Nozzles for Charcoal gasifiers, part 2

I had the same thought Cody. IV drips are simple and consistent.

I looked up the fluid flow rates for a medical drip IV. Typical long term rates are 100ml per hour on a human patient and that’s way too slow. But the drip can and is used up to 500ml per hour in the right situation.

That is still only about half the rate Matt is using but… you could use two drips or just adjust the setup to boost the rate even further. Drips are very consistent and controllable with “head” height.


Im going to order one of these today. Put this in an ammo box and seal the cord off and install a fitting to attach a hose on the ammo box and feed the hose into the nozzle.

Edit: I dont this is going to build any presure. So Im going to get the cam lock hose couplers in aluminum and make a hose that the intake will breath through and that will attach to the ammo box with an intake vent. Im also shopping for a oxygen concentrator becuase Ive been thinking about this for ever and I want to know if it will work.


There’s a limit to the flow you can measure with drops, but when you can’t count individual drops, you can still get a rough idea of the flow from the stream size. Requires calibration of the “fine eye-chrometer” as my brother used to say.

If you really want to know the flow, try one of these:


Hey, everything you are doing is obsoleting everything I’m trying before I even get it done. :angry: just kidding. I should have been faster. A guy I knew on a homesteading site just took a dirt nap and he used one of those carry around oxygen generators. I suppose it would be tacky to ask his wife if I could have it.


You get get the ultrasonic driver board and ‘speaker’ for like 5 bucks on aliexpress. These are the ones I got.

You may not want that one, it is only 108khz, there are a couple of different frequencies and one is like 1.1 mhz which will produce finer mist.

The issue I have with it is, it times out after 4 hours, and it doesn’t automatically turn on.

The last issue is if the top of the speakers get wet, they short out. And supposedly, they burn out if they collect too many minerals on them.


Not sure the technology of the one you are looking at but Im looking at the output. The mist dont really matter much as long as its atomized and you can use atmosphere to move it through a hose. The one Im looking at looks to me like you fully submerge it? Thats what the video shows.


It is the same technology. It basically an audio speaker that throws water into the air. What you picked out is nice. If you are only doing testing, you can probably find something cheaper. If you want a cool humidifier for other then the gasifier as well, what you picked out is probably a good choice. 1.7mhz throws a lot more water into the air the 108khz ones which do about 50ml/hr vs the ~440ml/hr the 1.7mhz are rated for.

One way it is done for hydroponics is they put the device in a plastic storage tote, then pipe the air into the hydroponic container. they use like a computer fan to push the air. Which is very similar to your ammo can. :slight_smile:


It needs to be able to atomize 1 1/2 liters per hour. That is the cheapest at least on Amazon. I dont buy stuff anywhere else as I have accounts set up with secific vendors.


Well now that Ive shifted to this other concept Im going to reserve my fuel for that testing instead of this boiler concept. Building this external atomizer is more desirable as it will work with all versions of our machines and yours too. Plus it will simplify the nozzle assembly. If it dont work then Ill just shift back to the boiler nozzle. Didnt I just say I was done with development? Yeah here we go!! lol


You are good. It will be an interesting test.

How good is your kiCad? :slight_smile:

I found this which is a dollar, but first look it appears it will work, and skip the whole tank circuit resonator circuit, and drive it with a pwm. It includes a boost converter. :slight_smile:

add a PCA9685 chip and you could put 16 of those on a board, and drive it with your choice of microcontroller or even Pi using a single i2c bus.


Thats way too complicated for me and way over my head. I dont want anything I have to build other than the ammo box. Just put it together if it works succes if it dont still a success because we learned something.


Oh I understand completely :slight_smile:

I was more then half just making a note to myself about the chip. I looked for one a while back and didn’t find one. I want to make an arduino/esp32 controlled hydroponic grow chamber. The last part is figuring out how to get the ultrasonic driver board to work. :slight_smile:


For your mad flowers huh? haha :slight_smile:

There are actually quite a bit of DIY videos on youtube for both the foggers and the oxygen concentrators.


Actually it is part of the reforesting project and probably the elderberry project cloning chamber. But it could be used for Mad Flowers.

I have seen some videos but the component costs are like 10-20 dollars and aren’t any much better then what I can get from china for 3 dollars. The timeout and turn on button are the issues for me.


Matt - I would meter liquid water onto a hot surface to vaporize into steam vs using a fogger.

A given amount of water dripped onto a hot surface is a certain amount of H2O for the reaction. A fogger run at a particular voltage doesn’t necessarily produce a specific amount of H20 for the intake and that production could vary with ambient humidity.

I think vaporizing a controlled amount of water is going to MUCH more consistent and controllable for you.


Thats what we were just doing with the boiler nozzle. Flow kept stalling out we cant get stable flow with the rate of a drip. Or is this just my set up and everyone else is able to get a stable flow? Water likes to create surface tension so cant imagine im the only one experiencing this issue.


Matt - I’d love to help.

You are going to have some back pressure issues using liquid water because the steam is expanding 1700x when it vaporizes and that will raise the local pressure. If the steam is created in a small/confined space like the hearth, that back pressure will overwhelm the vacuum that keeps the gasifier “breathing” properly.

I’m looking at engine displacement and RPM for a sense of charge volume per hour: I get something like 670cc’s times 2000 rpm times 60 mins per hour which is ~80k liters. Char gas would be half that 80k and intake air the other half or 40k liters.

Your set up may be bigger/smaller and RPM higher/lower but I wanted to check some round numbers. I’d compare that to 1L per hour liquid water and 1700 times expansion… gets you 1.7k liters steam volume per hour vs ~ 40k liters air intake or 4.25%. Gasifiers run on pretty low vacuum pressures… maybe that’s the issue right there.

I’d have the water vaporizing outside the gasifier, say on a hot muffler (keep exhaust gas separate tho!). Have the steamy air created in say a large intake manifold so that it is well ahead of any constrictions. The back pressure from the steam will equalize before it can mess up the gasifier dynamics? It’s a thought and easy enough to test. The steam will displace 4% of the air and that’s not going to mess anything up.


The issue isnt the back presure. This has been a problem from the very beginning just trying to get it to drip through the tube into the nozzle. Ive been talking about this problem for years now and all the changes Ive made to my nozzle arange has evolved around this problem trying to solve it. Its why I was trying this new boiler set up hoping that back presure would keep adjitating the water flow.

The first systems I tried using the crank case vent to pulse the water tank that sort of worked but then you have a hose from your engine to the water tank and its just too crude of a set up.

Then I moved the drip tube to the end of the nozzle to use intake air to flow over the tube that works until the unit starts producing gas and then the presure drops. Like you said there is very minimal vacuum once up and running.

So Cody posted on this concept and I too had this same thought. So I built it and yup same issue flow keeps stalling. This first attempt I think the steam vent holes are too big and not creating back presure. I want it to do this. I want the steam expantion to back feed the water line to agitate it.

But I also think the needle valve is getting some crud build up in it. One of my clients put the housing of an ink pen into the NPT side of the needle valve that threads into the water tank. So that crud that settles in the bottom of the tank cant flow into it. He said its been workiing. So that may be a simple solution.

This Atomizer and the Oxy Concentrator are just experiements. We will never know unless we try you cant predict the unknown and we dont know it all.

The boiler nozzle when its working is pretty impresive. The steam expansion is desirable this is what is cutting out the atmosphere we want this to happen the more the marrier. More displace = more cooling and higher gas energy density. But inconsistancies are killing it because as soon as there is a flood the reaction crashes. If we can sustain this with better presision I think we can get a ton more water in these systems. So far recent test are proving this.


How are we really going to know if these things will work unless we actually try? You can do all the number crunching and apply all the science and engineering theory you want. But unless I see it in an actual prototype its all sudo science to me. Theory is a theory and reality is reality.