Egyptian wants help to make woodgas motorcycle

hello im Mohamed from Egypt and we have problem in Egypt in Gasoline
its a little and Expensive also we have problem with electric any way I need to make (wood gasification) to

  • Run my motorcycle
    can any one learn me Step by Step to do it?
    can any one sent design for it ?
    also where i find company can make training 4 workers to can open (wood gasification) factory in Egypt

Welcome to the site Mohamed. We are sorry for the unrest in your country and can see how wood gas would help you. Here is a video of someone who has done it well.

Also a link to his construction site

Is there wood or other bio-mass available?

Hello MohamadA.
On this site read here “Charcoal Gas Bike”:

Four different men, in four different countries, with three different native languages. Exchanges in standard english.
Because of different climates, woodfuels, base motorcycles and desired needs these have always been one man, one motorcycle projects. No one will be able to take you step by step. You must do this on your own. Thier pictures and comment will show you what must be done.
Even in an arid country such as yours this is certainly DO-able for an Individual on scrap found wood.
The wood to liquid gasoline/petrol ratio for motor fuel energy in wieght and volumn is ~22 to 1.
You will have to prove your area could readily supply a minmum of 100-200 cubic meters annually of woodfuel to convince anyone from treewood rich areas to help you set up a 4 man operation. In wood scarce areas such as yours often the Government on power will step in from ecological/political/ecomomic pressures and shut down or heavily tax and regulate users taking this much of valuable slow to replace wood resources from other current users.

Steve Unruh

THANKS Mr Steve Unruh but ur link speak general information and most of it about engine
any way i thank u

hello sir
good link really i I benefited but look at this bic and tell me What is the benefit of a barrel؟
how i make cooler by my self

and look at this bic and tell me What is the benefit of this and what it name ?

The barrel is filled with a filter material, likely straw or foam. The second picture shows a blower, to stoke the fire in preparation to run the engine.

I think you would do well to read about gasification and understand the systems before attempting to build anything. I recommend Dr Reed’s Handbook of Biomass Gasifier Systems, found here:

Read it several times, try to internalize the process of gasification. Then all the gasifier parts will be easy to identify.

Hello MohamedA.
The information link Chris Saenz gave you is excellent, very detailed . . . and very long. Do read as well as you can. And then read again.
For a shorter woodgas read with pictures try here:
Then open “MicroGasifiers” In english.
Simple direct descriptions with many pictures. You can then compare there with the Russian woodgas motorcycle system. All of the same system elements.

Most motorcycles were/are converted to fuel with pre-made wood charcoal to produce motor fuel gas. You only then have 1/2 of the needed on the motorcycle installed systems. Much lighter and simpler on the motor cycle. The charcoal fuel is much denser.
The other system componets are off of the motorcycle and then stationary in the wood into charcoal making equipment.
Here on the Drive on Wood site all charcoal making and motor gas making take place on the Charcoal Gasification section. You will find this opening up the Forums tab.

Be aware charcoal making and using has become restricted in many areas of South Asia, India sub-continent and central Africa due to deforestation and air and water pollution from the old traditional ways if in the ground charcoal making.
Is wood charcoal making and use allowed in your country, or restricted? You must find this out.

Steve Unruh

thank u Mr Chris Saenz 4 ur information i download the book it very good book but i need some time to convert it from pdf to word to can copy all words and translat it in google translation because im not good in English

Mohamed, I’ve actually extracted the text already. I’ll email it to you (anyone else needing the text, let me know).

hello i thank u Mr Steve Unruh but when i read in web cite i find big proplem in (Basic calculations)
so i hope if u read what i dont understand and make me understanding but in short i need to make gasification for china motorcycle as in top photo
and the rpm 4 it is 6000 or 8000 as i read
tell me whats tubes and whats long for it
but frist try to read the bood information about the (Basic calculations)

Basic calculations

This is a tough and dull paragraph. But also the basis of an Imbert gas generator. Therefore an important paragraph. I will not explain how the formulas have come about. For that you need to study the literature. This is only a summary.

We start with the most important formula, which is nevertheless difficult to find in literature: the calculation of the quantity of required gas. The dimensions of all important components of the whole gasifier unit are based on this. This is it:

G = V x n x 0.5 x 0.48 x 0.72 [l/s]

G is the needed quantity of gas in liters per second
V is the engine displacement in liters
n is the rpm
0.5 is the four stroke factor
0.48 is the mixture composition (1: 1.1)
0.72 is the filling degree of the engine (assumption)
60 for the conversion to seconds

Example: G = 2.32 x 2,750 x 0.5 x 0.48 x 0.72 = 18.4 [liter cold gas per second]

This quantity of gas is sucked by the engine every second. These are the numbers which I have used for my Volvo: 2,320 cc and 2,750 rpm, a little under 3,000. It is better to dimension the generator too small than too large. A generator which generally is used under its nominal capacity, can produce tar. Certainly when slow driving in town or on long idling.

Next calculation is the determination of the diameter of the restriction. We assume thereby a superficial gas speed through the restriction of 2.5 [m/s]. I foresee now glaring looks, but you will encounter this number in the literature also, study therefore!

d = square root from (4/pi x G/Vi)

d is the restriction diameter
pi is 3.142
G is quantity of cold gas per second
Vi is the superficial velocity being: 2.5 [m/s] = 25 [dm/s] for an Imbert

Example: d = square root from ((4/3,142) x (18,4/25)) = 0.97 [dm] = 97 [mm]

This is an important dimension, because it determines all other dimensions of the hearth. These measures can be calculated, but I will not bother you with that. They depend entirely on which type of Imbert you want to build. For this reason I refer to the tables in the literature. With the restriction diameter you can read the remaining dimensions in the tables.
For a simple Imbert with V-hearth use the tables in the “Handbook or biomass downdraft gasifier systems”. Tables for gasifiers with effective primary air pre-heating can be found in FAO 72. And as the attentive student notices, the literature is not always uniform. That is not a big problem, certainly not if you ensure that nozzles and restriction are interchangeable. Nozzles that are adjustable in length and a height adjustable restriction by means of shims.

Tubing diameters depend on the gas quantity, but also on the temperature. In most tubing, we want a laminar flow (< 5 m/s). In some tubing we need a turbulent flow(> 6 m/s). Unfortunately turbulence raises the pressure drop in the system and reduces the filling degree and with that, engine power output.

To determine the tubing diameter, we first calculate the gas flow in liters per second. “We had that number already?!” you will notice; indeed, the quantity of cold gas. But since the gas is hot, an increase of volume occurs. We recalculate this flow using a conversion in Kelvin. 0 degrees Celsius are 273 Kelvin. 350 degrees Celsius are 273 + 350 = 623 Kelvin. 18.4 [l/s] at 350 degrees becomes:

(623/273) x 18.4 = 42.0 [l/s]

See, that asks for a wider tube! Those 350 degrees is the temperature of the gas which comes out of the generator of the Volvo. Because the gas has internally exchanged energy with primary air by effective double heat exchangers, this temperature is rather low. Without heat exchangers, the temperature would be 600 to 700 degrees. So pay attention, which type of Imbert you want to use.

In the tube after the generator, we want a turbulent gas stream, to avoid settling of dust particles in the tube. Take 10 [m/s] =100 [dm/s]

Diameter pipe D = gas flow/gas speed = 42.0/100 = 0.42 [dm2] = 4,200 [mm2]

Pipe diameter d = square root ((4 x 4,200) /pi) = 73 [mm]

76.1 is x 1.5 [mm] or 3” is existing tube and fits very well.

After the filtering we want a laminar flow to avoid much resistance and power loss. So, up to 5 [m/s]. In practice you use the same size tubing in the whole system; in my situation, 76.1 x 1.5 mm. Downstream the gas decreases in temperature, shrinks and automatically a lower speed is obtained. Better a too wide than a too tight tube.

In the “Handbook or biomass downdraft gasifier systems” a chapter has been dedicated to the cyclone. Also the website of Bill Pentz is very instructive. Take into account that a slim cyclone removes also a large part of the fine dust. A too generous sized cyclone has less resistance, but only removes the coarse particles. Take an entrance speed in the cyclone of 25 to 30 meters per second, taking the temperature of the gas into account. Calculation of the entrance diameter is the same as before on tubing diameters. The remaining dimensions can be calculated or derived from the above mentioned documents.

For the glass-fibre filter surface area is a formula:

Af = 1.5 x V [m2]

Af is filter surface area in [m2]
V engine displacement in [litre]

For the Volvo:
Af = 1.5 x 2.32 = 3.5 [m2]

I must admit that it has become less: 2.8 [m2].

Also for the total cooling area there is a directive. With “total cooling area” I mean all surfaces which are in contact with the open air, therefore also the tubing. The filter barrel has been insulated, therefore that does not count. Of course, the cooler itself has the most surface area. The directive is:

Ak = V x n x 1.25 [m2]

Ak is the cooling area in [m2]
V engine displacement in [litres]
n is the rpm divided by thousand

For the Volvo:
Ak = 2.32 x 2.75 x 1.25 = 8.0 [m2]

In practice it is difficult to realise. For this reason I have chosen for a cyclone, an apparatus which not only filters, but because of the very high gas speeds and the high gas temperatures, cools extraordinarily well with a relatively small surface. The gas tube, coming from the filter barrel, is finned, so that the out coming gases of approximately 100 degrees Centigrade are cooled down to 40 degrees over a length of only 70 cm, so it is under the dew point. Water condenses in the tube before it heads under the trunk towards the engine. An additional advantage is that possible mineral deposits are rinsed to the cooler.

The cooler itself can best be made of thin walled stainless steel tubes with a diameter of 15 to 25 mm. Gas always goes up in the cooler. Or up by two third of the tubes and down by a third. Up, because of the earlier-mentioned flush effect. The condensate rinses down along the tube wall, also cleaning the dry part. The reason for two third up and one third down is the warmer, expanded gas going in. While being cooled, the volume shrinks and less tubes are needed for the same gas speed. A slight turbulent flow is best for heat exchanging.

i thank u MR Chris Saenz U R so You are so cute
i will wait ur email

im loking forwed to do gasification as which it in photos

u can see this link from page 230 to …

and give me the tube size and longs in frist to pring it frist
and how meany tubes
i know evry thig is writ in abook but im not good in English so i need short information

Max Gasman taught me this and then went on to say G (gas needed) = n, rpm (engine speed average you wish your engine to run in expressed in thousands… so 2000 rpm =2, 2500 = 2.5) x V engine displacement (expressed in L so 600 cc is .6) x 3

example G (L/s) = .6 (V) x 2.5 (2500 rpm) x 3

          G = 4.5 L/s

much simpler.

hello Mr Arvid Olson i think u r wrong in Output ur calculate ur output calculations is G = 4.5 L/s
but i think the right calculate is G = 4.32 L/s

G = V x n x 0.5 x 0.48 x 0.72 [l/s]

G = V (.6) x n(2500 rpm) x 0.5 x 0.48 x 0.72 [l/s]

G = 4.32 L/s I’m right sir?

now sir i cant understand the next calculate it website example so please try 2 explain this example 4 me
read it
( Next calculation is the determination of the diameter of the restriction. We assume thereby a superficial gas speed through the restriction of 2.5 [m/s]. I foresee now glaring looks, but you will encounter this number in the literature also, study therefore!

d = square root from (4/pi x G/Vi)

d is the restriction diameter
pi is 3.142
G is quantity of cold gas per second
Vi is the superficial velocity being: 2.5 [m/s] = 25 [dm/s] for an Imbert

Example: d = square root from ((4/3,142) x (18,4/25)) = 0.97 [dm] = 97 [mm]

tell me sir what he mean by ( pi ) alson how he cach this number 3.142 ? is this number Fixed and fit to any other mathematical operation؟ or just linked with this example?

also i have comment about ( Vi is the superficial velocity being: 2.5 [m/s] = 25 [dm/s] for an Imbert )
how he know that Vi is 2.5 [m/s] or is ( Vi is 2.5 [m/s] ) Fixed and fit to any other mathematical operation؟ or just linked with this example?
i waiting the answer and thank u

Mohamed: “Pi” is the ratio between the width (diameter, or 2*radius) and outside edge (circumference) of a circle. You might be able to translate this, or find it in your native language:

Hello MohamedA
You wanted simple language with many pictures for a small woodgas system capable of operating this Chineses motorcycle:
Double the size of the DJ-3 Dinyfier system as per the designer Dutch John.
Use the system componet layout as shown on the mobile DJ-2 Tiny lawnmower machine.
Use a minimum of a 75mm restiction. 100mm would be better.
You will adjust the gasses flow through this with your wood fuel chunk cut sizing for your own particular available wood fuel characteristics. This is the operator controllable variable that cannot be put into the maths that YOU WILL ACTUALLY CONTROL with.

Before you build, simulate the woodgas fueled power you will have on the motorcycle to determine if you will be satisfied with this.
Block the throttle so the engine will NOT run above 4000-4500 RPM under an operating load in any gear.
Then cover the air cleaned filter with layers of cloth so it will only produce approximately 60% of normal power on petrol at this now resticted RPM.
Now tie on bulky cans left and right onto the machine with with at least 30 kg of rocks inside of them.
Go riding on your typical road conditions.

Will you be satisfied with this reduced power and capabilties once you are system completed??
Will you be happy with this reduced usable power and increases motorcycle system weight and bulk??
Be honest about this.

Steve Unruh