ReInventing the VersiFire!

[Matt (Matt Ryder)]

Happy Spring everyone!!

Ok so yeah its that time of year again and Ill be picking back up on gasser I was working on last year. However that design will be completely re worked into a new design that I am working on now. The original VersiFire concept with the gas storage is getting scrapped Ill explain more.

So the idea of the versifire was to build a system that could make charcoal, while storing the pyrolysis home apliance usage. The gas produced was moved to storage gasometer to settle and scrubb out tar and debris while making engine grade charcoal. This then evolved to just a gas storage system that ended up with a very complex automation system. The idea was to have versital gas producer that not only supplied engine fuel gas but gas for hot water heaters, gas stoves, gas refridgeration etc and do so with out any tar making its way to the end appliications. However after a lot of consideration Ive decided this machine concept and development has not met design critirias to make the cut to productoin level. So this concept is getting complete scrapped. There are liability issues with home gas distribution as this gas is loaded with carbonmonoxide. There are dangers with storing gas in a tank and the automtion on this machine became extremely complex and finicky as it used its own gas for auto re ignition systems for autonomouse opperation. So this is beyond the end user picking up a wrench and fixing it when things go south. So this development is now discontinued.

Inflation cost plus adopting some stainless steel components have driven up cost to produce the CFX RTR. I have not raised our pricing since Covid. However this year I have had no choice but to re evaluate and adjust the cost but unfortunatly this is now premium level pricing. Although the CFX is now at a premium level of build quality with the new stainless steel parts and also its water cracking performance.

So now to combat this, we simply need a lower cost system to get on the market. (Believe me Ive been trying to do this for a decade; this isnt easy to do at comercial level. These machines have to work)

Last fall I started development work on a brand new charcoal gasifier concept. It has a centralized air feed with direct water boiler. This design worked quite well but unfortunatly the fuel must be highly processed for it to work. So it failed design critieria. So I am going to rework this design and ultimatly it will be run on both wood fuel or charcoal fuel or any combination of the two. Thus allowing it to be Versitile hence re inventing the VersiFire!

2025 VersiFire Design Criteria:

• Must be DIY friendly

*Welders Builder Kit - No Support Systems

*Pre Welded / Un Assembled Base kit - No Support Systems

*Pre Welded / Un Assembled Base kit - With Support Systems

*Fully Assembled Base Gasifier - No Support systems

*Fully Assmbled VersiFire RTR - Ready to Run

• Simple Construction Using Off the Shelf Components*Main Shell will use 12 inch diameter Propain and Air Tanks (widely available)*Use minimal manufactured components. Although the majority of the components will be vendor supplied we will need to produce some components that you simply cant buy. But we will keep this to a minimum. Specifically with grate sill and reduction tube we will need to manufacture those items or the user will need to create these parts from scratch. We have CNC machine so its easier for us to make those parts.

• Make it Versitile!!!

*Ideally the new VersiFire concept will have the ability to run on either wood fuel or charcoal and of coarse any mixture. If your wood fuel is not making clean gas you can alway mix in some charcoal to give it a boost in temp and also aid with the water shift. Or you may just not have one or the other fuel ready to run but have the alternate available. Good to produce both fuels and use what you have when its ready.

Machine stacking can scale a system easily with a single build platform. You can team multiple VersiFires and feed them into a shared filtration system to a single output.

Based on simalar design work we have done recently I am confident we can build this new system to meet this cryteria 100%. Ill will be working on updating the CAD work on this machine in the next few days and parts are already on order and on the way. So new engine run videos will be coming soon!!

[Bronlin (Bronlin Klassen)]

That is great to hear. I was very untriaged when you came out with the last model of the VersiFire. It seems viable to use the woodgas in place of propane or natural gas. Especially if there is a way to store the gas so it does not need the to run 24/7.

I will be looking forward to updates.

[Matt (Matt Ryder)]

Yeah it was a cool concept but its simply not a viable product. If the automation goes down it wont work and its so complex there is no fixing it over the phone. Beside that using a simple wood stove is easier and way more efficient. Gasification is not efficeint at all plus all the complexity. Wood boilers that use all the heat are ok but they lose in the heat to water exchange. There are better solutions for hot water like simply wraping a coil around a stove or retort. Everything else can just run on electric produced form the engine gasifeir system.

I am winding my life down so I can retire. Although Ill never fully retire I need to get this where my old worn out body can do this without employees and also downsize prioduction. I am working on an engineering services and prototypiing company speciallizing in 3D printing, lost investement casting technologies, Carbon Fiber Technologies and 3D Scanning / CAD services. I have been investing into this the last 6 years.

[SteveUnruh]

Hi MattR.
Great truths you wrote in that first paragraph.
I will fix that writing in my mind and in the future refer others back to it.

Yeah. Wind-spitting hopes and dreams can be forced only with much constant personal energy expenditures, costs and and chained single failures points layers built up complexities.
A fellow get tired pushing Others hopes/dreams/beliefs roll-back crushing rocks up hills for them.
They-Them need to up-off-keyboard get out and do real things for themselves.
Get the wood splinters and work made blisters; themselves.
Get the wood chars and soots blackened hands; themselves.
Smell the smells; themselves.
Learn the realities of using woods for power; themselves.

Whole different culture we live versus even as recent as back in the 1950’s with all of the DIY woodworking; radio-making; car maintaining; cooking and baking popular magazines.
Now most all addicted to shop-buy instant-gratification’s. In all things.
Best Regards
Steve unruh

[tcholton717 (Tom Holton)]

My belief is that if you could fuel a gasifier with smart phones then a real use could be found for the billions of them and all of a sudden people may look up and notice that there is a whole real world surrounding them waiting to be explored and learned from. Old geezer babbling, grumble, grumble.

[madflower69 (Sean Omalley)]

Non-input activities like TV watching are far worse. Phones can be interactive to some extent to get synapses firing. I agree with the sentiment, you have to set it down and walk away from it. I don’t usually take mine outside with me.

[Woodrunner (Göran kindervall)]

I must say i like smartphones, well, no, i like MY smartphone, because it keeps me in contact with you guy’s, at DOW.

[hydecreekbuzz (Darrell Cochrane)]

Looking forward to the evolution of the VersiFire Matt. What are the capabilities of the base unit? Is the picture above a prototype? I bit the bullet and ordered a cheapie stick welder and will start practicing. I have access to better welders with my brother but need to develop those skills myself. Buzz

[Matt (Matt Ryder)]

It should run 500cc and bellow on either wood or charcoal or mix. I just got done re working the shells today Ill have up later this week. Yes that is the first version of this proto but its totally different now.

[Matt (Matt Ryder)]

Here is a little teaser for now. So I have the tanks reworked and set up on wheels this time. Now I need to punch the holes to install the jet couplings, build the manifold to distribute primary air to them via SS flex hose, build the boiler nozzle and finally build the reduction bell/skirt and grate system. Then it will be ready for its first fire up.

[Matt (Matt Ryder)]

Finally got around to work on this thing again. Today I built a short version of the reformer nozzle, installed the wood fuel jets and built the intake manifold. Then installed the flex hoses. Going to be pretty cool to be able service the jets from the outside!!

Now I need to design the grate support and figure out what Im going to do for hopper lid and hang the water tank. Then I should be able start testing once that is all done.

[r_wesseling (Rindert Wesseling (Louisville,CO))]

Hi Matt,
Just curious. What is the ball valve with the blue handle for?
Rindert

[Matt (Matt Ryder)]

Air intake control for the wood fuel jets. You dont run these jets when in chacoal mode.

[Matt (Matt Ryder)]

All right it has a functional grate and reduction stage.

[Matt (Matt Ryder)]

Well it works! So far it seems to be making pretty clean gas. I see lots of blue in the flare now that it warmed up. It is running on wood chips that were kiln dried in the top stage of the retort. I used that little blue drum chipper to make these chips as well. So the user can run air dried fuel (risk of tar), kiln dried fuel ( less risk of tar) a mixe of both (same batch together retort / kiln ( lesser risk of tar)) or charcoal ( least likely plus water injection advantage)

So far its flowing and keeping up with the Amtek running on 12 volts DC. Im surprised it has this much output on just 12 volts!

[Matt (Matt Ryder)]

Ok ran it for exactly 1 hour under that pace. I never touched the unit for the entire run other than the last pictures are after a grate shake. That was the only time. It sustained the flare like this the entire hour and it is gusty here at the moment. Windy enough to blow out a weak fare for sure. It never fluctuated and retained a constant flare clore that looked clean to me

After 30 min.

1 Hour after grate shake

[Matt (Matt Ryder)]

Ok I ran two engine run test over the weekend. Yesturday I ran two hoppers of the wood fuel and today I set up the water drip and ran in charcoal mode. I ran to two hopper fills per engine test.

The aplication is the Predator 4375 power generator with 212cc engine.

Both wood fuel test I ended before 30 minutes of run time. First test it ran fairly stable for the first 20 minutes and then at the end I had to keep interviening like a spent hopper. So stopped the run let cool and swtiched to gasoline. No filter media just the drum gas cooler and I had some residual thin layer of tar on the intake coupling at the engine. Second was the same but maybe a little less stable and this time there was valve noise that I shut down and imediatly got it running on gasoline.

Hopper inspection it was about half consume with a cone in the center. Some biasing to the front jet this was expected. I will extend this on future builds but will need to cut back the wood fuel jets to better match this one on the proto.

Ok now charcoal with water drip. First run was about 40 minutes and was not very stable due to no vent in the water tank. Valve noise came back on this run but cleared out as the residual tar worked its way out of the system from the last wood fuel run. So water flow was not stable because the tank couldnt breath. So this run was a wash and same thing I ran until it became too unstable to keep it going. Inspected the hopper level and it was also only about half way down but this time biased to front as I expected it would be.

Ok now the second run was better and much longer. It ran for 1 hour 10 min and the same fuel consumption and also at a higher load. Water flow was more stable but not 100% and is why it was able to drink nearly 4 liters of water. I think one issue is the head presure on the water tank. more water more presure less the valve needs to be open But then diminishes as the water wieght drops.

Ok so some solutions. Id rather not introduce an automated hopper shaker on this. But it needs something to combat flow issues. The hopper lid I am going to re work into a monorator concept just like I did the very early days. I will add a drain hole that can double and poker port. Simple! But will require intervention but shouldnt be too often.

For the water drip Im just going to eliminate the tank all together and install a small RV pump. I had one you can lower the presure and put a valve on it to control a constant flow. Ill just mount it on the machine and then rather than a water tank you just use what ever you have. A two litre bottle, 5 gallon bucket with lid what ever. Then you just set the flow and turn on the pump. Again Simple and I dont have to make it. lol

I should still have that pump somewhere but I dont recall seeing it around for some time. So I may have order one.

[Matt (Matt Ryder)]

Somethng I want ot quick note. At one point I really had that water boiler nozzle dialed in and you could easily see a good amount of steam with out any water really coming out at a good clip. I think there is back presure issues as well as the water wieght issue. I think we are going to learn something here. Because its hard to maintain steam production if the water flow is all over the place. I bet this is really gong to make some big improvements if I can stablize the water flow and get that dialed in perfect.

[abreaks (Anthony Breaks)]

The gasifier needs to be under partial vacuum for safety and to pull in fresh intake air. Liquid water dripped into the hot zone will flash to steam and that expansion will reduce the partial vacuum of the gasifier and decrease the pull on the air nozzles or cause pulsing. If the drip water flashes in the delivery tube it will also push back against the gravity feed rather than maintain a steady drip, so two problems… maybe one fix?

You could use “waste” heat from a gas cooler or the engine muffler to flash the drip water into the air stream ahead of the gasifier nozzle(s) in a hot “manifold” at ambient pressures. Above 212F/100C you can have any mix of steam and air you want. The nozzles will pull in whatever gas mix you create in this hot manifold. The partial vacuum inside the gasifier stays stable and so the nozzle speeds remain consistent.

Muffler or gas cooler heat doesn’t rob any energy from the gasifier reactions, it’s hot enough to flash steam but also much cooler than a hot zone. It will be much easier to keep the drip water liquid in the delivery tube when it is injected into a 400F-500F environment vs a 1200F hot zone. You might even get away with silicone which has low thermal conductivity to prevent premature flashing.

[SteveUnruh]

I think it is very telling that both of you are now thinking and expressing in terms of interactive, dynamic operating factors.
Only Life experiences can teach this.

Takes time for a bullet to reach it’s intended target. In that time positive things happen like flight pitch and yaw stabilization. Negative things happen too like gravity pull; variable side winds; even up and down drafts. Precession spin twisting.
And in real life the target moves and jumps around.
Best Regards
Steve Unruh