Oxy / Atomizer Mixer Experiment

Ok putting together a parts list for this project, decided to break this off the Charcoal Nozzle topic as this is a bit of a different direction.

Concept:

This is doing two things actually. The core concept was to use an Ultrisonic mist maker to atomomize water externally to inject into the nozzle. Simple as that.

However Im not going to stop there, while Im experimenting with this I want to test with an oxygen concentrator. The idea here is not to add anymore oxygen but to reduce the amount of nitrogen. The nitrogen will be replaced with the atomized water mist. This is going to do a number of things, first is the primary outcome we are after and that is boost the gas energy density. But also we want to try and convert more water to H2. So my thinking is normal atmosphere is only going to allow so much oxidation to convert the water and like wise to much water will over cool. So there are some limits. By adding the oxygen concentrator even it some atmosphere is mixed in we can boost the oxygen to oxidize more fuel to create more heat to allow more water mist without crashing the process.

The Build:

So Im going to use a simple ammo box but want to get at least 4 gallons of water in it plus the level that is needed to submerge the atomizer plus head room for the mist, oxygen and what ever atmosphere is needed to mix over the water level. So Ill probably need the taller ammo box and I have one.

The lid of the box will have two 3/4 inch pipe flanges bolted and sealed to it for the in / out ports. An input barb fitting will be placed into the side of the ammo box up at top for the oxygen concentrator line to input to. Im going to use the cam lock hose coupler to make a hose that will connect the ammo box Oxy/Atomizer to the gasifier intake nozzle.

So Im waiting on some funding to purchase the oxygen concentrator and then after I order it it will take a week or so for delivery. So hopefully Ill be able to start testing this in a few weeks from now.

This is going to be very interesting!!

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Hi Matt,

Thanks for keeping things interesting. The ratings on ultrasonic mist modules looks like turning 1-1/2 liters/hour into mist will require 400 watts of electricity? I assume the power needed for an oxygen concentrator that produces your required O2 volume is a lot more? It makes me think about nuclear fusion. The early experiments may require a lot more power than they produce, but once everything is tuned in–?

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Yeah I dont know if it will be worth it, but the atomizer run on DC and use an AC to DC converter. I never looked at the watts it requires. For now Im just exploring the possibilities. The concentrator maybe needed to get the gas energy density up and it maybe worth the input energy. I dont know we have to try and see what happens.

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This is the oxygen concentrator Im looking at. It runs on DC and cant pull more than 10 amps DC as that is typical for automotive 12 volt sockets. So It shouldnt pull more than 120 watts. I just ordered the mister Ill look at the AC adapter and see what its wattage is when I get it. But looking at the ac adapter for my PC it only pulls 180 watts. This atomizer I cant see pulling that much power. Its powering tiny little speakers. I cant see it pulling very much power.

We dont need to replace all the nitrogen just a 5 to 10% drop will yeild massive results in a gasifier

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Yeah this isnt fusion or perpetual motion. We are just optimizing the water shift process with energy that is already there being wasted in the gasifiers reaction.

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To vaporize 1-1/2 liters per hour, you will need a whole bunch of those “tiny little speakers.” Mist units that convert 9000 ml/hour cost about $100 and use 400watts. The drip system with fiber mat in the tuyere makes sense to me. I’ll add that trick to my flute nozzle on my Baron tractor build. Perhaps you or someone else can enlighten me about the electrical load needed to produce enough O2 to run your gasifier with appreciably less air (nitrogen).

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Im going by its spec and judging by the videos I can certainly see it reducing the water that much easily.

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The idea of reducing the nitrogen comes in two parts. First is just the reduction alone say 10% percent. That is 10% less in gas compostion and the other gasses produced take up that void.

The second part is filling the nitrogen void pre oxidation, that must be filled with something otherwise you have a loss in penitration. That can be replaced with steam more steam > more H2 and CO production. So this is boosting the gas composition farther than just that 10% reduction in nitrogen. We are not creating energy, we are replacing nitrogen and replacing it with an energy carrier in its place

But dont forget Oxygen is also replacing some of the nitrogen with the concentrator to allow the for the increase in steam for the water shift. There is already an abundance of heat we can scavage but we dont have a good means to optimize that process. Boiling the water is about it but thats realy hard to control.

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Not sure where you are getting your numbers for the fogger. Here is another example this converts 8.5 ltrs per hour with just 292 watts. So I think the little three head is going to pull less than a 100 watts.

https://www.amazon.com/Dyna-Living-Ultrasonic-Humidifier-Atomizing-Waterproof/dp/B09PMZP2P7?crid=T2PEIHOLNRES&keywords=dyna+living+mist&qid=1657156608&sprefix=dyna+living+mi,aps,229&sr=8-1&linkCode=sl1&tag=beatthebush-20&linkId=a68640255c509ab2286be2b296259820&language=en_US&ref_=as_li_ss_tl

I mean check this video out, that is nuts!!

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Now check this out, 1 litter of water if the gasifier is breaking it down to H2 will produce over 14000 BTU.

14000 BTU is equal to 1400 watts. So we have plenty of watts there we can sacrifice for both the atomizer and the oxygen concentrator. However this is the gross and not factoring engine losses before electrical output. But even so there should still be a signifact net gain.

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It is submersible, but it is supposed to float on the water. Like the sealed it to make it waterproof, but if you read their tips, like don’t tip it over, or use a floatation device for it. It means, it needs to float on the water.

I am just saying that to be clear. It is in the “tips” image in the product info. :slight_smile:

you could also add a temperature and humidity sensor, to keep track of the humidity in the chamber or maybe in the resulting airstream. Those are like 2 dollars from aliexpress. but something to think about adding after the proof of concept. :slight_smile:

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I’ll move some of the clutter over here from the “Nozzles” thread. If flow is the problem, how about a pressurized water feed? The flow depends on the pressure drop across the needle valve. If it’s gravity fed, changes in nozzle pressure and surface tension effects change the pressure significantly. With something like an insect sprayer, you could put 5 psi or so in the tank, and pressure changes at the valve would be much smaller, percentage-wise.

This suggestion doesn’t mean I’m not eager to see how the misters work.

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Had me thinking… what if one was to atomize alcohol… I would imagine that would be one dangerous situation with a flame.

I had one of these but could not get it to stay at the right level it needs to be above the water… Thus you need the flotation device…

This might be ideal for starting plant cuttings.

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I think you are spot on dont forget temp changes as the water tank is bolted to the gasifier. Yeah there are a bunch things causing all this.

Yeah Ive thought about a pump. But how to do you apply it? Where can I put it? I was thinking maybe getting a fuel injector and possibly building it into the end of the nozzle too.

But this atomizer is really doing the same thing. Its not a pump but energy consumption is about the same and I think its going to be more effective.

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The one I have you fully submerge it and I just got it today; its incredible too!!

Yeah I said the same thing over the other and that got shot down imediatly. But Ethanol mixes well with water and its a great solution for freezing temps. And yes it works Ive done it.

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They can and are used for controlling the humidity in plant chambers especially cloning, where you want to keep the humidity high for the leaves to absorb the water since they don’t have a root systems at that point. One Cavaet, that I read was because it is actually water droplets thrown into the air, it displaces the gases like oxygen/co2.

They are also used for hydroponics for the root systems themselves, but usually short on/off cycles.

for consumer devices they are used as humidifiers and essential oil diffusers, and lots and lots of buzzers or haptic feedback devices.

mine came with a long spike and a wick that has a spring to maintain contact with the buzzer. a piece of pool noodle keeps it floating. However, I burned one out by submerging it testing it out. And I think that might have to do with the lack of waterproof coating. between the two conductive sides.

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You are right!! It does work submerged but only to an extent. If its to deep then it dont produce hardly anything. So no biggy I just cut the float device to fit the ammo box and its working fine.

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Ok I just got to go and process some charcoal and will be ready for the first test. The oxygen concentrator I wont be able to order until next week. So going to test with just this atomizer for now. So far based on its output its looking pretty promising.

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Excellent! (20 characters)

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I just read the ‘tips’ in the description. :slight_smile:

It works similar to putting styrofoam beads on top of a speaker and they get flung up. , I’m actually surprised it produces anything submerged.

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