Well said Billy, Personally I have lived my 64 years trying to help others when I can,and not worried about what others have, or do.
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In a gadda da vida, honey
Donāt you know that Iām lovinā you
In a gadda da vida, baby
Donāt you know that Iāll always be true
Oh, wonāt you come with me
And take my hand
Oh, wonāt you come with me
And walk this land
Please take my hand
In a gadda da vida, honey
Donāt you know that Iām lovinā you
In a gadda da vida, baby
Home of the Brave
Oh God of Hell
I said I love the suit
That the devil gave me
To wear to Beirut
Where the whores are dancing
On the table tops
And the jukebox plays
Apocalyptic bebop
Well I love Paris
I love the dizzy streets
Where the flowers of sin
Bloom in the heat
If I were a ghost
Iād be pleased
Living among these
French mysteries
But the place to goās
Another latitude
Where Jesus is wearing
His blue suede shoes
And the pink neon lights
Up the thoroughfares
Between what is
And whatās not there
You know the place
Itās not too far away
Letās take a trip
To the Home of the Brave
Forget about London
Forget about Spain
Get out of New York
Take the Train to the Plane
Hong Kong smells like dying fish
And Berlin still stinks of Auschwitz
I wanna go where the wild things play
I wanna go to theā¦
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hear hearā¦ thumbs up
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Billy; Someone with the virus can pass the virus on to you which may eventually kill you the same death as being shot by my gun.
How many Billyās am I talking to here. One post you say it is āhellariousā, which is how it was said, with tongue in cheek. Then you say, āweāre not talking about shooting people. Weāre talking about breathingā Iām talking about killing people, one way or another. TomC
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Yes, communism, where the state controls the means of production, and decides what will be produced and how much of it. It is a terrible system, and I do not believe I am advocating it in any sense. I am promoting the idea of progressive taxation of a capitalist society. This is not a crazy idea, and we are already doing it. I am just saying we should do it a little bit more. Maybe a lot more. American did this in the past - tax rates on the highest earners used to range up to 90+% Historical Highest Marginal Income Tax Rates | Tax Policy Center
This is sadly an understatement. It is up to congress to decide how our taxes are spent, and their approval rating has been somewhere in the 17-31% range lately. And I will confess that I am among those who disapprove. ā¢ U.S. Congress - public approval rating 2022 | Statista
Sorry, starving is probably the wrong thing to say; I did not mean to imply people who are dying of famine. I am talking about food insecurity, which I understand affects millions of Americans. I am talking about kids not getting enough to eat, people skipping meals because they cannot afford to eat 3 square meals, that sort of thing. I have lived a very fortunate life, and I have not seen these things first-hand. Compared to the suffering in other parts of the world, perhaps it seems trivial. I think if we are going hold ourselves up as an example to the world, though, nobody in the richest nation on earth should have to worry about their next meal.
I think this is a very valid point. I am not really doing anything to help those less fortunate than myself, and I hope I have not implied that I am. I feel like this dovetails well into the debate on face masks, actually.
The first idea: that we should have complete personal freedom, but with a sense of duty (we are not forced to wear masks/help others, but we do anyway because we want to be good members of society)
The other idea: We should be compelled to do the right thing by a democratic process where everyone decides on what the best approach is, and then makes everyone do it.
The insight I just had is that, I feel like I am not likely to help others unless I am compelled to do it - and consequently I suspect the rest of the world is like me. You Billy, feel like you are not compelled to help people, but you do anyway, and maybe that makes you think others will act that way too? Is there any truth to that?
The problem that I see is that if enough people were noble, altruistic, and filled with a sense of duty, we would not have so many problems. As a concrete example, Sweden tried to give its citizens the freedom to do the right thing, and it did not go well.
Anyway, This conversation has been enlightening for me, and has given me some new things to think about.
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Every problem in the world be it personal or societal can be eliminated by following 2 commandments, love God, love your neighbor as yourself, problems solved.
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Just one of me Tom. ā¦Well, maybe there are more of us in hereā¦LOLā¦if there are, How would I actually know? ā¦Anyway, I think itās only one.
I both find it funny how you said it Tom, AND I think there are many people to whom it could be beneficial to realize (in sincerity, not tongue-in-cheek)) that there is a difference between breathing and shooting people.
(If there is not, then we also might need to include the driving of your car, or the investment of your money, or your spending of money, or casting of a vote, or any of a million other actions you might take that could result in my death. If we are going to consider human breath a deadly weapon, and regulate it as such, then there is nothing that is not fair game to the same reasoning. Thatās the only logical thing to do. That said, I think every decent human being should be doing all they can to spare anyone else any harm.)
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Well Carl, I personally give credit to God for this factā¦to the extent that it is true. Before I knew God, I did not act that way. So I do not want to sound like I am taking credit for being good or something like that. IF there is good in what i am doing, credit the Father, not me.
That said, I am very practical and I hope pretty logical. I am not naive enough to think that everyone will ādo the right thingā just because they can.
I do believe that if the government was not in what I consider to be the churchās function, namely, taking care of the less fortunate, more individuals would step up personally to fill the void. I also think there would be less of a void to fill because management of those resources would be done at local community levels where people can look into the situations and lives of people wanting others to take care of them, and some of those āneedsā would rightly be deemed āwantsā.
I also believe there would be failures and some legitimate cases would slip through the cracks.
And there would be a great many who currently believe that they need others to take care of them that would step up and stop being lazy leaches or maybe just starve to death, or get shot while trying to carjack someone.
I also think that people receiving help from others would probably not be getting expensive phones and service plans and ā¦andā¦andā¦But what they āneedā as determined by the people doing the helping, which seems about right and proper.
But, as much as can be said about the shortcomings of an altruism-based system, more can be pointed out about a big-government-forced-altruism system. But maybe I am speaking from my Bible-belt cultural view where virtually everyone believes it is good to take care of the poor, and billions of dollars are given by church people to help the poor of the world on top of the taxes they pay to maintain the welfare state as it exists already.
Simply put. Itās not that I think that individual people, when left with the responsibility to take care of it, will function perfectly. It is that I think it is the best and only really meaningful way to do it at all.
The āwar on povertyā in America started when? How many billions have been spent in the effort? Is that really the answer? Are the inner cities better off because of it, or worse? I could be wrong, I just donāt think it is the answer. I think a call to repentance from bad works toward personal responsibility is the only real route to regeneration. I believe the entire concept of welfare works whole-heartedly against this concept. That is my experience in various cultures around the world on the mission field too. Thatās why we try to work in development and not so much in aid/relief.
Is that an admission that you and the rest of the world lacks character and conviction to do the right thing?
Perhaps this is why so many in our society kick back so strongly against this way of thinking concerning forced altruismā¦You seem to lack the conviction that you would like to have in your own beliefs that would make you act upon them. In order to muster up the conviction to act on your own, you want to force everyone else to have the same convictions so they will force you to act without you having to be a man of strong enough convictions. It is incredibly difficult for a person to follow a leader or an ideal that is not firmly held by the person forcing it upon them, as evidenced by their actions.
I find it strange that you acknowledge that I am altruistic while I am not compelled to be by law, and that you and the rest of the world are not unless you would be forced to be so by law. Your solution to your lack of altruism is to force me into a legal compulsion to be altruisticā¦which you say I already am.
How did I inherit the responsibility for the character weakness of everyone else? Why does the guy who is voluntarily self sacrificing placed under bondage by the guy who is not? How does that make any sense?
Me too. I hope no one thinks there is any kind of anger or conflict in this discourse. There is certainly not any here on my part. I know some get nervous about anything that even smells like political debate. But I really enjoy the discussion myself.
Al, Amen
Alright, enough opining. I need to get ready to preach tomorrow. LOL.
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To me it sounds as people having the same opinion but seen m a different perspectiveā¦
What i take from it, do good, think good, speak goodā¦
For me personally, i like to give what i decide that i can give, i hate it when people try to take from me for whatever reasonā¦
I enjoy reading experiences from people that are doing goodā¦ it encourage me to be similarā¦
I have lost my believe in religion, but i wonāt loose my faith in good peopleā¦
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Same sameā¦
Same same
Did I miss something?
Are we talking Covid here? As far as I know US and Sweden have similar numbers.
Our avarage death rates are back to normal and I think most Swedes hardly noticed this pandemic, (apart from the shortage of toilet paper first week of March). Personally I havenāt seen one single Swede wearing a mask during these months. People go to work, visit stores and restuarants. We stay a little further apart when we line up in front of a counter, thatās about it. The only thing I can think of, that is not allowed, is to arrange an event for more than 50 people. I guess sports, concerts and such suffer.
However, we did fail when it comes to protecting our elderly. This was said to be the no1 priority from start. Yet 80% of our deaths were age 70+. Most of them in nurcing homes. Strict rules were applied and no visitors allowed. Elderly suffered a lot from not being able to meet their loved ones. Still, we failed to protect them and noone seems to know what we could have done differently.
However 2: Weāre probably not even close to be able to read the bottom line. Also, different parts of the world are in different stages of the pandemic. Too early to compare strategies and numbers.
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I think this statistic will be a tell all if this is all overā¦ but it aināt over yetā¦
My opinion ? if Sweden just would have added the masks the numbers would be down and a lot less than nowā¦
Same goes for my home country Belgiumā¦
I just donāt get itā¦ its respiratoryā¦ first thing you do then ?
First thing the neighbor countryās from China did ? Yess, masks , masksā¦
But then, in SE Asia, using masks are more common and more frequent used ( pm 2,5 )
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Agree. Let me rephrace: Our avarage death rates are back to normal FOR NOW 
Testing has proven to be somewhat unreliable and noone knows if weāre even close to herd immunity yet. We donāt even know for how long immunity will last. Only time will tell.
Even hospitals and such ran out of masks. I guess we could all have made our own but authorities stressed the easiest and most effektive step was to keep following the basic recommendations:
-Stay home if you have the slightest sympthome.
-Keep distance. Especially to elderly.
-Wash your hands.
After all the goal was not to try to stop the spread, but to slow it down enough for the healthcare to cope and not to interfere with every day life more than necessary.
Belgium: Thereās a HUGE difference in population density. 370 p/km2 vs 24 in Sweden. I guess masks would do more good there than here.
Iām extreemly greatful weāre given the freedom to make our own decisions. I feel sorry for people in Italy and Spain for example. Imagine not being allowed to leave your house or apartment for months. To be forced to show police documents to be allowed go buy groceries. And thatās no bull. Neighbours of ours got their son (exchange student) back from Spain a couple weeks back. Heās been pretty much locked up down there since all this started.
In my opinion we have to start putting things in perspective. A lot more people die from heart disease, but noone would dream of banning cream and butter. Someone mentioned traffic a while back. Same thing.
Iām not at all advocating to be sloppy about protecting yourself and others from this virus, but someone said not to let the cure get more painful than the disease.
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Good morning Billy;
I thought you just got ready. Frankly, I never read dissertations that long. TomC
Good morning JO;
And you must be pretty good at it. You have convinced me that living in Sweden is nothing like I thought. You like it and tolerate it just as I do with the US.
What does that mean? We are boque larger than Sweden in most every way, including virus cases. And WE are climbing each week according to what our liberal media tells us. I wouldnāt compare anyoneās death rate to the US. I am not knowledgeable in the subject, but it is reported that if I die of a heart attack, and during investigation, it is found I have the virusā my death goes down as a virus death.
Frankly, all this talk about the Covid Virus, and I really donāt know what it is. Is it like a bad cold, or more like the flue, or maybe emp-fa-cema, or even lung cancer. They keep posting how many people have it, and that the hospitals are crowed, and the number that die. How many get it and get over it, staying home. How many go to the hospital and come home after how many days? Kind of hard to get concerned about it when all you know is the media throws out new numbers every day. I hear that 3 people have it in my county, but none in my town, and no one I know, nor hopefully no one in my family. I think that testing is a joke. It takes over 2 weeks to get the results and in 2 weeks it is reported, the virus could have run itās course.
Out of respect for others, I will wear a mask in public. At 82 I am no long concerned about dying. TomC
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Iām going to try to post without stepping on anybodyās toes. It is a safe assumption that everybody here is some kind of āproducerā My login at Burning Man was āCanāt sit stillā. I generally work 7 days a week. I always have some kind of project. Thatās how Iām wired. VERY often we can not put ourselves in other peopleās shoes. It is just TOO alien. Try to put yourself in the mindset of a parasite. You canāt really do it. Try to think like a predatory parasite. TOO dirty and too alien. Think about a life where you prey on everybody that you encounter.
Think about people who have no particular skills, no particular ambition, no ability to be productive. They must steal physical support from the producers. Politics is a dirty job that has no attraction to people who are strictly moral. Politics always involves selling your soul to the highest bidder. You worm your way into a position of control over the producers. Big Pharma gives a couple $ billion a year to politicians.
Most people thrive from creating a family, a business. Politicians thrive the most with the greater number of people they control. With very few exceptions, politicians never depart from self-interest. The electorate become slightly more important at election time.
At election time, the Pols promise to give you some of the money they stole in previous years. You worked 120 days this year until tax-free day. The politicians are 100% focused on control.
What about the bankers? When capital was scarce, they expertly directed scarce capital to the best investments. Capital is no longer scarce and, the bankers have no function that benefits society.
Both bankers and politicians are self-serving parasites. Insider trading has always been illegal. Congress voted to make insider trading legal for congress.
Socialism is the firewall between Darwinian pressures and, the non-producers.
Socialism is the firewall for the non-eliteānon-producers.
Fascism is the firewall for the elite non-producers
The America safety net for the middle class costs about $1.5 trillion.
The American safety net for the rich costs about $15 trillion.
Wages are the means for the producer to connect to become a consumer. Automation and out-sourcing has broken this linkage. The middle class has inadequate income. The moneyed class is buoyed by liquidity injections from up on high.
" 5 stocks have just added over half a trillion in market cap in just 6 days. Six days. Ponder that:
5 stocks now have a combined market cap over $6.5 trillion.
These very same stocks have added over $1.6 trillion in market cap in 2020:"
So, the hyperinflation has invaded the upper loop. Eventually, gravity will take over.
āIt gets worse. Since 2019 these stocks have added over $3.2 trillion in market cap:ā
The other big problem is; America was founded as a republic because all democracies fail. Over the years, the poison of democracy / socialism has invaded the system. With democracy, politicians buy votes with your money. A republic is better suited.
Three years ago, 51% of Americas received a check from GOV. Everyone from beggars to defense contractors. FED GOV spent 24% of the gdp into circulation. It ran 57% for France. Two Years ago, GOV had 22 million employees.
Priceās Law says that the square root of this number is doing 1/2 the work. 6240 people are actually working.
More importantly, Parkinsonās Law states that a State bureaucracy will grow by 6% a year, regardless of the work load. That is made painfully clear in the instance of the bureaucratic overlay of the EU on top of existing European bureaucracy. I refer to this enormous mass of bureaucrats as the BLOB STATE. The blob state is only interested in perpetuating itself. Like a typical parasite, it has no concerns for the host.
You will find the Blob state infested into every corner of the economy.
New Jersey spends $1,109,142 to maintain one mile of 2-lane highway.
Arkansas spends $37,000 to maintain 1 mile of 2 lane highway. California is up close to $1 million.
Our current economy is so infested with non-producers that America has resorted to printing $1 trillion a month to support all the bankers, beggars and bureaucrats.
The total control of the New world order is to be a financial guarantee of wages to bankers and bureaucrats who arenāt the slightest productive.
Here is the outline of the Great Reset that is being sprung on us now.
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/world-economic-forum-institution-behind-great-reset
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Hi Tom,
Over here i have a friend, also expat, had some pre existing conditions, 75 y old, was in need for bypass / stent, did got somehow infected with Covidā¦
Short story: he got sick, was on ventilator for 3 weeks, recovered, went home, at home he got a few strokes / blood cloths
Now he is recovering againā¦
His words: You donāt want to have thisā¦ you donāt want to go thru thisā¦
For the numbers: average 10% of the infected will get severe complicationsā¦
30% of those die during treatment, quite a few get complications afterwardsā¦
World average 5% of the infected people dieā¦
Lets sink those numbers inā¦
This is no joke, this is seriousā¦
Yes, from those numbers a lot would have died from other reasons anyway or another, but eventually we all dieā¦ and Covid 19 is probably not the way you want to goā¦
Yes, those simple basicsā¦ It leaves us with the question: why is not everybody following those simple things ?
Yes, that is actual the only way to go, with following basic common sense , but some are disagreeingā¦
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Did you mean larger than the Swedish?
I was obviously not talking total numbers. I was refering to deaths per million or whatever. Comparable numbers.
We will probably never know for sure about those numbers. Like you said, statistics seem to be handeled differently in different countries.
From what I heard this virus causes flue symphtomes mostly. Affects lungs.
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Normal flu anyone ?
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