So does the temperature of the gas affect how much tar is in it? Will cooling it to room temperature or close help?
Also on a side note the mechanics of this forum, the way its posted and set up is amazing.
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If the temp in the glowing heart of a wood gasifier is high enough tar will burn and not slip through. Cooling is just to condence moisture out of the gas and make it more denst.
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Hi Joshua.
About 4 months ago, I had a goal similar to yours, and was entirely new to charcoal gasification.
I built a simple fire charcoal gasifier and had a generator running pretty quick (you can build a simple fire in a weekend).
Since we are at similar stages of learning, you might find it interesting to look at my thread.
There are people here with decades of experience and knowledge on this subject. You have definitely come to the right place.
I will give you my thoughts on your project to help get you “jump started.”
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I would strongly consider a charcoal gasifier, such as the simple fire, for your first gasifier. These work well in a “generator” setting, and they are significantly easier to build than a wood gasifier, and you are very unlikely to damage your engine with them.
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I don’t know how big of a generator you want to build. I just built another one, which you can see near the bottom of my thread. If 7200 watt continuous, 10,000 watt peak sounds sufficient for your needs, then you might want to try something like that. I am very pleased with it. The only change I would make is to go with the larger v-twin 22 hp predator engine, if you want to make full rated power from charcoal gas. You could build such a generator (gasifier and all) for around $1,300.
However, you don’t have to “tear up” your existing generator to try it on charcoal gas. It is pretty easy to adapt it to charcoal gas, then go back to gasoline. You can build a simple fire for probably $200 if you scrounge up some parts, and try it. It is very unlikely to damage your generator in any way.
3 The only problem I have not solved yet is the life of the “nozzle” for the gasifier. You will be reading about that. There is a seperate thread which discusses nozzles for charcoal gasifiers. If you want a quick solution and want to stick with the simple fire design, look at Dave’s nozzle. He basically casts refractory cement around the nozzle. He reports a life of over 100 hours on those nozzles. Which is not bad. If you want to consider significantly changing the design, then I would think about a “hearth” style nozzle, which admits intake air from the bottom. That is probably what I will try when I build my next gasifier.
Good luck with your project!
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Well long term is the end goal. Honestly since wood is “free” if i want it to be or VERY cheap (under a dollar a gallon equivalent) I’m not super concerned about the fuel efficiency. Was thinking of a ford 300 inline v6. 1200 rpm and lowered compression. I’m pretty sure when its all said and done it might be 25-30 hp. I would probably run a alternator/harbor freight engine combo to start though. I am pretty sure my family does not want me touching that generator. The engine might cost over 1000 on its own. If i hit my favorite junkyard supplier I could find a low mileage engine of a different model for as low as 200-300 bucks. I have a generator head but its 3600 rpm. Lowest i can find online is 1800. My grandpa is a pretty smart guy, he figured out how to build a regulator (which pretty much works on just about any shaft driven power source including hydro) so i think I can make it keep a decent 60 hz. The only thing I would be missing is AVR. Not sure if it would be possible to add my own. I could skip the whole generator and use a PMA with my charge controller and just use it to rapid charge my batteries.
So the nozzles are the weak point? 100 hours is…pretty low. I’d be putting 10-25 hours a week on it.
Would higher grade metal work? Like a high temp grade of stainless steel? I have a local metal supplier that can get just about anything.
Generally, with the simple fire, you build the nozzle port so that you can just screw it out and screw another one in. Also, I understated Dave’s results. I think he actually reports 150+ hours. So, you would just be changing nozzles every 2-4 months. No problem. Just treat it as a consumable. It is not an expensive part.
People have experimented with many different metals and many different nozzle designs. I don’t think stainless helps you much. I tried one, and it lasted about the same as the black pipe. But your mileage may vary. We are waiting to hear results on a titanium nozzle. I was tempted to have a tungsten nozzle milled, until I found out it would cost $800 (yikes).
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Here is the nozzle thread.
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I have a metal nozzle in my charcoal gasifier with about 6000 km on it so that is wery doable. I think Koen has some great resalts sllso.
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Welcome Josh, To get to all the tech stuff you really need to consider becoming a premium member, well worth it. I don’t know how much of the charcoal is on the premium side of the site. If your plans are to run auto type engines Wayne’s design is the way to go.
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Absolutely.
I was just talking about nozzles for the simple fire design.
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I plan on doing so later in the month. Money is tight right now.
Tantulum?
Sorry Kyle l just dont get it. Why make a simple fire and put something worth 800$ and titanium and tungsten etc that you dont eaven know will work? I think the whole simple fire concept is make an emergancy fuel sorce fast with minimum cost. If we talk about a gasifier that is ment to produce gas days upon days, that is a different story.
If l had that extra 800$ l wuld build a nuclerar reactor rather thain a simple fire 
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Thats whats getting me hung up on the imbert design. The nozzle and general wear and tear from the really high temperatures and the increased complexity and cost. A fema seems like it would last longer but the tar issue is the biggest problem. Charcoal will reduce that a whole lot. Is it possible to get tar free gas out of a fema with filtering and charcoal? would I filter it when hot or cold? I can think of several cheap materials and filter methods that could be done. A car air filter is a good final filter for dust atleast. Wood chips and sawdust are commonly used as a filter. Dust seems like it would be easy to get out. I mostly want the tar and water out and before it gets to any fine filter mediums.
l will say it again. If you have good quality charcoal, you can do anything int the whole wide world with it and it will NOT EVER produce tar. It is that simple. Not possible. Just ash and a bit of charcoal dust.
I guess you culd use a fema but there is no need. A charcoal gasifier is the simplest thing on earth. A conzainer filled with charcoal and a nozzle on the bottom. No nead for any fancy gasifier. That is it.
But as for the cost of material, you can make a simple fire for ~ 10$ if you have a bucket and a pipe. But runing a generator for hours upon hours, you will have to make a gasifier built for that. And perhaps the overall cost will come close to a Imbert. Make a good wood gasser and you dont have to get your hands dirlhy with charcoal makeing.
As for filtering and cooling chargas, there isnt anithing simpler. The gas comes relatively cool (i drive with gas temp 20°c higher thain ambient when all is warmed up, with no cooler) and dry. Like l sayd, an old sock can filter it.
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Keep in mind if you’re going to use a lot of fuel… charcoal making removes well over half the fuel value of the wood. You’ll handle a lot more raw material per KWH with the charcoal gasifiers than you will with wood gasifiers.
With a good gasifier design, tar isn’t an issue. Of the hundreds of wood powered trucks on this website, I don’t know of any that have made significant tar. Most of them are using Wayne Keith’s design.
A gasifier is like any other tool. Invest in a good one, and it will last for a very long time, and work very well. This saves you time and effort down the road. A cheap tool may do OK for awhile, but will need more frequent maintenance, be harder to work with, and its useful life will be over sooner.
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I’m going to be rather blunt. I really am trying to help you out, even if I do come across as harsh.
Stop what you’re doing and go back to spend time on learning/UNDERSTANDING the very, very basic concepts/mechanisms/theories behind gasification; the various types of gasifiers; and how various factors affect what happens in the engine and visa versa.
Once you’ve done that, THEN start working on what might be the best plan to accomplish your goals. Your only real options for succeeding in gasification are:
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Pay cash for someone else to know everything that needs to be done to design/build/run an appropriate gasifier. @Matt at Vulcan Gasifiers Vulcan Gasifier can happily sell you a “turn-key” (put wood in, turn a key, use the power generated) system, but I think that his cheapest turn-key models start at over 10,000$ USD. I don’t know if Arvid @tritowns and his International Supply company still sell complete systems (and lessons on how to run them); same for Stephen Abbadessa @sabbadess and his company NSR (Almost all money; very little knowledge needed; the “upfront” hard work is taken care of, but still needs a fair amount of ongoing work to keep things going)
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You can learn enough to be able to copy someone else’s proven system for an applicable engine and build it (one still needs to learn a lot, but very doable as shown by all the members here). Several offer plans for free/cheap (comparatively). The most obvious example being the @Wayne Keith system with proven applications/versions for a Dodge 8L V10 Ram, Dodge 5.2L (318CI) V8 Dakota, and a medium sized tractor, as well as “educated guesses” on how to change the design to fit many other applications. Other examples are @glgilmore and his “SimpleFire” and “Gilmore Gasifier” (both charcoal); @k_vanlooken has several proven charcoal systems. This is obviously the suggested option. (Moderate amounts of money needed to get tools, supplies, materials; moderate amounts of knowledge, which is slowly learned by lots of reading and discussing with others; moderate amounts of hard work)
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One can learn massive amounts of info/engineering/science, (either by having others teach you, or spending a LOT of time/energy/resources/sweat to learn yourself, such as @Wayne did over the period of at least a decade or two) to design a working system oneself. (Still have to have money to buy/have tools and materials; massive amounts of knowledge; and massive amounts of hard work.) I am incredibly grateful for the likes of @Wayne, Imbert, Gary Gilmore, and all the many other true pioneers that chose this option, and have put in that effort and allowed the rest of us to walk forward on their shoulders. My hat is off to them. Thank you, all. o7
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Yup, we still offer systems.
Shipping is stupid expensive from up here though.
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Ha.
Kristijan, I cannot disagree with you. If you will notice, I didn’t put an $800 nozzle in a simple fire. I priced one. When I learned what it cost, I ruled it out.
Someone else is trying the titanium nozzle (Bruce, I think). So, I am interested in how it works out for him. Scrap titanium is actually not all that expensive, if it holds up.
My point here is that the simple fire design is probably the cheapest and easiest way to get started in gasification. For those who like to learn by doing, or don’t have the patience or money or skills to construct a more sophisticated gasifier as their first project, I think it is a great option. And, it is entirely practical to run a generator from it, provide you come up with some reasonable solution to the “nozzle problem.” Based on what I have seen, Dave’s solution is reasonable and cost effective, and transforms the simple fire into a basic gasifier that is real world usable at low cost.
However, as a second or third project, I would heartily recommend and endorse some of the more sophisticated designs that can be seen on this website, including yours. And, for wood gasification, I would definitely recommend Mr. Wayne’s design (working on one of those, myself).
In fact, of the designs being discussed, the only one I would categorically rule out would be the FEMA design, due to the very high probability that it will make tar and gunk up your engine.
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Joshua - I am no expert. But from what I have picked up so far, it is virtually impossible to “filter out” tar. The whole trick is not sending any to the engine in the first place. There are two ways to do that. (1) Make a charcoal gasifier, since the tar is already removed or (2) go with a design that can “crack” the tar by suitably high temperatures, such as the WK design.
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I’m gonna probably go with kyle on this. I will continue my research. I have loads of free time and little money so: research research research until I find the most ideal cost effective solution.
Black iron pipe is fairly cheap. Out of 50 bucks worth (10 feet) and 6 inches of it at a time I should have more than 2000 hours worth of run time. That comes down to 2 cents an hour of run time.
A washable filter would reduce the run cost even further. I did look into the prices of tungsten and tantalum or even titanium. I don’t think the cost per pound is that high, its just its not a common material so the few that carry them online charge a ton to process it and make what you want. Some refractory brick could also extend it but i never had a lot of luck with stove brick. a year later it tends to break but it might just be what i get is low quality. I’ll give the simple fire a shot. Might buy a cheap harbor freight engine or the smallest champion generator i can find and just see how long it lasts.
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