New way - wood pellet and steam

E’ passato molto tempo da quando scrivevo su questo forum. Ho aperto questo thread con l’obiettivo di non dare disegni ma fornire informazioni affinchè uno stimolo mentale venga trovato e spero che i moderatori del forum condivideranno questo mio pensiero. Scriverò sia in italiano , la mia lingua madre, che in inglese affinchè tutti possano leggere e riflettere. In questo thread voglio proporre un nuovo concetto sia per produrre ed utilizzare la carbonella che per produrre energia elettrica senza creare gas combustibile. In tutti i design per i gassificatori a carbonella vedo che utilizzate la carbonella ma nessuno utilizza il legno… come tutti sapete per produrre la carbonella occorre pirolizzare il legno; in questa fase sono rilasciati char, co2 etc… Per quale motivo non si converte direttamente il legno in carbonella all’interno del reattore sfruttando cosi tutta l’energia termica che può rilasciare il legno? Inoltre… perchè continuare a creare gas combustibile a basso contenuto energetico per azionare un motore endotermico con scarso rendimento termico? A questo punto vi chiederete che non solo non ho scritto per molto tempo sul vostro forum ma che sono diventato anche matto :slight_smile:
Quello che voglio dire è che dobbiamo fare un passo indietro nel tempo. Prima della creazione del motore endotermico veniva utilizzato il vapore come forza motrice. Ovviamente il vapore ha un rendimento limitato dovuto al suo stato di gas che lo rende comprimibile e quindi con basso rendimento. Nell’anno 1852 un ingegnere francese chiamato Henri Giffard ha creato un particolare iniettore che utilizzava lo stesso vapore prodotto dalla caldaia per mettere sotto pressione l’acqua per rimettere acqua nella caldaia. Andando ad analizzare la costruzione dell’iniettore (senza pistoni) e che la pressione necessaria al’acqua per vincere la pressione del vapore della caldaia deve essere maggiore come può essere possibile che funzioni? Per la nostra fisica se ho una pressione di vapore di 6 bar non posso ottenere una pressione maggiore anche di diversi bar oltremodo effettuo una conversione da vapore a acqua. Quindi all’interno di questo magico iniettore deve accadere qualcosa. Ma valutiamo un altro fattore… se creo vapore e con lo stesso metto sotto pressione l’acqua incremento il mio rendimento energetico finale, passando da uno stato gassoso e quindi elastico del vapore ad uno stato liquido e quindi incomprimibile come è l’acqua. Tutto questo ragionamento porta alla considerazione che si possa creare un generatore idroelettrico artificiale con l’iniettore giffard utilizzando il vapore come vettore energetico partendo dal pellet di legno come energia iniziale. Tutte queste considerazioni dovrebbero fare pensare…

It’s been a long time since I was writing on this forum. I opened this thread with the goal of not giving drawings but providing information for a mental stimulus to be found and I hope that the moderators of the forum will share my thoughts . I will write both in Italian, my mother tongue, and in English so that everyone can read and reflect. In this thread I want to propose a new concept both to produce and use charcoal and to produce electricity without creating combustible gas. In all charcoal gasifier designs I see that you use charcoal but nobody uses wood … as you all know to make charcoal it is necessary to pyrolize the wood; in this phase, char, co2, etc. are released. Why is it not possible to convert carbonella wood directly into the reactor, thus exploiting all the thermal energy that can release the wood? Moreover … why continue to create low-energy fuel gas to drive an endothermic engine with poor thermal efficiency? At this point you will ask that not only did I not write for a long time on your forum but that I also became crazy :slight_smile:

What I want to say is that we have to take a step back in time. Before the creation of the endothermic engine, steam was used as a driving force. Obviously the steam has a limited efficiency due to its state of gas which makes it compressible and therefore with low efficiency. In the year 1852 a French engineer named Henri Giffard created a particular injector that used the same steam produced by the boiler to put the water under pressure to put water back into the boiler. Going to analyze the construction of the injector (without pistons) and that the pressure necessary to water to overcome the steam pressure of the boiler must be greater than it may be possible that it works? For our physics if I have a steam pressure of 6 bar I can not get a higher pressure even of different bars respect to input and I also make a conversion from steam to water. So something must happen inside this magic injector. But let’s evaluate another factor … if I create steam and put with the same the water under pressure I increases my final energy yield, passing from a gaseous and then elastic state of vapor to a liquid state and therefore incompressible as water. All this reasoning leads to the consideration that an artificial hydroelectric generator can be created with the giffard injector using steam as an energetic vector starting from the wood pellet as initial energy. All these considerations should make you think …

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Did you make the output for steam production with pellet, to drive a pelton turbine through the giffard injector to generate electricity with a pelton hydraulic wheel shaft mud alternator? …

In sum, how many kilograms of pellets per hour is needed to make an électric kw

knowing that pellet already requires a lot of energy to make it.


The giffard injector in fact is the medium between steam and water … and the pelton turbine is the simplest solution to generate electricity with a “solid flow” of water. What I can tell you is that if your steam source has a pressure of 6 bar the giffard injector allows you to get a pressure on the water of 18-20bar but it is necessary that all the steam is “condensed” in the water that is you have to have the time for condensation. As for the consumption of pellets you need to improve the current combustion technology as I did because with a standard combustion with 1 kg of pellets that could generate thermal 4.5Kwh to today you only get 2kwh. In any case, what you need to understand is that there is a 3X energy amplification factor between steam and water and therefore, pellet consumption is a non-influential factor at the end. To understand the phenomenon that occurs inside the giffard injector, it is necessary to study the hydrogen bond of water. A practical example to understand the reaction is the lord armstrong hydroelectric machine William George Armstrong | Northern Innovation | Newcastle University or PDX underwater jet engine Greetings

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here is a realization made by diogenes of the nave of the fools in Sisteron in France, with a pelton wheel, but it only worked a few minutes, the production of steam was under dimentionné.


This scenario can’t works!!

You don’t need steam injector inside the pelton tank. This method heat only water but can’t create the water on pressure. For put the water on pressure you need THAT SATURATED STEAM INTERACT WITH COLD WATER using the giffard injector design… the cycle in Loop is ok…

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Just an example…
with an steam generator of 200kg/h of thermal power of 140Kw/h you can obtain an electric power of 50Kw/h.

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So we get 35% efficiency with your process, the gasifier with wood and an engine is the same result, the engine for a limited time, your process and could be more robust, but it still remains energy spent to make the pellets, which I think does not give a favorable balance sheet, but I wish I was wrong, because it’s a great process.


Also for make diesel or charcoal you spent energy. The difference is great of simple design and the noise near to zero!! You can increase simply the efficiency with new combustion technology and because you cut gasification process. My examples are based on normal steam pellet generator that you can buy in china and they use normal and incomplete combustion. In all cases you change scenario … from endothermic engine to hydroelectric generator in loop mode.

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Hello Marco,

Now it only remains to build a semi industrial model to validate this concept, the experiment has often shown me that the calculations obtained was often difficult to achieve in practice, last night, I read articles on the injector giffard, and although it is indicated that its output is around 30%, its setting requires a lot of dexterity, so having a demonstrator is paramount, if not already many people would have made a fortune with this technology, but an innovation n ’ is not to be excluded to succeed. , only the KW / h obtained at the end of the chain with the consumption of fuel gives its feasibility.


A madman who gnaws his life to produce the innaccessible

Francois Pal


Giffard injector is just the medium for connect the steam with the water but the complete system is able to obtain water in pressure also when giffard injector don’t run. Is all builded!!

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There are far simpler ways to do this and without an injector or steam…

Wood fire heating steel pipe that contains low boiling point fluid (liquid propane) that will boil and build pressure at 80F or 26C, now take that pressure and go directly to a small direct driven turbine generator…End of story… Propane is recirculated back to a liquid to begin again…

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The main problem is security and cost of system… what is the cost of complete 50/70Kwe/h generator with propane liquid including the turbine?

Marco…I do not offer this equipment, I was saying that is what I would do… As it is a lot simpler solution…