force inbalances will wipe you out.
All wheels should have at least four lugs and nuts. Lose one and it actually is only a 25% loss.
Basic calories foods need to be done in fours also.
S.U.
---
### Author:  [@Jan](http://forum.driveonwood.com/u/Jan)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2023, 4:53pm UTC](http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/working-toward-food-self-sufficiency/7226/223 "2023-08-19T16:53:39Z")
Tom, I have the same problem with your climate, I tried a tomato plant outside, it didn’t do so well here, carrots and swedes are growing quite well, and the compost seems to be working, it’s warm inside, thanks Marcus.
---
### Author:  [@JohanM](http://forum.driveonwood.com/u/JohanM)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2023, 5:31pm UTC](http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/working-toward-food-self-sufficiency/7226/224 "2023-08-19T17:31:16Z")
> [@SteveUnruh](#):
>
> “swedes” (beets, yes?
Swedes are called rutabaga in america, I could have written that instead but it slipped my mind.
> [@SteveUnruh](#):
>
> One of my most important books is “Passport to Freedom”. It is an L.D.S./Morman all-families food basic recipes food book
I skimmed through LDS very very thick end of days/self sufficience book (I can’t think of the name of it right now) listed the things you should have at home at all times and it was an astonishing amount of different food supplies to manage a normal family for at least a year.
Hunting is also a way of getting a lot of protein fast as you/Marcus say
I like the analogy with the wheel nuts, always have your risks spread out. The more varietys the better.
---
### Author:  [@JohanM](http://forum.driveonwood.com/u/JohanM)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2023, 5:33pm UTC](http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/working-toward-food-self-sufficiency/7226/225 "2023-08-19T17:33:23Z")
I saw your garden when me and J-O visited you and it is beautiful and well taken care of 😊
---
### Author:  [@SteveUnruh](http://forum.driveonwood.com/u/SteveUnruh)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2023, 6:18pm UTC](http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/working-toward-food-self-sufficiency/7226/226 "2023-08-19T18:18:22Z")
Apologies. My memory served me wrong this time. I edit corrected above. The book is:
“Passport To Survival” by Esther Dickey; copyright 1969; Bookcraft/Random House publishers.
S.U.
---
### Author:  [@Norman89](http://forum.driveonwood.com/u/Norman89)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2023, 8:23pm UTC](http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/working-toward-food-self-sufficiency/7226/227 "2023-08-19T20:23:01Z")
> [@SteveUnruh](#):
>
> Lose one and you have more than a 33% loss. Undistributed force inbalances will wipe you out.
I’m feeling a little targeted there Steve 🤣
---
### Author:  [@ForbiddenTuna](http://forum.driveonwood.com/u/ForbiddenTuna)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2023, 9:13pm UTC](http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/working-toward-food-self-sufficiency/7226/228 "2023-08-19T21:13:12Z")
Wider spacing between rows also makes them more resistant to drought. This is true for any plant. I space my plants about 3 feet between minimum for the rows in areas I can’t set up a sprinkler. The corn and other wind pollinated plants don’t enjoy it as much because it lowers chances to pollinate.
---
### Author:  [@MikeR](http://forum.driveonwood.com/u/MikeR)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2023, 12:14am UTC](http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/working-toward-food-self-sufficiency/7226/229 "2023-08-20T00:14:42Z")
Steve, and all,
That book is available to read and/or download in the internet archives.
> **[Passport To Survival Esther Dickey 1969 : esther dickey : Free Download,...](https://archive.org/details/PassportToSurvivalEstherDickey1969/page/n7/mode/1up)**
>
> Mormon survival tips, based around canning and wheat
I am starting to read it, having downloaded the pdf. also available in text only. (much smaller file size).
---
### Author:  [@JohanM](http://forum.driveonwood.com/u/JohanM)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2023, 4:37am UTC](http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/working-toward-food-self-sufficiency/7226/230 "2023-08-20T04:37:30Z")
> [@SteveUnruh](#):
>
> Passport To Survival” by Esther Dickey
I looked it up and read reviews and people are happy with the book and amazed how much to do with those four staples.
> [@MikeR](#):
>
> Steve, and all,
> That book is available to read and/or download in the internet archives.
Thank you Mike, free is hard to resist even though I do like to physically hold a book when reading. 😃
---
### Author:  [@Jan](http://forum.driveonwood.com/u/Jan)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2023, 6:21am UTC](http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/working-toward-food-self-sufficiency/7226/231 "2023-08-20T06:21:18Z")
Have any of you made apple cider?
Is it easy and tastes good, can I make an apple press?
---
### Author:  [@ForbiddenTuna](http://forum.driveonwood.com/u/ForbiddenTuna)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2023, 3:35pm UTC](http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/working-toward-food-self-sufficiency/7226/232 "2023-08-20T15:35:41Z")
Jan I think it would be fairly easy to make an apple press.
Matthias Wandel on YouTube known as Woodgears has an apple shredder to chunk down the apples before pressing.
[ ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlkQly2T-Wc)
I would core out the apples before pressing or shredding, and you could make apple cider vinegar from the cores.
> **[Building an apple grinder](https://woodgears.ca/cider/apple_grinder.html)**
---
### Author:  [@JohanM](http://forum.driveonwood.com/u/JohanM)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2023, 3:56pm UTC](http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/working-toward-food-self-sufficiency/7226/233 "2023-08-20T15:56:29Z")
Jan, I believe @KristijanL has made quite a bit of apple cider if I remember correctly. I read it in the all about brewing thread
[All About Brewing](http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/all-about-brewing/4306)
However, there was not much said about cider making more than the mentioning that it was made.
Edit: I have also been wanting to make cider but as I understand it most cider is made from tart apples and I don’t have any of those. My grandfather was grafting some appletrees here on the farm and I am also keeping up that tradition so we are starting to have many appletrees here so perhaps I should graft some tart ciderapples too.
---
### Author:  [@JohanM](http://forum.driveonwood.com/u/JohanM)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2023, 4:21pm UTC](http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/working-toward-food-self-sufficiency/7226/234 "2023-08-20T16:21:04Z")
> [@ForbiddenTuna](#):
>
> Wider spacing between rows also makes them more resistant to drought. This is true for any plant. I space my plants about 3 feet between minimum for the rows in areas I can’t set up a sprinkler.
Don’t you get more weed pressure with more space between the rows?
---
### Author:  [@Jan](http://forum.driveonwood.com/u/Jan)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2023, 4:37pm UTC](http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/working-toward-food-self-sufficiency/7226/235 "2023-08-20T16:37:35Z")
My wife thinks I’m weird (well not just her) but I don’t like the fact that so many apples go to waste every fall.
As far as I understand, you can make cider from all apples.
---
### Author:  [@Bobmac](http://forum.driveonwood.com/u/Bobmac)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2023, 4:45pm UTC](http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/working-toward-food-self-sufficiency/7226/236 "2023-08-20T16:45:48Z")
Yes this true any apple will make cider, the sweeter the Apple the sweeter the cider. Here where I live we have lots of apple, pear, cherry, apricot, peach, orchards and grapes. Making pear cider is good one too.
---
### Author:  [@JohanM](http://forum.driveonwood.com/u/JohanM)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2023, 6:29pm UTC](http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/working-toward-food-self-sufficiency/7226/237 "2023-08-20T18:29:56Z")
> [@Jan](#):
>
> As far as I understand, you can make cider from all apples.
> [@Bobmac](#):
>
> Yes this true any apple will make cider, the sweeter the Apple the sweeter the cider.
Well, then I don’t know what is keeping me from that anymore, I like both the tart ciders and the sweet ones too.
It seems I got myself yet another project 😄
---
### Author:  [@KristijanL](http://forum.driveonwood.com/u/KristijanL)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2023, 3:47am UTC](http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/working-toward-food-self-sufficiency/7226/238 "2023-08-21T03:47:28Z")
I have been summoned 😄 yes, we used to make a lot, over 1000l a year if the harvest was good.
Indeed, tart, even wild ungrafted (crabaples) ones make best cider. The acids and tannins are preservatives and make clear, stable cider.
Sweet apples will not make sweeter cider, the sugar just turns to more alcohol. We did this but this cider has a shorter life span and once the sugar is fermented, since they are low on acid, the flavour is kinda empty. Also it turns brown in air fast (like an apple) because the lack of preserving acids.
---
### Author:  [@Bobmac](http://forum.driveonwood.com/u/Bobmac)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2023, 4:18am UTC](http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/working-toward-food-self-sufficiency/7226/239 "2023-08-21T04:18:04Z")
> [@KristijanL](#):
>
> The acids and tannins are preservatives and make clear, stable cider.
Oh you guys are talking about hard cider, not just apple juice cider. Well then a more tart apples are better for this kind of cider. Here we call fresh pressed unfiltered a cider also.
---
### Author:  [@JohanM](http://forum.driveonwood.com/u/JohanM)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2023, 6:32am UTC](http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/working-toward-food-self-sufficiency/7226/240 "2023-08-21T06:32:52Z")
Yes, hard cider is what I was talking about Bob. I did not know that you guys in the US said cider about applejuice.
Would you mind telling us your procedure Kristijan, if you add things, timings, your steps essentially? And anyone else that wants to share of course.
I understand if you don’t want to write it down as in being a hassle (or perhaps even a secret 😀).
[Previous page](http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/working-toward-food-self-sufficiency/7226.md?page=11)
[Next page](http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/working-toward-food-self-sufficiency/7226.md?page=13)