Hello All
For real-in-this-world fuel wood use a Farmer aught to be growing and making his own.
Mine?
We just timber harvested 10 acres of the families three generations growing woodlot land.
150 log truck loads timber harvest at ~65,000 pounds net per truck were removed as timber and wood paper pulp. Plus 7 over-length (115 foot long) truck loads of power/pilings pole trees harvested.
So an easy 10,000,000 pounds of “live-wet” weight harvested off of this ten acres. Average tree age was 75 years - ALL second growth.
Now this 10,000,000 pounds was actually only about 50% of the whole Douglas Fir tree. ~20% left on-site in the limbs, needles and tops. ~30% left on-site left in the in-the ground tree stumps and extensive roots systems.
These left on-site AND NOT ALL-BIOMASS ripped out, off-site removed will nurture and feed for decades the newly planted and self-seed started next generation of Doug Fir trees.
Once your account for the 50% of removed weight as actually water weight that came from the sky rain that leaves 5,000,000 pounds removed from the ten acres.
Of that net “dry weight” air derived: oxygen and nitrogen will account for 2/3rds of that.
Air derived CARBON, and ground derived minerals account for the remaining 33%.
Doug Fir has a tree trunk(stem) ash mineral content of under 1%. The barks and needles a ash mineral content of 3-4%.
The carbons were from the air removed; and minerals site removed will go into buildings (your houses), paper products (YOUR toilet, facial and feminine hygiene from this DF fiber sources).
Net soil/site mineral loss works out to 16,500 pounds off of this 10 acres. Any real farmer KNOWS in tonnage just how much it take per acre to soil amend for tangible benefits.
This land was 1850’s Mt Saint Helens volcanic ash covers. Then again 4-6 inches volcanic ash “replenished” in 1980 through 1983. So we live in a “free” minerals gaining region. Ha! Ha! Just falls out of the sky!
“Ashes to Ashes” “Dust to Dust” reuse/recycling works for atmosphere’s and soils too. With water as the most visible/active example.
Some pictures of this on my DrupalDOW members page. Maybe more later if an interest.
Regards
Steve Unruh
Thanks for the pictures transfer ChrisKY.
These we early on project pictures from October. I have 186 later through December project pictures yet to unload from my camera.
The two Doug Fir stumps shown were from a root rot dying, and lighting center cooked damage trees. Ended up with 7 root rot trees and 8 lighting damaged out of the total harvest. Weather turns better and I’ll make an accurate stump/tree count. Should be ~75 per acre for a total of ~750 trees harvested. We will replant at 300 seedlings per acre, with randomized ~13 foot centers to center. With an expected ~10% fail to thrive and a 15, then 25 year manual thinning out end goal is to duplicate ~30 feet apart tree spacing to maturity. This creates the best balance of growth with enough light and ground moisture to set up a good animal friendly habitat forest green floor.
We left an adjacent un-harvested 4 acres for the owls, hawks, crows , deer and such.
Family’s been paying annual timberland taxes on this property for 65 years. ~$20,000 in non-adjusted dollars. Our owed timber harvest to the State of Washington tax was $9,000.
Our owed now U.S.A. Fed income tax is confidential. Gonna be an ouch.
And NO. There were NO $1,000 trees in there.
Truck loads scaled out at 3,000 to 5,500 board feet. Then less a contract % harvest split to the logger. Then less sarifing machine time and replanting costs.
No small scale farmer is getting rich.
Regards
Steve Unruh
Steve, interesting information.
I guess I haven’t even thought of ‘farming’ trees. Is it a company that you would seek to harvest your trees where they drop them and clean them up for shipping off your property? Being raised in the city and spending summer on a dairy or beef farm, this is all new to me.
Hey BillS
I cannot say for your region. Here PNW wet-side it was individuals/companies then corporations buying up blocks of timbered land. Then raising, hiring their own harvesting crews and owning their own equipment. Even trying to get big enough to own their own mills and retail milled lumber and finished paper products “Brands” and distribution centers.
Most times they would then sale this stump-land, move-on to the next rape and move on.
Most family properties were then “many sons” stumped out for farming if the ground would support it. Far seeing individuals like my wife’s Grandmother and Mother; companies and corporations like Weyerhauser, Publishers Paper then first left enough “seed trees” from all early harvest into the early 1900’s; and then beginning in the 1940’s nursery stocks kept their lands, native species trees replanted back for re-production. Originally they calculated on a 100 year re-harvest time here PNW we-sidw. Then shortened to 75 years with better lands/forest active management culturing. Now shortened to 50 year trees crop turns with smaller, less impact harvesting machines and techniques and CNC mills.
Back then as a logger you were either “a company man” or an independent “gypo” logger.
Today with union labors costs, equipment expenses and especially the super high costs for state and federal mandatory workmans compensation insurances ALL harvest logging here is done by contract independents. Company sized operations independents were work starved/squeezed out died by the early 1990’s with Clintons forest compromised quotas.
All harvesting now contract done by small family sized operations. And they even sub-contracting to individual owner-operators for the log truck hauling. This spreads out the risks. Minimizes the individuals insurance and regulatory expenses costs loading.
Piece I am now showing bid in at a 38% logger to 62% landowner harvest pay split. We each paying out own taxes and insurances loads. And expences. We resonsible for all permits. They break their machines - it’s on them.
Previous harvest we did that I’ve shown you pictures of was high up in the mountains with a long, long only one trip turn around a day for the log hauling out to any mill. And a 4 hour each way, each day for the loggers to drive to the site.
That bid/contracted as a 60% to the logger, 40% split to us the landowners. And we were lucky to even get a bid. Only happened with a “someday” inducement for this current near-in harvest.
So see. Still a lot of personal trust had to take place.
Note: no consideration given to the CARBON impacts to this by them or me. That is just the latest Urban/intelligista spin-fad. Has no basis in real world, investment, lands management.
Ha! Ha! Otherwise I would have been PAID for the 16,500 pounds of atmospheric carbon per acre we’ve been removing these last 65 years. NOT be four governments taxed forced to convert this tree-lot instead into 14 to 70 new consumer fossil carbon emitter households.
Once you experience this you too will realize more consumer/taxpayers are our governments “crops”.
Regards
Steve Unruh
Hi All
I’ve been working now on the Carbon capture numbers on this 10 acres.
I keep coming up with 16,560 atmospheric capture pounds per acre, per year of carbon diaxide.
Looking for confirmation data on this before I lock this claim in.
This would mean tha tfamily allowing this land to grow trees for the last 75 years was carbon offsettimg ALL fossil fuels carbons emmiting by the four primary family members all of these years and then some.
Regards
Steve Unruh
Well Fellows. Read this while you can. I will not be reposting this over to the General Populations section.
Too many tree hugger/carbon sequencer people there for my limited patience.
My carbon catcher numbers above were OK for an annual TOTAL atmospheric carbon chapter for the WHOLE 10 acre plot annually of 16,560 pounds of carbon.
Means for the 75 year running we were handily offsetting the fossil fuel carbons releases for the average of the FOUR adult family residing. This based on each adult using 2000 gallons of gasoline/diesel/propane annually.
As a perceptive the four owner combined 30 acres just to the west/southwest of this property was big developer bought, ripped off of all of all of it’s trees and converted to 90 urban lot sized residences. 90 x 3 vehicles per lot is a lot of new fossil fuel carbon emitters displacing those native carbon capturing trees.
Progress, eh?
That housing development was call Big Timber Phase I and Phase II.
Our trees were the big timber.
Number 7 of the many reasons to harvest out tree NOW was a drive for any tree plot over 100 years old (down from 300 to 200 currently) to be now classified as “Old Growth”. Therefore forever locked out of any harvest/use possibility by my new moved here tree hugger voting neighbors. Strange. They moved for the view, never offered to help pay the taxes.
S.U.
Well still working on trying to get the was-in-progress and the now pictures up.
Ha! Ha! One of the last three limb piles burnt in late January STILL now 75 days later sit-heats back up and steams/slow charcoal eating smolders.
This is after 21 inches of rain in February; 8 inches in March; and now ~5 inches so far this April.
I’ve grub hoed and raked it out eight times! Was able to charcoal fuels scatter and cool the other two of the last three.
This one was a 40 foot by 4 foot high monster once burnt down.
Reducing it down allows for another 2-3 seedling trees to be replanted in the next two weeks. With 30 limb piles not reducing these down would have not allowed the replanting of ~one-half of an acre (23,000 square feet) out of this 10 acre harvest area. So less 150 baby trees not then put in growing.
Regards
Steve Unruh
SteveU,
This is a great thread for us all (NWP members especially) The family here is thinking of timberland for new property for me and family investment. I just found this thread today. Thanx for the realistic info. Gordon
Well folks the tree planter crew just planted 2800 one year old Douglas Fir trees on oor 10 acre harvest plot.
Two bags of 100 seedlings left for me and the two teenager neighbor boys to grass sod cut out and perimeter plant in the next week or so.
Sorry no pictures of the tree planters in action. Would have been rude, and might have caused a walk-off.
Picture of one of the property rock piles. Ha! Ha! If your property growns rock; then you make use of it growing don’t care trees.
Regards
Steve Unruh
Three years now since my last activity post on “Spring” tree planting.
Of the ~3000 Douglas Fir’s eventually planted that year of 2015 there has been an over 90% survival rate. Always a few do not make it past this tree year period. Some unable to survive the 4-6 week long late summer drought. A few just too much pee-marked by walking through critters at territorial markers. (my own dogs contributing!)
And one property edge I’ve had to replant THREE times next to an adjacent neighbor. Grrr.
I had also tried to fill in three never grown DF spots on the east side with 60 western red cedars. Winter wet areas from rain-snow pooled water. 16 of these survived. Mice knaw damaged took out the others.
New year. New Spring coming up and the annual forestry association seedling tree sale is next week.
Looking at now a combo of Red Alder, Oregon Ash, Vine Maple, or Pacific Willow to fill in these winter wet foot spots now.
Needs to be clustered up enough for the same-same species to common support. All trees with needles, leaf and sap drops foster a soil environment to nurture their young.
Why it is so damn hard to do never-been conversions.
Regards
tree-farmer Steve unruh
DonM, I remembered wrong. Initially on the 10 acres it was 2800 DF seedlings.
So ~280 per acre. The State and big commercial foresters plant at 400-500 per acre. This is to crowd out other voluntary growth. Make-sure to compensate for elk and porcupine damages. They then have to do a 15 and 30 year waste-thinning, and then a light harvest thinning to get down to a 170-200 matured tree harvest per acre at 50-60 years.
Ha! Instead of over planted thinning I have obligated myself to re-plant fill in’s. Didi some bucket hand watering the first two years.
Now. Be out a few hundreds hours this year forestry HD string-eating noxious weeds, brush and berry vines. After the last heavy snow melt off I hustled to blue flag mark the DF slow growers in the flattened down grasses. REAL easy to get tired made oblivious and string bark one of these 3 year olds. Opps. Three years lost set back then. Replanting and nurturing. Again.
I do not use general arena all broadcast forestry herbicides like they do. They only grow for max harvest. I/we promote a true all species forest. Want no herbicide-foot-rot and white-fur die in the deer we see.
tree-farmer Steve unruh
I don’t know much about forestry, but I remember watching a TV show from Finland where some of the locals were talking about many of the same sorts of things Steve says.
They only selectively cut and often use horses in rough areas to protect the soil.
Health of the soil and careful stewardship means they have a smaller but constant income from property.
They have game to hunt and the bio diversity reduces the amount of problems caused by insects.
Not like that were I live.
What timber was not cut was killed by SO2 emissions right and the ground eroded down to bare blacked rock.
Forty years on the forest is regenerating but because the diversity is gone its not strong and healthy.
Some years you can hear the tent caterpillars munching and their poo dropping at night sound like rain as they strip the Poplars of leaves.
The next year it will be another insect that attacks the remaining Birch.
Then the Pines will be attached by beetles.
Cycle repeats until enough diversity returns and nature balances out.
These days they are introducing large chunks of soil from several hundred miles away to get a more diverse mix of plants and insects to come in.
Some of this is working and I see hardwoods and other trees I am not familiar coming back, but it will take probably several lifetimes to undo the damage we did to this area with pollution and cut and strip forestry.
This is not photo shopped.
This place is real and its near where I work.
It feels like I work in Mordor and it makes your heart sink.
Sigh. I see that i really did not spacing answer your question DonM.
Space planted at an irregular 11-13 feet spacing.
According to the Clark County Farm forestry Association ( see my “Farm” topic name is not an assumption) finished grown Douglas Firs will need an individual tree spread of 12-20 feet. Mature height of 150 feet. Fast growth rate. Prefers: Full Sun. Soil preference of: Sandy, loam, clay. But not too damp. Native to my area.
All of the deciduous I am going to try in my wet areas are natives. 15-80 foot mature heights. 10-15 to 40 foot spreads. All fast growing. All with tolerance to moist, damp and on the willows even flooded soils.
My mountain ash limb wind harvest I am using as an all-weather walking stick is working out better than any I’ve ever used. Bad-days I lean into it a lot. And I’ve found many of my European tool handles are actually ash-woods.
Willow are supposed to be wet areas drying out trees. Willows are supposed to de-nitrofy our ground waters. Willow wood charcoal is supposed to be the best for black gunpowder making. Artist charcoals.
Wallace I did like your post because we do not have a sad-to-see button.
I am getting old and cranky. I see what I remember as once treed woodlot properties now converted to my-ATM shoulder to shoulder tract housing as just as sad, short sighted. Futile. Stoopid. Consumer/banker/investor, spin-culture madness.
Could be a sign
Concentrated evil deep from the banksters offices and board rooms primeval.
Contains metals its acidic and leaches them out of the tailing.
Not far from it is a maroon pond and other side of the road is a blue/green one.
I wish there were no places like this too Steve.
Its just wrong.
They have license to exceed pollution standards and a variance from the province to protect them from lawsuits to crop and property damage.
It’s madness how we let this happen over and over.
Accident with tailings at another plant, people died int he tide of toxic goo…
Now I am going to stop this because I am ruining your excellent thread with my off topic
