I'll Take the THIRD Option

It seems I will be finishing out my life as I learned in my teenage years opting-out of the always too overly simplistic simple-think: “You are either for me. Or against me” dictators.
With me insisting, searching out, and finding (or creating), a third viable way.

With the maths defined small-active-volume very internally velocity-dependent “Imbert” types as promoted as the only-best way.
With the now results proven re-developed large-active-volume very internally temperature-dependent old-town gasworks/current WK’s promoted as the best way to DIY vehicle woodgas.
The third wayS to run IC engines using wood as the base fuel stock?
Wood charcoal systems.
Hybrid mixed component/processes systems. This is mine actual. I use a velocity-dependent small-active volume hearth core. Then immediately abandon velocity dependencies after the grate and go with ash/soots settlement systems. No more need-velocity cyclones for me! No more shear-edge CO ripping mixers for me!

The third-way will always be the best for YOUR OWN way.
No you, versus me, involved at all.
I opt “the you” out of it completely.

Same thing with the Chevy versus Ford dictators in my life. Sometimes, maybe. Depends. More often I’ve chosen AMC, IHC, Dodge, Volvo, or an another.
But, but, butt! those are not pure integrated manufacturers vehicles, the you-must-choose Ford&Chevy guys would say! Morphydites! Made up of lowest cost bidder mixed spec components.
Wrong again purist dictators.
Pick the right AMC/IHC/Dodge/Volvo and you get the cherry-picked out best/most durable of worldwide available components.
I’ve never personally owed a Jeep. Worked on a ton of them though. Best of the bunch in mine and other Tech’s opinions would be a 2nd/3rd gen Grand Cherokee with the AMC derived I-6 engine; Asian Warner 4 speed OD auto; the Chrysler corporate 9" read axle. Ha! And you get world class best Nippon Denso primary electrical components included along.
Nope. No, Jeep in my future.
I do just fine with the wifie’s old cast off made-in-Korea 1st gen somewhat world-components mixed spec Hyundai Tucson. Ha! Take that Toyota versus Honda versus Nissan purist you-must-choose ONE,insistent’s.

Again: the best way for you, will always be YOUR own chosen way.

I could go on.
But since I’ve already tread on politics, I’d best not hit religion or sex, eh.
Just do realize as soon as someone waves you-must loyalty-flags; insists on loyalties oaths; insists on loyalty clothing/uniforms: they are the whacko’s.
Treat them as the crazy deluded, demented, they are.
Walk away.
Do not look back.
Do not listen.
Do not engage.

Ha! Now you know what makes me so ornery. And seeming contrary. I understand me quite well.
“The man in the mirror” Be your own man. True to yourself.
Steve unruh


I think pretty much all of us are guilty of this (I could be wrong) But I think most of us getting started in woodgas immediately want to change it and make it their own design. Then the old timers / experienced builders chime in and say OOOoohh Nooo you cant do that, just build an Imbert gasifier. Only for good reason, so that you learn a proven working system first. The part after this; after you have a working system is when you can improve; however, I dont think most are looking at the later part where you can think outside the box once you have achieved the basic working foundation to build off from. So there seems to me anyways that there is some sort of stigma that has been created but I think it is un intentional.

I was once a newbie and oh boy did I have some crazy ideas. But I did take the advice and built a number of machines before I had a working engine capable build.

I have now pretty much scrapped early concepts, only retaining the down draft principles with the velocity driven priolysis / oxidation zone and then low velocity processes afterward. Plus Im now combining charcoal reactors infusing / integrating this into the system.

I have scratched my head a lot thinking why are we doing it this way? Isnt there an easier way? Then I have to think the Imbert is what 60 year old design right? Ok well how would you go about building a gasifier 60 years ago. They did not have CNC equipment back then and typically manufacturing was never mature enough to justify for stamped parts.

So this is when I scrapped the tiers, That whole hearth set up can be made with basic hand tools and grinder. But it is complex especial once you start playing with air preheat. But to manufacture them over and over and make them all the same is expensive and a challenge and this just one example in manufacturing process. So for me Im thinking well I have a CNC machine I can very easily cut out perfect rings to replace the jets and I did just that. But for the average Joe with out a CNC machine making those flanges may prove to be difficult.

First time builders yeah stick to something that works, learn experience it. But after that, have at it make it yours, improve it and make it better. This technology has plenty of room to be improved but you do need to learn to walk before you run.


The part about Chevy or Ford made me laugh. I worked in a manufacturing plant which was very much a Ford crowd when I bought my 2005 Chevy duramax. But I told everyone I bought an Alison transmission it just happened to come with an Isuzu motor and Chevy body. Actually I bought the motor too even though it was one of the first years of production because we had the old Isuzu diesels in our skidsteer loaders and you couldn’t kill them. Anyway all that to say yes I agree the brand isn’t important the components being what you want is what matters.


No need to use more words… Its always the operator that makes the difference…


Yes.Yes. Wood-for-power and really in all things meaningful it comes down to the actual user/operator.
I can prepare foods. My wife and one of three sister can really cook! Creatively. From near nothing.

Kristian in Slovenia just put up a post how on his Mercedes he opted out of his now age defunct complicated German Bosch FI and fabbed-in a Made-in-Russia simple float bowl gasoline carburetor. Ha! Retaining the Bosch cold start enrichment injector for special purposes.
Sure. Sure. Make for a more complex operators using woodgas experience alright.
Dutch John had tri-fueling on his last Chevy pickup system. Woodgas primary fueling. Retained the propane mixer system. Added a small side draft gasoline carburetor for those cold-cold starting times. For the just trundle in-out of the garage times.
Complex? Not really. Just have to be trained/experienced to use the manual shut-off and diversion valves.

Now. Contrast this with the huge amount of designing, fabrication; and when it NOT works later; needed to make systems “as easy to use as any other modern one button to use appliance”. “So my honey/sweetie can use it too”
This is actually insulting to woman. My wife, and ALL three of my sisters would whack me good insulting them this way!
Yet I still see many . . . many even here on the DOW; not focusing on operator use-training. Spending 4/5th their efforts to try and achieve the impossible. Make a byproducts generating grudge-making, bio-chemical processes system stupid easy to use…
Arrgh! Most woman in general do better than most men at children tending and raising. Heck of a lot of, “grunge-making” cleaning ups; again and again, in the bio-chemical processes of that.
The obligation of the woodgas builder is to put all of the control points in centralized and logical order. Means ALL of the switches; ON is up. OFF is down. Valving controls consistent. IN for normal running. Pulled OUT for intermittent usage.
Clockwise for closed. CCW for open. Handles UP for Open. Handles DOWN for Closed.

Maintenance points I’ll admit are the bugger-do.
They really do need to be at points of accumulation. But ANY damn beauty cover get thrown out by Practicals like me. And I’ll cut and edge debur access holes. Cursing you, the Designer all of the way.
And the needs-maintenance times can be fabricated/made to time-out similar.
VesaM on his trailer systems has done the best work in the world on single same-side accessing, and simplifying woodgas system maintenance’s.
He sets the achievement bar on this critical aspect.

New “modern” didgetal is NOT the do-all, end all, for user simplification either.
My wife loved our older dishwasher. Individual inline set-buttons for modes selection. Twisty timer dial for timed/start operation. She hates the new smooth face all-electronic controlled dish washer. Barely tactile select/control buttons. With the same button used for three/four different purposed depending if quick pressed; multiple-times pressed; push-and-held for one second; push-and-held for more than three seconds.
Designed by video gamer’s, you-need-to-know, video games players! Working tools should not be challenging game-players.
At least this newer use-less-water dishwasher does NOT require screw apart disassembly to clean it’s out-of-sight pump/drain filter! An improvement to a see-need-DO, lift-out, system.
My wife loved her old four stage-filtering needed-to-clean Filter Queen vacuum. Has sold herself now on a needs four points emptied/cleaned Shark vacuum.
Me. I’ll just grab and use the much easier disposable bag Panasonic canister; or my new/old one disposable bag Kirby K3 power wheeled upright.
Both logical to maintain. Hands clean. And NO cough-cough creating service designs. Want them HEPA? Buy the more expensive bags!
Versus “Best” bagless HEPA capable at Testing. But not real-use achievable without eight to ten steps of point-by-point, very careful servicing of their complex systems.

Really guys in working tools and systems the designers/manufacturers should never insult the users by dumbing them down.
Not relie on woo-woo; advanced features; sex-sells; to carry their brand users forward.
Ain’t gonna be anymore Samsung home appliances bought in my family of me and my sisters!
An advanced features three-door refrigerator that kept defrost drains clogging up from air-dust&pollen’s grown scum. Obvious not for wood&pellet heating households! Only for HEPA central conditioned houses.
Our newest cloths dryer a Samsung that is internally shaking itself loose. Making more and more noises at just three years. Replaced the 18 year old Maytag. We should have payed just a bit more - for less advanced features; for more engineering goal’ed durability.



Hey. I did edit out my first post here to get rid of my political-grumping comments. Tread on this forums guidelines.
But boy oh, boy was it hard.
Another USA national election cycle ramping up (12 in my voting life-time) with the red-elephants, and the blue-donkeys both insisting that I must lock-into their we-all-must-stomple-togather, two-sided coin flip.

Using raw wood for engines.
You learn well that your limb chunks need to be in 1x1x1 cut/chunked portion. What some call actually billets.
You do not want them end flat side stacking blocking flows.
Or, as 1xlongx1 sticks then side-by-side flows blocking. And worse; long round side to side unconverted gases channeling.

So much of my lifetime Making-a-Third-Option has consisted of taking others dictated mis-porpotioned either/or flatsided coin choices . . . . glue stacking these together into 1x1x1 goes around portioned choices.
Just as likely to fall on their now wider roll’s around changeable sides then as stuck one Dictator flat side heads-up, or tails-down positions.

Ha! And I’m reasonable about this. Sometimes you do want to choose one made flat side versus the round/rolling edge or the other flat side.
It is the wear-all-black face-masked Portland street riotous who insist on always having their way. Or we will block the streets&sidewalks. Clog&break the systems. Selfishly run up the for-all public service costs by the millions. Area exclude out all normal activities.
Dictators even when one-named, require minions: Servitors to endure.
Dictates-of-the-Crowd only really serve themselves. They ignore all others in different stages of life with different needs, and capabilities.

Be neither the Servitor, or the Crowd-Sheeple body pile’er.

Be yourself. For yourself. With courtesy and kindness for others to do for themselves also.
Steve Unruh


Lots of innovation comes from people not knowing that something can’t be done that way. I would worry that any industry that relies on teaching the newcomers the only right way to do something risks losing out on earth changing inspiration born out of ignorance.


Third option, Huh. Not sure what that is. I’ve never rooted for any team. Never played team sports. Never joined social media. Never protested or campaigned. Don’t drink or socialize. At the Energetic Forum, they asked me to write about the economy. I have zero “friends” there. I joined no groups there. My profile page has 18,000 views. ?? maybe, I’m controversial ? I logged timber and built my log cabin solo. For years, I worked solo rebuilding cars and trucks.
I went to college for 20 minutes. That was enough to convince me that I didn’t belong there.
I worked 10 years as a mechanic for the motorhome caravans to Mexico and Alaska, travelling solo. My 1995 Dakota is the newest vehicle I own. Everything else is diesel or, has points. I just bought 16 secluded acres in Oregon. I plan to build a house from shipping containers. I never take out loans or borrow money.
I carried a 1A draft card in 1968 but, got lucky. I don’t do well with discipline :slight_smile: I worked as a non-degreed engineer at Sportscoach but, they kept shoving me behind a desk. No desk for me. I switched over to working on heavy equipment. I have to be active.

I’ve never known any way except for the third option.


You sound like the type of person that made America Great. You have to have all kinds of people who think and work diffently for this to happen in a society.


Thanks, Bob. Dunno what to say. I come from a family of 9 kids. My father was a general contractor and, I started working at age 8. Feeding #12 wire into conduits, digging ditches and threading galvanized pipe.
The people who make America great are the people who have a good work ethic. Unfortunately, all biological species have a natural inclination to conservation of energy. It is a survival thing to preserve energy. Unfortunately, many people have an inclination to steal or depend entirely on the work of others. This de-motivates those who see the fruits of their labor stolen by people who game the system. That’s why socialism never works.
The beggars, bankers and bureaucrats are forever stealing the sustenance from those who actually produce it. The ratio of producers-to-non producers has gotten quite skewed. America needs people who want to work.


I don’t think so. That is why we are building a wall on our south boarder. Businesses that are taking advantage of these people need to be hit hard by the government; hard enough that they begin to realize paying a legitimate wage is better than paying fines. Much more to be said but I will drop it here. TomC


Well said WilliamB. Well said.
You got it. The point of this topic.
Choose your own way. That way will be the best for you. Others trying to convince you are serving their needs, not yours.

Same story as your for me.
Just change the times and numbers little bit.
My 1A year was 71/72.
Three sisters, but no brothers put the onus on me.
Ha! I do discipline poorly also.
Like you CAN discipline myself to achieve. But only if I see the importance.
Like that early college experience. I lasted two hour on a Biology 101 class. Hmmm. Kiss-ass on the ultra-green instructor just to get the grade and forwarding on? Only to look forward to more indoctrinating spin-on’s. And I am out 8 hours a day mechanizing to pay for this at nights?
Kept the book. Walk-away. To keep my cool.

No desk-binding by me either.
Phone service and instruction guide writing was my trap.
“But Steve. You do it so well.”
Had to throw that hook more than once.

Just keep on living the dream; your dream man
Steve unruh

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As some of you have probably noticed, the economy isn’t doing very well. I want to clear up where the fault lies.
In the '20s, things were really roaring. That was because the banks took all the depositors money and speculated on everything. After the onset of Great Depression One, congress passed the Glass-Steagal act to separate the investment banks from the retail banks.
Fast forward; slick Willy teamed up with Greenspan to push through the Graham-Bliley-Leachy act That undid the Glass-Steagal act. 90 senators voted for approval.
This gave all your savings to the speculative bankers. They bought up everything in sight and, resold it to the eventual consumer. They front-ran EVERYTHING. Everything that you buy or rent was previously bought up by a speculator using your money.
Not satisfied with this, the bankers took all the 401k money and invested it in China. They knew that there is more return on capital doing manufacturing in a low-wage country than in a high-wage country. Once again, your savings were used to undermine your job.
When China was a land of rice paddies, it was given most favored nation (MFN) trading status. As your money was invested and, China became more of a powerhouse manufacturing nation, congress tried to remove the MFN status.
Bush blocked this. https://www.everycrsreport.com/reports/98-603.html
Even to this day, with China having the second largest economy, they still enjoy trade advantages for their MFN status.
Now, I did name 2 politicians, even though I’m trying to avoid politics here.
Great Depression One was created, to a great extent, by the actions of FED head, Benjamin Strong. He was illegally speculating in U.S. Treasury securities. Greenspan can be credited with much of the manipulation that brought the housing crash.
Other FED heads like Ruben can be credited with getting rid of America’s gold.
JFK started printing U.S. Treasury notes, as opposed to Federal reserve notes. He was killed a few months later. LBJ stopped the printing 11 days later. The silver was sold off as fast as possible so that nobody would get the wise idea of backing America’s money with metal.
The Welfare-warfare state was created in the '60s. It necessitated so much money printing that other countries demanded gold instead of paper dollars. In the summer of '71, gold was leaving the treasury at the rate of 100 tons a week. Nixon closed the gold window on August 15th. The BIG problem was that the British Government on August 11, had notified the Treasury that Britain would be coming by to pick up 1/3 of the remaining 8900 tons of gold. Nixon stiffed the London bankers. He was subsequently impeached for this. The excuse was that he had lied about exactly when he learned about the Watergate breakin. A minor charge.
I know that I have wandered away from the topic of the thread.
Martin Armstrong’s super computer program that has been right about everything is projecting a collapse of the world economy on january 18. People of the third option will be looked upon by their friends and families to get them through.