An interesting article about oil companies backing out of tar sand oil over cost of production. This is interesting because some oil is becoming not worth pumping while at the same time alternative energy and battery storage are both becoming more cost effective.
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Great for now but when oil goes back up it all changes. They are still building the pipelines to bring it out. They would rather leave it in the ground for now and sell it later when they can make a profit. Plus cutting back on supply will push prices up. I hope other sources of energy keep that from happening though but its probably just a matter of time. Even fracking for oil seems less destructive than what I have read about tar sands and I live in an area that has been fracted for gas for years. Some of the less productive wells here are being shut down but they are still there and if prices go back up it wonāt take long to get them back online.
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Logging can be dangerous but thinning should be done with a skidstear with a shear (hydraulic side cutter) to cut and pile the trees and a grapple skidder to pull them out to a chipper. 3 men in cabs doing semi loads per day.
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My point Is that the alternative energy and electric cars are getting cheaper and already some of the FF are getting to expensive so if that trend continues the FF will just be out of the picture on price alone. It is trends in the right direction that is all.
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Would love to see that happen but some day the Arabs well will run dry and even if not for fuel oil will still be needed. Maybe not in our lifetimes but probably in my granddaughters. Have hope cleaner way are found to do things by then and they are used.
I think you meant to say fracking for natural gas . I am seeing more big rigs from fleets using natural gas cng . something T Boone Pickens was promoting . I donāt like fracking or disposing of chemical waste by pumping it under ground .
In tar sands and shale more natural gas is used to produce the oil then is the energy value of the oil . China has not run out of coal but they have run out of air .
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I donāt like fracking either and we have had a few small earthquakes that the state geologists say are caused by the deep injection wells but they are still pumping and the state is still taking there tax money. That said its still cleaner than tar sands oil, both to produce and to burn. My biggest concern has been what will happen to our ground water but with a few exceptions that hasnāt been a problem so far.
I would be atleast as worried about the earthquakes. I read recently that in Oklahoma they have had a decrease in the number of earthquakes but that the last two where category 5 point something. In the past the earthquakes where category 2 out there and all from the injection of waste water. If earthquakes keep growing it wonāt mater what the ground water is like because the ground will be so unstable no one can live there anyway.
I am trying to be as optimistic these days as I can.
But its not easy, seems like we are digging a hole and the only solution anyone can offer is to keep digging until we see daylight again.
There is some sources of hope for me.
I keep watching alternative greener energy is becoming more affordable all the time.
The Ontario Gov, the Feds here has taken notice of the anger of the people and started to make some small steps to change things while reducing the costs of living ( and trying to be green ).
Very small steps and far from enough to stem the damage accumulation every day.
Earth quakes, pollution, climate change over population and extinction of animals.
These are the real problems we face ( automation and unstable economy and society are also things to fear )
We can talk about it or try and do something.
I think we should all write a an email to our local politicians and explain we need real solutions and not just talk, band aids and smoke.
We all know in this forum we are in trouble.
We all see some solutions in what we came here to discuss ( biomass gasification )
We need to spearhead thought and discussion with our peers and not just among ourselves.
I could talk all day and drink beer with you guys, but it will not save the world unless we get more people involved.
That is our challenge.
I was never as afraid of what the future held at the height of the cold war in 83 when I thought WWIII was a real possibility.
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The devil is in the details. Industry standards to bring logs to a mill is about 1 to 2 liters of diesel per cubic meter, leaving entirely apart the hydraulic oil, iron smelting, etc. Leading one to question the sustainability of the whole system as predicated.
Iām afraid weāre beyond solutions, we are either engaging in elaborate denial, drag chute, soften the blow scenarios, or post fall survival prospects. True solutions would require that 2/3 of the worldās population disappear, or a WWII scale emergency mobilization.
I recall the one minute to midnight 80ās, amazing that we got through it.
Some of the logging areas you canāt do that. You are looking at 45+% grades or better up a mountainside. And for thinning, you have to have enough space to navigate, which makes it a bit trickier then clear cutting.
The oil market hasnāt faced as stiff of competition to price in 70+ years. EVs and other technologies are actually becoming more price competitive. If the price of oil goes up, there are some real alternatives that didnāt exist the last time prices went up.
EV sales in the US are up significantly through the first 2 months. year over year, sales were up like 70% for jan, and roughly 35-40% growth for Februrary. Start adding rising fuel prices, and sales will start to go up.
Strange but o so trueā¦ leading by example, by doing itā¦
I am building the first 50 Kwh set , to be used with bamboo charcoal, for the island Samui Thailand.
The first set of an initial 28
The government has chosen to decentralize the grid systemā¦
I have been advocating my ideaās and yes, some people are respondingā¦
Most people understand if you doā¦ but youāl have to be convincing and passionatedā¦
The charcoaling process involves that waste wood/biomass can be used also mixed with ādomestic wasteā
If youār able to do and to showā¦ youāl get followersā¦
If you only can talkā¦ theyāl follow you talking and more talk will come, but nothing will be doneā¦
I live here in a land where people have less knowledge and 90% can not read/understand englishā¦
But still they are able to adapt the governmental system to the need of the people, for the benefit of the peopleā¦
Where politics was dominated by red and yellow, the military tooked over with the approval of the late King and turned all into whiteā¦
For those who knew this King, he was all for his people and helped them to be modest/moderate and sustainableā¦
There are numerous projects started by Him, energy and sustainability, they all had his personal attention and support.
Actually, i dedicate my work to himā¦ and i hope to do so as long as i canā¦
so, 
, stop your wasting habbits and build some 
If you canāt avoid waste, then reuse,recycleā¦ but donāt put it to wasteā¦
Use natural sources where ever you canā¦ use your knowledge, be a sustainable Macgyverā¦
Be a Wayne Keith or a Gary Gilmoreā¦
Just do it ā¦
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Science & Environment
Paris climate deal could ādisplace millions of forest dwellersā
By Matt McGrath
Environment correspondent
The Paris climate agreement could make millions of forest dwellers homeless, according to a new analysis.
Many developing countries will try to curb carbon emissions by setting aside forested areas as reserves.
But experts are worried that creating national parks often involves removing the people who live in these areas.
The study indicated designating forest reserves in Liberia and the Democratic Republic of Congo could displace as many as 1.3 million people.
With funding from Norway, Liberia has proposed 30% of their forests become protected areas by 2020.
DR Congo, funded by Germany and the Global Environmental Facility, aims to set aside 12-15% of their forested lands.
It would be madness, we would waste billions, damage peopleās lives and you donāt get the climate impact you need
Andy White, Rights and Resources Initiative
Consultants TMP Systems concluded:
In Liberia, up to 335,000 forest dwellers could be affected
In DR Congo, it could be as many as one million
āGovernments have targets to expand their protected areas, and now with new climate funding being available the risk is they will use this to expand in a way that doesnāt respect local rights,ā said Andy White, from the Rights and Resources Initiative, the campaign group that sponsored the research.
āIt could result in the displacement of millions of people.ā
Making matters worse
Analysts say that this type of displacement has already happened in sub-Saharan Africa, South East Asia and Latin America, and sometimes caused violent conflict.
āI donāt think the international community wants to displace rural dwellers in Liberia - but I think if we go about it in the way we are talking about it right now, that is going to be the result,ā said Constance Teague, from Liberiaās Sustainable Development Institute.
"We need to recognise that indigenous communities respect the forest and they have worked on [it] for hundreds of years.
āIt may not look like what the international community may expect, but this effort to conserve the land does exist.ā
Liberia had the largest forest space left in West Africa, largely because of the indigenous communities, she added.
The report also looks into the costs of compensating people for the loss of their lands in both Liberia and DR Congo, which range from $200m (Ā£137m) to more than Ā£1bn.
The main argument for setting up reserves is to:
protect the lands from deforestation
limit emissions
preserve the carbon in the trees
And Mr White said: "We need to make evidence available that makes it clear that the woods are full of people, and it makes more sense to help them rather than kick them out.
"Where indigenous peoples rights are protected, and they are able to use their forests for their own livelihoods, they have more carbon per hectare than protected areas.
āThey are active protectors, you donāt have to pay a park guard, because they protect their forests, and that is what the world needs.ā
Some 1.5 billion indigenous people inhabit or claim most of the land in the world - but, according to a study released last year, they have legal rights to just 10%.
Follow Matt on Twitter @mattmcgrathbbc and on Facebook.
Well. Well.
Some of you fellows here on this topic, and others not understanding the push-back on this site by many of us here . . .
Here is Why: Drive On WOOD.
WOOD. WOOD. WOOD for power is why most who come here, stay here. Enjoy talking developing around wood-for-fuel here.
Those pixuilated with bio-mass as a do-for-all solution drift far from easy-see, easy-do wood-for-power solutions.
Biomass failures to launch anything sustainable energy making usable who have insisted corresponding with me to pick my brain: sugar cane bagasse, wheat/oat straw folks, ground up books, corn-stover, corn cobs, yadda, yadda, yadda.
They all then drift into municipal solid wastes, animal and human pooās, tires, plastics and such.
Always (almost) gravitate to big investor financed Top-Down solutions.
I WOOD because it is the personal power solution that those who Will, Can.
Only a very few biomass users like KoenV.L. and BruceS have any interest to the majority of us who Do It With WOOD.
Why?
They work on personal use level, and decentralized power solutions.
They picture/show much more than just talk/preach/bitch 'achanging needed.
J-I-C Steve Unruh
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Strikes me as funny that multi gazzillion dollar logging operations were halted because a little spotted owl had a home there, but they donāt mind displacing thousands of humans dwellers in the forests.
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You would have to live in the third world to understand the reality of the pressures the poor will exert on the natural world. The poor people conserving forest proposition seems rather contrived. Unless they mean opposing corporate logging and subsequent large scale cattle ranching on the resulting laterite wasteland. In fact, often the desperate poor are exploited to deforest otherwise technically protected land, under a wink and nod veil of necessity. After the degradation, āproperā title is established in favour of the wealthy, the poor are sent deeper into the bush. A beautiful game for palm oil farmers, sugar cane growers, and cattle ranchers. True indigenous people are a different matter, but so few as to not be significant in this business.
Then thereās the issue of ābushmeatā. Poor people eat, and sell whatever is valuable. In Africa gorillas and chimpanzees figure highly in the equation. You donāt see wildlife much in the third world, people eat it, and compete for food with it. The kind of poor Iām talking about is when people canāt afford to buy lined paper for their kids to write on, or pencils. Growing coffee to the ridgetops until the first hurricane. Cutting down the last native stands for fuel wood. Thatās the reality for a third or half of humans on the planet.
The reality in the face of such poverty and overpopulation is to prohibit development in some areas, or it will all be gone.
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Steve is right. The talk talk talk is getting oldā¦ I think we should move on now.
Each of you make your final statements, this topic closes in 48 hours.
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Chris, You are a great moderator for us. Thanks for letting this Off Topic go on a while then shutting down so we can get back on topic.
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