Tom Collins' Gasifier

[trigaux]

You do not use a paper safety filter (before using gas in the engine)?
Thierry

[TomC]

Trigaux; I believe the recommendation is----- the gas goes from the cooling rails into a warm-up box ( usually a container around the cyclone) where it is warmed up to well above the dew point temperature and as it comes out of the warm-up box, it goes through a paper filter before heading up to the engine. TomC

[gasman]

Hi, Trigaux!
1.2.2017

If you are talking about Fredrik's trailer system:

The paper filter is directly after reheating on the outletgas from the gasifier.
The paperfilter has to be applied where the gas has been dried by reheating.

Then Tom's "conclusions" corrections:

The vertical cooler and the open-cell chest have a common condense tank.
The gas goes from the cooler via this tank up to the chest, and from there
to the nearby reheating mantel on the gasifier outlet tube.

From this coaxial reheating mantel to the paperfilter sitting nearby.
From this paperfilter via a diameter 90 mm hose in under the Jeep's undercarridge.

[kmrland]

Does the gas go through the cooling rack first then the warm up exchanger and then filter., my truck is set up with standard wk flow path, so ware would i add the sock or paper filter just before gas goes too cooling rack or after cooling rack and then back through a heat up ally.?Thanks Max and Tom.

[gasman]

Fredrik's Jeep-trailer system once again:

Flow: Gasifier -- horizontal settlement cylinders

-- vertical cooler on trailer front -- via condens

barrel up to open-cell mattress wet filter --

reheating in a coaxial tube around the gasifier

outlet -- paper filter -- jeep.
.......................................................

In a WK the temperature-vise obvious place
would be after the heatexchanger.
Preferably the heatexchanger should be
in the form of a cyclone, to get rid of
the most coarse "crap" first...

There is always a risk to get flying sparks
or small glowing char bits if no cyclone is used!
Thy can easily destroy the fabrik...

[kmrland]

Thanks MAX for the intelligent responce, i thought it might be too hot at that point, thanks for clearing that up. What about a double wall heat exchanger preaheating before insulating outside of any heat exchanger.and running the hay filter fuel though the double wall ally then the paper filter, would that be hot enough for drying gas.

[gasman]

Hi, Kevin!
1.2.2017

Have I understood it right, like this?

A cyclon with two coaxial cylinders around it,
where:
1. The cyclone delivers "gasifier gas" to the fabric filter,
2. The first outer layer delivers heated primary air to the gasifier, and
3. The cool wet "return gas" (after the cooler)
would be reheated for passing a paper filter?

If I understood it right, the point
3. would not get enough heat from the "aircooled" second mantel.

The wet, cool return gas needs a really hot surface to draw heat from;
it is a fast passage and the short contact time needs
a big temperature difference to be able to pick up significant heating energy...

[kmrland]

Ok max hotter is only way, what temp leaving or entering the paper filter would be the least temperture you think would be dry enough and the max temp before paper filter burns up in the low oxegen invirement.Thanks.

[gasman]

Hi, Kevin!
2.2.2017

1. The max. tolerable temperature for paper filters (long term) is around 120 deg. Celcius.

2. The gas leaving the cooler (and through an open-cell wet matress filter) remains 100% wet

AS LONG AS the temperature does not rize!

When the temperature starts to rize abowe the cooler (condensing) output temperature, the relative humidity starts to decline below 100%.

As long as the temperature of the gas is kept ABOVE the cooler output temperature it will behave as "relative dry".

This holds, if the relative pressure of the gas stays the same.

[kmrland]

OK Max 120 c. For paper filter and what may i ask is used for the wet filter at the outlet of the cooling rails, or is there a picture here on dow of your open cell wet matress unit.Thanks for the help i have poor reading skills and my cell phone is my computor these days.

[kmrland]

Hi Tom C i hope i am not useing too much time yacking about filters on your thread, if there is a filter designs thread that would be nice though i dont know if there is, have you used paper filters on any woodgas motors.

[gasman]

Hi, Kevin!
3. of February 2017

Moving to: "Posible near smoke free refill" ?

[TomC]

I am happy to have "soot filtering" on my thread. I started it and was asking for information. I have never set a gasifier up to use a paper filter. My main concern was improving the performance of my truck, but some one mentioned cyclones and I jumped on the subject. I have always run a cyclone. I am in the process of building a new one and Max's suggestion or reheating the gas after cooling to prevent condensate on the way to the engine, makes such good since, that the subject of "soot filtering" has taken over the conversation. I will get back to "improved performance". It is such a large subject I don't know where we start. TomC

[kmrland]

Ok Thanks tom, I see you useing the open cell foam on tom of your hay filter so i gess thats what Max was talking about. Now Max says 120 c or just under that temp is best for a paper filter, i just wounder. How many miles before those paper filter plug up. Though i would be interested in trying one on my next wood fuel truck. Whare do we get 120 c ally or compartment temp that dont rise higher than that and still hot enough too stay dry enough for these paper filters, as are crossover heat exchanger are much hotter than 120 c with the bigger motors we are pulling with.?? Any ideas Max or Tom on a seperate mantel, ally , colloum.

[gasman]

Hi, Kevin!
3. of February 2017

So we are continuing as "subtenants" here?

My personal idea of collecting building ideas for my projects is to collect it on my own site and not have it spread out all around the place... one here, another there, and how to keep any count of them what is on who's site, when needed?
Who remembers where items are berried at last???

Concider!

Of course you can "double-work" by copying and pasting...

Until knowing better, a small comment:
The heatflow from the gasifier can feed two cyclones, or other heatexchangers; one for "own" preheting primary air, and the other for re-heating wet cool gas.

Paperfilters need not to be new; Fredik has used discarded truck filters for more than 6000 km... they are easy to blow clean with pressured air...

Discarded open-cell matresses can be found on dumps... but don't sqeese the flow through area! A real chest is needed.

[kmrland]

Max i consider the help value with your time. Yes were are ok here, i was thinking maybe a 2 or 3" pipe inside along side the cyclone / or heatexchanger just out of interferience of the cyclone too make the heat, then after the cyclone run the gas or most of the gas through the tube too control the heat. The only problem i see with strait out the cylone intoo the filter is the wide heat operating range, probley need some sort of heat reroute damper control mech too keep paper filter in one peice.? PS are you useing the paper filter in the air cleaner housing or seperate houseing closer too the heat exchangers. I hope i am not asking too many dumb questains.

[TomC]

Here is a drawing I did some time back. I think I found a mistake at the time but don't have time to study it --- company is waiting to go to supper. Will try to incorporate this into a WK type later.

[kmrland]

Ok Tom C i can copy and pase that one too study, Thanks Tom And Max you are both free too stay,no deport .Jokeing aside i could make a paper filter work with probley some sort of temp overheat control.Thanks for sorting this out for me.

[gasman]

Hi, Kevin!
4. of February 2017

My imagination does not translate your story into a debatable picture.

I am of no help in that.

[TomC]

I had time to look at my drawing and found the mistake in it. The pipe from the cooling rack should have gone directly to the inlet to the "REHEAT BOX". Not to the SILO and out to the REHEAT BOX. The AIR CHAMBER on the outside of the silo is for the gas to go up from the ash pit and add heat to the wood in the SILO and then out to the cyclone ( This does not have to feed a CHEVROLET. It can be one of many types of engines ) TomC