Building a Hybrid electric-charcoal

Making its own topic for this one

spacing it on the frame.

The electric motor is 60 Volts DC, 1200 watts
Waiting for another pwm regulator for the alternator
Gasifier will be adjusted for 3 KwH output max
Able to drive when batteries are empty and charge them simultanious
Will have inverter to 220V 3000 watts on board for home and field apliances (deep well pumping and electric chainsaw)

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A Toyota Prius (ala Koen) on wood gas. :joy:
Great idea, constant load on the gen-set??
Extra large PWM on the accelerator??
Regenerative braking??
Solar cell on the roof??

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More a Chevy volt then a primus I think. I like it Koen. I think that is the future for Woodgas vehicles electric vehicle no range anxiety and back up power to boot…

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I’m sure you are right David. I only know Prius tech.

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Yup, constant load, rpm depended, adjustable amps if required, using an PWM on the field from the alternator.
Also will try to have the exhaust gas return connected this time, waiting for a pid controller to have it automated.
I want to gather some real useful data …

At the end, its all about making things work. The simple way.

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This could be of interest.
You can use a more efficient higher voltage system.

This version uses a load sensing system as a fuel saver.

This makes life a lot simpler.
The kit can be bolted to a standard clone, modified for for a producer gas plant.
But what is the shaft size?
My guess being an indigenous Chinese design this uses a 20mm output shaft.

The stator is wound in a simple Delta config.
A smart guy could rewind this into what ever he likes…

This could be a very good place to start if you want to build your own using a wood gas generator/battery/inverter system with an Arduino to regulate the generator RPM and power output.

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Opps I screwed up that last post leaving material out.

But I found this version that uses a Servo driven throttle so its using some sort of micro controller on board for speed and power control.
I like this a lot, but when I first noticed these systems a few years back no one was interested in ordering them for import to Canada or the USA.
I still think now one is importing them.

Anyhow a smart fellow could buy the parts to save money and assemble a system.

Here are some of the pictures and suppliers eluded too in my previous post.

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Great stuff Wallace, lovin it :stuck_out_tongue:

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Wish I could drop in for a visit Mr. Van Looken.
Its currently -5c here and there is half a metre of snow on the ground.
I could use a little sun and palm trees right now.

I have a chum who is a Honda dealer and build race engines for the long tail boats in Thailand.
Between him and I we come up with an improved engine for your application in short order.

If you can remember the next time you need to rebuild a GX200 look for the GX160 piston with the flat top and short skirt from the UT1 engines.
A Good Honda dealer would know what you want ( I recall this was the Z4M piston but do not recall the rest of the Honda numbers ).

The 14cc head off any Chinese Honda copy of the 5.5hp GX160 will bolt onto the Honda blocks you are using.
This will raise your effective compression to about 11:1 and improve your engine performance on Charcoal ( maybe a 5 - 10 percent improvement ).
Make a better exhaust system for the engine too.
The large volume of inert gas in the fuel means there is a lot of dead volume that has to be drawn into and out of the engine.
Anything you can do to improve the volume efficiency and reduce the pumping losses of the engine will not only give you more power but increase your fuel economy

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I am aware of most of your explanations, be it probably less focussed on those Honda engines.
However, effective CR, isn’t that calculated by the amount of mixture taken in, and then calculated by the physical CR ?
Just to make sure i understand correctly. My english habits are mostly direct translating from my own native language…

Intake efficiency, for atmospheric engines is always less then 1.
So, even @ .7 is considered very good.
This varry’s with the rpm, and offcourse the cam settings, valve lifting and so on…
Higher RPM = lower intake efficiency…
Going from 0,5 to 0,6 = gaining 20% for a 5,5 Hp engine in my experience.
Adding a few drops of water/steam in the reactor, raises the RPM, tested under full load, from 2650 RPM to 3300 RPM.
So far, my experiments have been, on purpose, limited to un-modified engines, or only minor changes, achievable without equipments. ( easy to copy for unskilled persons)

I would love to go to the next level and build my owns , full fletched modifications… working on that :stuck_out_tongue:

At the moment i am also experimenting, on the trike, with partial methanol injection/carburator, methanol i derived from bamboo vinegar…
Very promising :stuck_out_tongue: and fun…

If your friend is interested, i am all ears and available to work on the development for an special engine…

How do i measure my improvements on modifications on the intake ?
I make the engine rotate on an electric motor and measure the intake volume at any given rpm, modify and retest…
So, i am pretty sure about the progresses, if they are worth the efforts, and the more or less gain those modifications give.
Still so much i can and will learn…
Thanks for your input, those things are really teaching me, so much appreciated.
Drop by when ever you want, we can have some fun here :stuck_out_tongue:

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Specifics of a language.

Effective compression ratio, poor choice of wording on my part because this confuses things.
Effective meaning what the actual volume of gas compressed.
What I mean to say and what I type can be confusing and I am sorry about that.

What I do know:
Use the 14cc head, and the Z4M piston and if memory serves me it give you a calculated compression of about 11.5:1.
In reality there are different thickness of head gaskets and tolerances that change this.
The restrictions in the flow through even the best engine mean the effective ratio will change from the calculated.

Cylinder pressure is going to change with load and rpm and the volume efficiency of the engine.
From my previous experience the stock cam will allow this engine to make the highest cylinder pressure around 2500 rpm and extract the most from the fuel charge.
Racing cams moves these numbers around and these are not going to be of use here at all.
There may even be some advantage to using the factory Honda GX160 cam.
I have not measured its profile, but I suspect its a little different looking at its lobes.
Non of this matters with these engines however.
I doubt they can detonate at ANY rpm because of the high antiknock property of the fuel and the low effective compression ratio at all rpm.

What you do want to achieve with a modified small block Honda here to reduce the restrictions to flow as much as possible and make the maximum of the fuel/air charge you can draw into the engine.
You can go even higher I suspect without issues of detonation.
But you will get into higher losses from pumping ( sucking air in/out and compressing ) without much gain in power at some point.
I honestly do not know where that point is.

I doubt a Honda rod will suffer from the high compression because the engine does not make much power.
At about 12:1 I am guess what will happen but I do not think any more power can be extracted by trying to increase the compression.

I do think a better exhaust is a good idea.
The stock one is awful and restrictive.
If you can make something about 20mm inside diameter with a smooth transition from the head to the manifold.
Same goes for the intake.
The Honda air filter is very restrictive and I suspect the volumes of air required might mean you are better off making a completely new gas mixer rather than trying to adapt the OEM carb as some sort of mixture.

Hydrogen as I understand things is very fast burning and low octane.
CO with its high nitrogen dilution is slow burning and high octane.
Adding water makes the gas richer and faster burning.
You may be compensating for a lack of timing by improving the fuel when you add water.
It would be an interesting test to see if some timing changes would have as big an improvement on the power.
How much of the increase in caloric value of the fuel is coming from steam?.

As side note I have noticed that Aviation gasoline ( 100LL ) burns more slowly that racing gasoline.
I blend my own fuel at around 94 octane that burns faster and makes more power.
Slow burning needs to be compensated for

I cringe to post this video because its not a producer gas engine.
But it is a pretty darn close in actuality to the build I suggest.
Same head and piston I have talked about.
A very free flowing exhaust and intake without any of the restriction.
Maybe this could make 4 or 5 hp?
I don’t know.

Down the road a little and there are some clones with displacements of 208, 212 and 223 in production right now that might be better engines for this ( there are combinations of stroke and bore with heads that can flow more ).
Lots needs to be done to find out how the engines can be adapted to the fuel.

I will post some part number for the piston for you when I get my log book out.

It’s -10c in the nickle city and my clone powered 1974 snow thrower has a broken drive axle bushing with snow in the forecast.
It has a clone made of scrap motors and a compression of 10:1 and some cast off speed parts.
It has reliably cleaned the snow around my home for a couple of years now.
Neighbors comment on how far if shoots the snow and are annoyed by the noise.
I really enjoy working on clones…

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Looking closer and closer at this unit from China.

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiluIKP_-vKAhXlg4MKHdzZCBwQjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aliexpress.com%2Fpopular%2Felectric-dc-generator.html&bvm=bv.113943665,d.amc&psig=AFQjCNFcH2dRMGnd3UQXwp-7KDtcHIMAgQ&ust=1455152352877392

It seems to be using the same taper shaft system as the regular Chinese generators.
It also seems the stator assembly bolts to a standard clone.

Since its already configured for 48 vdc, that means you have to rewind it, or split the winding 4 times to make 12 vdc.
It looks like its a simple conversion
18 pole machine with 14 magnet poles?
That part confuses me.

I can see its probably going to have some odd grouping of the coils to break it 4 times but maybe three will yield about the right voltage ( run at a lower speed I guess ).

I can not wrap my head around the magnet salient coil combinations.
This is something I need to ask an expert about.

This combined with a battery bank and a solar array with wind mill and inverter would be a fantastic system.
The trick is controller that varies the speed of the engine to the load ( for both a hybrid car application and a stationary power system )

This is an exciting idea and combination of parts.
No one has this for sale here, and its never come up as an idea at any place else.

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I think I figured it out.
This configuration of magnets and coils may be what called a Halbach array.

We we go back and do the math we have 18 coil with 3 coils per pole for 6 poles.

If we arrange 3 magnets in a Halbach array this yields 6 poles also ( I just did this math based on an alternator from this photo. )

Why would they do this?
Well I guess its a short cut to create a rotating field with fero ceramics glued to a steel stamping and it eliminated the need for back iron to contain and shape the magnetic field.

Why did they design a salient pole stator?
This is not as compact as a lap or concentric winding on a conventional stator with a corded winding.
I can’t answer that except to say maybe it was a cheaper way to make this many poles in a small machine.

Clever Chinese Engineering…
So original thoughts on splitting the winding at three points stands.
Its possible and practical for a 12 and 24 conversion of this machine without a rewind.

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Hi Wallace. Coil reconfiguration is way beyond my meager skills. Why do it? Why not feed the output into a mppt type wind controller? Yes it’s another component but you get good three stage charging with no madifications. Failing that I would go the route of the marine alternator with 3 stage controller popular with the boating crowd.

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I looked into buying one of those range extenders to play with on one of my charcoal set ups , and decided to wait till the prices came down a bit .
Well I waited and as luck has it I got myself a good deal for $650 , its a 3500 W dc 24v generator with a 5000W sine wave inverter/charger and a 2400 watt 100amp mppt solar controller , its also tri fuel so this unit I may wait a while till I give it some good ole chargas , seeings as its auto starts when it detects the battery voltage drops to 22.5, and then turns back off at 28.25 battery volts . I cant wait to see how this runs on charcoal , but for now while my other systems are working well I shall leave this as it is and run it on natural gas . Dave

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Dave… I’m speachless that looks like the holy grail of off grid gennies… I agree DON’T MODIFY IT TIL THE WARRANTEE EXPIRES. That has peace of mind written all over it.
Best regards David Baillie

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i need to send my adress i guess…
I give it a WOOOOOOW I LIKE IT…

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OK I’m obsessing over that generator Dave. I wish someone put together a package like that here. One concern I would have is a heat build up and vibration damage from having the all in one setup. I think I would extend the leads out and isolate it from the engine keep it cool keep it from shaking. Of course then you looses the all in one compactness… just musing here.
David Baillie

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Hello Dave.
I like he combinations of parts used on those Chinese rigs.
I would rather build on that template and use an Arduino to manage the charging myself.

I like it so much its on my wish list.
I have a dead Champion donor engine I just need the alternator now.

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