COMMITMENT - Make wood-sweated DIY Engine Fuel for 365

Hey guys was godchildren stay-over week-end.
Apologies for the delay reading and responding.
One and two year old child sitting did not prevent me from two days utilizing my 2x 114,000 BTU’s of gasoline in the Honda EU2000i to make usable kW/h electric and lots of lovely greenhouse heating.

TomW and in JeffD’s posts are the most correct in my intention on this CHALLENGE.
Your race is with yourself. Your needs, Your fuels.
Your results improvements will be for you and yours to benefit from.
Say nothing here if that is your choice. Just do-it to self-learn from.

You start by irrecoverably committing 114,000 BTU’s (one GGE) a day of a motor grade fuel of your choice. Gone forever.
Seriously just start by going out and pouring one US gallon of YOUR gasoline into someone else’s car. Three liters of nice road diesel into the nearest friends diesel pick up.
Do the same for about 1 1/2 gallon of LPG. Go give it away to some BBQ’er, RV’er.
THEN you will realize that these fuels BTU’s used in ANY way motor generating for YOU and YOUR’s instead would have given you some net gain.
Woodfuel - go source, cut-up, chip-up to gasifier size limbs, shipping pallets, whatever, and just go out and dump them on the ground for fill or mud abatement. Then you can cry that you did not make a single watt of usable power in any way.

JD you say 10 pound of woodcharcoal for a GGE?
OK. Now make that daily. Grind it up and put it into the garden - EVERYDAY. Soon I think you would be making shaft watts out of it instead.

My point is “sweat the fuels” in a small manageable/affordable amount daily AND motor commit that fuel to shaft making daily will get up-off ass road to Better’s in all ways BrianHWA.

WE ALL use daily electricity. Daily committing to making what you can with your self-commitment 114,0000 BTU/GGE will make you motivated to keyboard less, get out on hands enjoying being an actual Power-Maker is just so much more rewarding.

I’ll post up my last three days commitment results tomorrow.
Three minutes to Library wi-fi boot out time. Ha! Cannot afford another Police dispatched “move-on-a-long”

Steve UNruh


Sorry Steve, I still do not know what the “challenge” entails. You are asking me to take 10 pounds of charcoal every day and use it for biochar?

So what do you mean I “…would be making shaft watts out of it instead?” All the charcoal I’m making will either go into biochar (softer woods) while the hardwood charcoal will go for engine fuel. Is your challange to “dump” a GGE of energy each day, or to live on only one GGE of energy each day?
Confused in PA


Hi Gary,

I’m pretty sure Steve’s not concerned with how you dispose of the 114,000 BTUs. Just commit to making/buying/using the fuel daily. Even if you’re just giving the fuel away (or dumping charcoal on the garden)… of course you’d rather make energy with it right?

I think a fair exception would be buying gasoline/diesel to run your vehicle (hardly a challenge).

Another exception is buying grid electricity (again, hardly a challenge).

The point is making power yourself. Commit to doing it daily.

1 GGE is not meant to be the upper limit… it’s a minimum amount.

Any fuel (even gasoline) to run a generator is acceptable. Any wood/charcoal fuel to run a vehicle is acceptable. Solar panel battery power is acceptable. And so on…

If you’re already making and using more than a GGE of charcoal / woodfuel daily… then this challenge isn’t for you.

This challenge is, as stated, to get the keyboard commandos off their ass and sweating some homemade power into their lives.

[Steve please correct me if I’ve misinterpreted your reasoning here… :slight_smile: ]


Yes. Yes. YES!!
That is exactly it ChrisKY.

The Challenge is against yourself to up-off-ass and be useing this ONE GGE fuel each and every day to make DIY shaft power and heat. Only burning is learning.

Example of NOT a challenge. I am sitting in front of the bigger manned Library at the City nearest to me. Using the wi-fi my tax dollars pay for.
15.1 miles door to door for me. Light traffic time of day and at my best feather footing in the Hyundai Tucson I show a reset mileage use of 26.1 MPG.
One gallon of gasoline cannot take me back and forth even once to this City with the High School, Safeway, Wal-Mart, our dentist, the dogs Vet the big regional AG supply store

Now at home running unattended is the Harbor Freight Yammer-clone 2-cycle. Took a 150 watt light, plus a 250 watt light, then a 55 watt box fan in the greenhouse to get it loaded-up running smooth, clean and not burbling. It is also powering the three big chest freezers now. 42F and drizzle raining they will not be cycling much at all this time of the year.
Still . . I will feel much more beneficial with the 114,000 BTU’s/GGE I spend out doing that then a not-really-needed trip to the 17,550 person City and back.

Ha! Yesterday; Sunday, we had lots of Pacific storm fronts moving through with wind shears and three minor hail storms.
3:00 PM predictably the Grid power sputtered, suttered, then went completely out.
Wife had a week-ending clean-out the refrigerators (she has three!) electric crock-pot of homemade soup cooking for dinner. Two year old godchild watching her picked out Rudolph the Red-nose Reindeer dvd vidio.
And I was strong light reading a tiny, tiny re-printed of a 1959 book.
And we were only three hours to darkness.
NONE of these could be continued by the woodstove and battery laterns.
"No problem Wife. I have YOUR Honda out already running doing a fuel use test and to run up the hours while still in 3-year warrentee.
Rerouted the 10 ga cord inside with the triple end and we-all just went back to what we’d been doing.

ONLY by using/running daily in all year around climate conditions will your ever be assured that a Genny-system is going to fire right up, and work easy-pleasie, smoothly.

If you want, just think of this commitment to meaningful using one GGE motor fuel daily as a whole family assurance payment. And That is Cheap assurance that you-can, and it-will.

Steve Unruh


Hi TomC.
A response to your questions.
As I said above the GRID fails us often here. “I think” this has to do with what we call flatlanders here expecting ALWAYS a phone-call response by someone to just come and fix their problems in Life. Versus mountain folks shrugging; making-do, and just trucking on with Life.

And as I tell my manufacturing plant Electrician brother-in-law it was never about competing with the Bonneville Power Administration on a kW cost basis. Frankly following the easyist pay-out route means you bought into playing their energy bait and switch games. They still have bought off, own you - still with thier cents per KW. Or bold future with Nuclear (50-60’s). Or now wind/solar going to save-all. Not. There will never be a one-energy replacement solution to match easy oil.
Boring just writing checks and sending them off, anyways.
Fun, fun, fun making engines run for purposes.
I do not know many not satisfied jumping down off a mower, or a tractor, feeling a good job done.

As I said in the original Topic where I introduced my now switching to using these little Honda suitcase inverter units: THESE ARE FOR HER and the other SHE’s in a fellows life.

Of course I will be heading into a Honda GX160/200, or a Yamaha 171cc inverter generator unit. These engines the one’s having the woodgas/chargas fueling easy’s. Look at GaryG, JeffD, Thailand KVL, Dutch John’s 3rd systems.

I did get the Harbor Freight Yammer-clone 2-stoke for three diffident reasons.
I do not yet have the money to buy the Honda/Yamaha units that I want. Be a couple, of three months.
NOW I do use her Honda unit daily packing around for tractors batteries topping up. Idled pick-up truck battery topping off. Topping up the handfuls of low-discharge NiMH AAA. AA and D cells I have stocked us up with. No more one-uses disposables will be bought here anymore. Just needs a grid-down reliable recharging source.
Using daily now for useable purposes and this Honda goes down then I’d be WITHOUT when the GRID enevitiablity goes down like this last Sunday for hours.
Firing up the big 11.5 kW Miller/Koller on gasoline or wood gas is the waste for these light power needs.
Last reason my getting the 2-cyle Yammer-clone. I DID recommend others getting one while they still EPA can. I was surprised how many have bought these. As the local “generator-man” soon someone going to drag one to me not working asking for help. Having a from new baseline experience then I will be able to help.
And any-hoo I always have 2-7 gallons of 2-stroke mix fuel here for the three Stihl chainsaws and the two weed/brush hogs. I buy the good Stihl oil to mix by the gallon. Good for 50 gallons of gasoline.

Good clean running 4-stroke power is my generating “belts”.
Now I do have a 2-stroke generating “suspenders” too.

Wifie called me down into the big-city to take her a forgotten data-stick. So had to abort out of solid data on my 2-stroke fuel-use testing today.
Tomorrow. 997 or less days to go until no-more Steve time.

Steve Unruh


Hey JimL.
My point was since you are not making shaft power now in any way?? Solar only? Then anything engine generating you’d do would be a step to Better diversity.

Ha! I recently told BillS to start electrical generating with his IHC gasoline tractor now.
He’s true off-grid now. The gasoline use would then pull/push his woodgasing efforts forward garran-damn-teed.

Self generating sure motivates to get all swapped out to LED’s and newer less energy gobbling appliances.

Just like woodstoving: once you’ve used a Good modern designed airtight you will never go back to an old (NOT) good-enough, air leak’er. Just gobbles too much wood.

Steve Unruh


Hey Steve
I threw some road kill and homegrown vegies on the woodstove this morning and headed to the shop. First couple hours on the wood gas truck then on to the slightly modified keystone stove… I can’t bring myself to waist the heat making charcoal. I decided it will be used to boil sap. It is getting close to done. just needs stove pipe outlet and insulation. Will finish after dinner. Have plans to get working on these two Onans and the Kolar / Lincoln this week. Was thinking as I was working I should be using this old stick/ genny because I need to be able if need be.
Thanks for the kick in the a$$. I know this stuff is no good if it don’t work. And I know it is just a matter of time and I will need it. Now is the time to make sure it works and is in the works now . Thank you
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Man I wish we had a machine set up!!! Argh maybe soon, we finally have our test mule and it is up to latest revisions for further development. We should be able to aford our own predator and hopefully will be able to get the inverter to tie into our panel. This will be the plan and is my goal to get us completely off grid and will run on wind and biomass.

Ill be watching and hope to join in on this soon.

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Jim and Matt, yes, that the spirit of this CHALLENGE.
It ain’t about all-the-world-over comparability or bragging rights.
It’s about you, yourself burning/learning by actually using for you, and yours which you will be doing anyhow as a matter of daily living/providing.

After reading this whole topics exchanges now I’ve decided NOT to put up my actual use numbers. This will only drive the idealisms fires.
I will give practical’s learned though.

You’ll only ever get all of the fuel out of these Chinese Yammer-clones by corner tip-up mounting. These need air flow up from underneath anyways so I put mine in a square of plywood with a 2" block under the diagonal corner from the fuel-shut off petcock.
Then all of the fuel will be used up out of the line and carb bowl. Important for me as all of my set up system are unattended and fuel/heat turn themselves off.
Just like I woodstove.
Now able to get 7 hours at 1/2 load of 500 watts on one tank of fuel. I can only get slightly less than one gallon in mine even level mounted. CA version I’m thinking with the additional cannot fill vapor recovery space.
Just as the owners manual said it has taken 25 hours running to get this completely rings seated in.

Honda EU2000i is now getting a soild 10 hours running at a 400-500 watt stabilization loading. Rated .95 gallon tank. Now with the fuel shut off split out from the ignition turn off I am able to run out empty all of the four fuel lines, pulsator pump and carb bowl to dry/safe.
Partial filling the tank. Then hand cranking over to fill these. Then I can squeeze in the remaining one gallon up to the neck for a true one gallon filling.

And this give you the systems fuel use comparibilty.
Output power is a different story.
The inverter/geberator unit is frequncy clean, clean with a real stable voltage. Overloaded it just shut itself down. Idles. Waints for a manual turn off, reset/restart.
The AC/synchronous capacitor/field set up like all of these new AC cheepie’s: load-on, load-off swings the voltage from ~100 to 140 vac. The engine speed governor system fights enough to swing the hertz ~55-68. Worse. These two systems then occolate and fight each other into seconds duration stability. Overloaded is actually a stable condition but with “browned out” low frequency and voltage. Means heat build up on the generator windings side and the loads sides.
Brush type synchronous gen heads with a variable active feed-back field strength controls are just so much more able to keep the output voltage stable.
Goota’ love your old systems if you have one. Use a brush type daily and they will never hang-up!

Absolute key to getting these kinds of run/fuel use hours is keeping these system “heat” loaded down to run clean and most efficient! That unloaded burbling is actually cylinder cycles miss-firing.
Pee/stinking ito yours and mines airs with passed through HC fuels and oils!
Pocket emptying looting you out of your had to make/buy/acquire fuel stocks. That cylinder cycle NOT firing/power contributing then dragging existing rotational energy out of the engine/gen head systems. 2x then the energy you have to put back in to make the rpm/power on the good firing cycles. This takes MORE fuel.
A smoking woodstove chimney is wasted HC fuel dollars, gone by-by forever up-in-smoke. Burn clean, efficient to burn the most fuel-use economical. All heat engines the same.

I will not be following the DOW overall anymore. I cannot support the mental distractions anymore.
Be posting up very little now. It is very difficult for me to language express out anymore.
I want to spend this last 3% of my life now setting up the wife and the family’s with systems they can operate and use without tech-no-freek me babysitting and trouble shooting.

Home here this will means a 15-16 hour IC engine system. Tri-fuel capable: gasoline, propane and woodgas. Cast iron bore Honda’s and Yamaha’s can do this 5840 hour annually easy once broken in properly with just then a $200-300. a year overhaul/restore. 2nd whole system the back-up/down-for-overhaul, suspenders. Cheaper to set up and maintain then a will-not-be-ever-looked-at battery bank.
John Deere tractor will get a new high capacity 31P battery. This will be the other 8 hours power source for lighting for nightlights and chicken lighting. 12vdc R19 base RV bulbs last forever with the best knocking about durability. What I used as an auto tech. Maybe even the new 12vdc LED’s

See in the cloud rain forest with lots of year around growing wood fuel, with NO reliable usable SOLAR, a BIG solar capable battery banks are not the way to go. I allowed myself to be diverted distracted there.

Steve unruh


I heard my name mentioned.
I really want to participate in this challenge now. I feel this is a good opportunity for me to learn.
I have a few obstacles, 40’ of hard pack snow down to about 18" deep now for one. I will see if I can get my tractor between the camper and shipping container this weekend when it warms up a bit.
My gasifier took a beating during the move up here last fall. But… If I can get it out of there and running, it would be a great time to see if the tractor can idle on wood gas too. 5’ high snow banks are restricting me from having additional room for anything else in the small driveway.
I will be set up by next winter to power up on wood. Split wood with wood. This was the motivating factor for moving up here so quickly.


Ha! BillS,
you already are with just your daily living-it.


Ah. I forgot to add:
how much difference does the inverter/gnerators variable speed capability make on fuel consumption?

On the Honda EU2000i about 30%.
By actual DOing you will make mistakes. As much to be learned from mistakes, as from intents.
I was late leaving to the annual Clark County Foresters Association meeting. IMPORTANT not to be late - officer voting night. Not go and you will end up voted in working for a year as some officer.
So I just splashed-in a short gallon into the Honda. Plug-in in the loads and ran out at 4:00 PM. Returning at 9:00 PM it had fuel ran dry, stopped. What-the-hey?? Next morning fully refueling and starting up I saw that I had failed to switch it over to Economy throttle. So for ~5 hours it was fixed at 4300 RPM.
Intentionally reduplicating this and at the same loads I get 30% longer running times variable speed Economy throttle ON, versus locked in 4300 RPM “normal” Eco-off.

This Yanmar inverter/diesel system if it will load has some nice graphic charts showing frequency and fuel graphed fuel use ranges on their 7.5 diesel inverter system. If not load just search up “Yanmar eG-i series”
They only claim a 20% fuel use improvement. Slower, diesel based engine systems. No. I do not see any way to use these as woodgased. Offered up just for the charts and graphs.


Thanks for the links on the trifuels.
Question: did you list these because they will adapt to wood gas with timing or because of their versatility?
Question 2: from my understanding, you have grid power where you are at. For your testing, do you just shut your main breaker off and use what you need? Or do you have a place to hook your generator to for extended power outages?


Good Morning BillS
I listed them as showing the will-be-using direction I will be going now. The open frame 2800 kW Yamaha model. These are off the shelf proven affordable solutions. Just a phone call away. This Yamaha inverter unit has been out in the world working/proving since at least 2004.
Everything does not have to be such a from the ground up project deal that most here insist on!
For you in the COLD, take DavidB’s advice that tanked propane is tricky to get enough out of the tank flow in the really cold-times.

Easiest, yes, to woodgas mix in the air cleaner housing. NOT the best though. Too much carb venturi flows restriction. And the woodgas soots WILL clog the carb’s air bleed jets. Dutch John on his DJ3 home generator system did air cleaner box mixing since he was only woodgas single fueling.
Now on his Chevy 454 pickup he went with separately mounted gasoline carburator; a separately mounted propane carburetor with these flowing down through a woodgas mixer section then. Each gasoline/propane branch isolated with air-tight quarter turn ball valves. He was not vehicle after gasoline boosting while woodgasing.
I have done this separate branched systems now on B&S generators. Quite a project actually as all of that hung out weights/mass has to be well to the engine braced for the single cylinder shaking. Opps! I had some cracking problems developed early on.
These small engines are changing ignition timing slope for RPM as Mr Wallace has pointed out already handy/dandy built-into the late model Honda/Yamaha/B&S/Kohler transistorized ignition modals. They had to do this to meet the California 300-500 hours/3 years emissions durability regulations. Clone copy systems, and and Not-For-Sale-In-CA systems are dumbed down, cheeped out single timing.
As Mr Wallace says you just have to reset the flywheel to the best compromise for the fuels used range, and the cranking/starting. The advanced factory transitirized ignitions will do the rest plenty good enough.
Sigh. The insistent, I must have off-board small generator engine timing micro-chip control are “idealizers”.
“Just, ignore the man behind the curtin” (Wizard of Oz quote).

Bill as I’ve told you, here I Grid-lite. This means the two small houses have their own separate now mandatory radio-reporting/telemetric meter heads.
The out buildings and well-pump are not on these systems.
My new 19’ X 41’ metal shop has never been Grid hooked up. Was $5,000. in permitting to do this. Plus the ditching and hardware. So easy for me to power up DYI as I please to, or not. F’em.

The old freezers shed/old tool-room/woodshed/greenhouse/well-pump on an old separate meter head service. Also now mandatory radio-reporting/telemetric meter head converted by our Grid supplier. This one is still the old overhead lined in service. They are waiting for wind/snow line failure to be able pull the power on that to force me then to convert to an underground service. Back to that $5,000.+
So real easy for me to generator power all for this too except for the 240vac deep well pump. Ha! My difficulty is trying to get all of this to have a constant 400-500 watt loading for best generator engine performances. For now I just unnecessarily watts-load with lighting in the greenhouse and the chicken shed.
Also the trick now is to still show some service meter activity on this outbuildings service.
Radio prompted/data dumping meters were so you could NOT back feed spin!
So they could anytime on-demand, in-real-time, track high use MJ grow operations. My area was converted over with FED/DEA grant dollars.

These quiet little portables I just pack to the house needing. And cord-in that in-house 120vac base needs. Not 240vac. Needs gone - then cords gone. Who? Me? Where? When? Prove-it!
The Yamaha 2800 would then allow me to fully power at a normal single 20 amps circuit expectation when on gasoline or propane. What I need for my Sears oil-less diaphragm air compressor. 1/2 that 2800 (or better) when on woodgas.
Grid-lite means just like leave-no-trace hiking.
Life awards much misery and heartache to those World-Changers insisting on waving signs and grandstanding for causes and ideals.
“That ain’t me.” (the song)

Wanna change the world? Change Your world first. You did. You are. You are one of the real ones
Steve Unruh


The PRIZE for accepting and completing this YOU Use one gasoline gallon equivalent fuel daily to make some of your electrical power and heat?

After 1000 days over the course of three years in all seasons and weather condition then YOU WILL BE YOUR OWN EXPERT!
Nobody will know better than you what you need for you and yours under your actual Living conditions.
No one else will have made your mistakes, recovered, and learned, moved on forward to better from these Oop’es.

You will then gain the respect of all of those DOing it daily for Real, each and every day.

Until you Do, do this, then at best you are a wanna-be.
At worst - “One Who (still) Serves Debt” poser.

Steve Unruh


You are kind of sounding like Donald Trump — by insulting us you are trying to move us??? TomC


Me? D.Trump? I think not. I actully worked for a living. Early retired - and I still worked. Now finally old evough to collect on the S.S. retiement I had to pay into since 1967 - I still DO things productive/learning everyday.
Donald, trumpets, because he needed your buy-in involvement into his empire-building. Now he really needs your vote to take his next step-up.
He will not have my vote. I am expressing my American right to write-in whomever I wish.
Hmm . . . C-o-l-l-i-n-s.

On this my one GGE DOing to learn every single day TomC I have the Harbor Freight 2-stroke Yammer-clone up now loaded running fueling on the cheapest pond-scum 10% ethanol 87 crap-gas I could find locally now. But changed over to the most expensive Stihl grey bottle branded mix-oil. The all synthetic, biodegradable “burns cleaner” stuff.
Amazing. I seem to get the same two pulls from ran dry empty starting up, warming-up, power as I had before.
Certainly does exhaust out very neutral smelling now. No more oily tongue yukking. Follow you into the house cloths stench.
I had been getting 6 hour run-out times at 500 watt loading 89 clear-gasoline on the decades proven orange bottle Stihl mix-oil… Even if this drops to 5.5 hours; or even the manufactures rating of 5 hour this now with the four piece plywood tip-shields now finally gives me a system to set up the suburban lots families with.

Only by DOing daily, trying different things, specifically for me and mine, would I ever have learned this.
Thanks to you, and all who inputted I-use-these experience’s to make me off-butt try too.

Ha! Ha! Today operators experience on these is IF I dribble in the full 1.1 gallon specified on the side of this machine. Once running, fuel tank warming, fuel expanding, up it will burp out past the cap droozzling all over the running machine!
Damn good thing I have this opposite corner of the fuel shut petcock tipped up mounted now
That droozzle when flowed Safe to the carburetor/petcock corner AWAY from the spark plug/hot exhaust muffler side.

Fuels Burning is Learning. And Only loaded IC engine fuels burning is really learning well.
Steve Unruh

And said most repectfully: unlike D.Trump I do not give a silly damn if anyone ever reads or pay attntiom to me. I will just continue to DO for me and mine as I see best.