The site I referred to is based on, I think an American design. It goes everywhere Peter Berg detailed it and made is his life work. Very precise person and very helpfull and I think a very nice design. The back site is, you don’t have a nice view at the flames.
Don’t know about these, so no idea if and why they are dangerous.
And that is ok too.
And I should have started with this one. Our woodstove is less airtight every year. Nothing to burn around it but the smoke is killing sometimes. Very carefull pushing the chief into a mass woodstove. Light it once and it stays warm for a day or more (no freezing here).
Yes that American man who originated this in the 1970’s/early 1980’s (can not remember his name) insisted on an in chimney pipe draft inducer blower. I did viewed his original works. Read his thinking. And once-apon-a-time followed his developments. He lived in Illinois. Chicago?
One DOW member did say he tracked that man down and visited with him much later.
Not a longhaired dreamer. A real Practicalist.
I’ve had to add these electric motor driven exhaust draft inducers onto shop and industrial hot water washer systems that would seasonally downdraft through their 20 foot ceilings, up and out chimneys. Natural gas heated. Only a problem on Monday mornings after two day all cooling down.
Ran into this down drafting when cold sometimes, twice in two different old houses systems with cold outside unlined brick chimneys. Neither would allow me to insulated stainless steel line, retrofit their chimneys. OK for the last 100 years. OK now they said. OK says I. Goodbye. Enjoy your lives. Preheat, forcing reversing the draft flow with lots and lots of crumpled news print. Never let it go cold to allow this to happen.
Most respect for you JoepK. A real Practicalist knows when to stop pushing a not going to work out in widespread deployed concept.
"Very carefull pushing the chief into a mass . . . " is this a poor translation?
Or, a joke referring to the Gingerbread House witch? We have a 5 and a 7 year old girls living with us now. I read them to sleep every night. Witches OK. Wolves, not.
S.U.
Lived in a cottage once with a barrel stove. Had a chimney fire. Total panic. Glowing red like Dave said and sounded like it was heavy breathing as it kept trying to suck in more air. Went outside and flames were shooting out of the stack like a rocket engine. Luckily it ran out of creosote before the flue pipe melted away. Probably not a minute too soon. All volunteer fire departments around here. They have some kind of stick they throw into the stove that kills all the Oxygen almost instantly.
ChimFex; FireEx; and Orion Chimney Fire Stop are the major brand of these.
My ChimFex by each stove look like a road side flare.
Or a stick of dynamite.
Just-In-Case.
I do not know exactly how these work. Not jest smothering, or cooling. Too quick. Gasses ionization stopping, I suspect.
But work, they do.
Often an unlined brick chimney in a creosote burn will go from a straight out rocket, once you woodstove side restrict and go into a ram-jet like chuffing. Gulping back air from the top, inside. Burn; puke out. Gulp another air slug again. Repeat. Repeat.
The ChimFex kills that.
S.U.
No. Not at all. Joke? Maybe. Fact? For sure. If you dont listen to your wife, there is trouble ahead.
That Peter Berg design, the original will come in a few days, gets its draft from the riser. All natural flow. Red hot and turbulance to get a good burn. What you do afterwarts with the gases is up to you.
Sorry, no glasses. Workef 16 hours. Tired. And my english is even worse now.
Peter Bergs site offering only under Creative Commons Attribution agreement.
I will never again mistakenly step into one of these quicksand traps.
“Once burned, shame on you”
“Twice burned, shame on me”
Two years. Two computers systems trashed to unusable. And stalked across four forums. Being baited/harried to finally shake that hook. The $1400. cash I’d spent out was nothing in comparison.
You wont get burned. That is the nice thing. It functions very nice. Kind of open source. The only thing is, you dont have a nice view on the flames. Nr one rule by the chief, and I cant agree more.
Haha. And got her out of her bmw and into a Tesla before she knew! Her free choice! Ha, just suply the right info. Go with the flow and everything will come out right. Swimming stream up makes you tired.
I need to go out and open the door so more dead wood can jump in my boiler .
The boiler quit , I turned off useless light over boiler , Boiler is working again .
And there you say it all.
The male and female spawning salmon who do the swimmin sturggle and achieve, are the genes who carry on.
Elk the same.
Old world vs. New World?
New-Age vs. Old-Age?
Or just gitter’done versus go-along to get-along.
Hey just chalk me up as American, eh.
It’s easier to not think it out too deeply.
You know THAT kinna’ of American.
Pearl Harbor payed back by fire bombing 63 Japanese’s cities.
9/11 so 20 years pay-back time.
Always just a bit more complicated.
My job at the electronic plants was to be department’s last out on evec alarms and palm slap all equipment’s big red stop buttons, and slamming down the red power off stands handles.
Don’t need many of my types. But you do need us, when you truly do need.
Actually I work the smooth-is-fast; and fast-is-smooth mantra.
A view for you.
24 hours of heating wood - conditioning.
No cold outside slogging except the once a day for this guy.
Obviously need the right wife.
The dog ate her wall paper so I’m safe . . . . for a time.
9-11 every thing has changed forever … Just another day . I saw the second plane and I knew every thing had changed forever . I went to work , The incident was mentioned .
Living here in Thailand, but been in europe before, kinda "mis"the cold weather or "need"for woodstoving…
Now i am adjusted to the local climate, anything below 20ºC feels damn cold…
I admire those who use wood as fuel for all everyday’s purposes… a skill long forgotten nowadays…
Last weekend i had a long discussion with a professor about the effects of burning wood on pm 2.5
She learned a lot, and after that she changed her mind into pro using wood as fuel…
They just need to be proper educated with correct verifiable data, compared with fossil fuel, nothing beats the purposely grown wood for fuel usage …
My biggest challenge so far becomes the largest dynofuel supplier from asia ( no joke ) but i am working around that…
Dang Tom, i beg to differ…
But how to give an example on what i try to explain with the use of wood instead of airplane dynofuel ?
Try this: go stand on an empty soda can, it won’t crack, but then shove some glowing woodchar on one side, watch what happends when your weight exceeds the strenght of the hot can resistance.
Try it, and let me know what your findings are…
Oh crap. Should have kept my mouth shut. Soda can is not a H beam with 3/4 plus thick flanges or 1 inch HT bolts. Try and melt a chunk of that with Kerosene. I used to enjoy forging blades when I had more time. Takes a lot of heat concentrated in one area to get steel to melting temp. Not liquid fuel with no direct air blower. Look at a car fire. Gasoline fueled with burning foam melts everything inside but despite the intense heat the 20 ga shell of sheet metal still looks like a car. Don’t know a lot, but I do know what 27 years of erecting structural steel taught me.
Thanks KoenVL,
Exactly why I titled this topic as I did.
Those who will understand, will.
Those who will not understand, sadly, will seem to never.
Not of my era age, or sub-culture group but a peoples real classification:
“You are a real tool, man”
Mean you are an inert nothing until someone else pick you up and puts you to working. THEY pick you up to do the work that THEY want. To be used, abused, worn out and damaged. Set aside for a newer tool. You are an Idiot.
So decide to be your own tool, directed and worked for you, by you, for your own purposes.
And that is the true freedom. And it ain’t measures in numbers, kW, Kw/hrs.
Now back to using wood-for-power.
ANY wood-for-fuel device using thermal-chemical with atmophere air can only be as good as the draft making part of the system.
System. System. System. Get it!? All good useable systems have balance as their core principal.
Any one who promote wood-for-heat and saying "I’ll show you the Best combustion process. You will have the drafting driving force/source as your problem . . . " Natural draft chimney!!! Insulation. Internal diameter! Lack of horizontal runs and excessive bends and turns!! Minimum height to get the pressure deference you will need! Too tall is possible too!
Well that system detached promoter is worse than an Idiot.
He is a peoples killer and a building burning down arsonist!
Longhair said by me has nothing to do with the persons actually hair. It is my culture way of say someone so myopically focused on his own little piece of a SYSTEM that he is dangerous. To himself. To others he can pied pier lead astray.
Ha! There I go again. Speaking in-culture. This time the reader student of human histories, sub-culture.
In real life I just cuss a lot. For attention focusing getting clarification. When STOP starts not working . . .“Hey ASSHOLE!” makes everyone stop and look up.
Sigh. Forum decorum restraint’s SteveU . . . overwise you become that which you hate.
Yes. Yes. I promise to try and be good. But sometimes the dog is right. Just chomp down and Bite it.
Regards to all actually Doing it for themselves in their real every day lives.
Steve Unruh
TomH. The first Towers bring down event did not work. 1992? 93?
Need better point focused, more power next time said the post analysis trained engineer.
Apply lots of heat at a point where MILLONS of tons of overhead weight can do the job. Use gravity as your best tool. Always there.
KVL’s try example you standing were that millions of tons gravity force.
Your hot metal under no stress example is irrelevant.
Heat to bend, man. Heat to bend.
Falling big tall columnar trees, let gravity doing it. First undermine one side down low. For control actually we hydraulic power jack opposite side. Once just a few degrees off of center balance, forced over, Gravity takes over. Of course devil in the details. Chosen direction. Safety hinge left uncut for this and 2-3 other real important reasons. Just have to be a real Feller, fella’ to understand.
I think the Tower bring-down engineer was just as surprised with the straight down vertical collapse as everyone. He was trying for a topping TIMBER lean over and fall… More damaging splatter out in a tight Urban area.
S.U.
40 odd years ago i took a job at a company that insulated those types of beams and girders it was called vicuclad , it was like a compressed vermiculite board that was cut and fitted around all exposed beams and support steel it had a high fire rating for a set amount of time to stop the warping and bending of support beams pillars to allow for fire men to cool down the fire to help stop the collapse of modern built building , from what i remember being talked about with the towers the lift shafts where the root of evil allowing a huge gust of air to come up and and increase the temp of the aviation fuel and turning it into one big oxyacetylene torch , or maybe thats just how i see it in my mind .
Dave
This was built in when I built the house. Started using it in 1999. It is a 30 inch by 30inch fire box built out of pieces of 8 inch channel 24 inches long. The back and non-door parts of the front are quarter inch plate. The door is pieces of angle iron welded into one another. The flanges of the channels are boxed in with sheet metal and then surrounded by masonry. At the back of the fire box is an eight inch deep plenum built to accept a box fan. The fan blows heated air through the channels that surround the box. A run of duct made of 10 ga sits above the top of the box and feeds flue gas back to the front of the stove. There is a clean out above the box for this run of duct which is as long and wide as the fire box. Four inches of concrete sit on top of this duct and then another same size duct takes the gases back to the rear and up a thirty foot long six inch flue made of Sch 40 pipe. Another four inch slab of concrete sits on that duct with another clean out on the side. Inside the fire box are two coils that feed hot water tanks on top of the heater to heat water pumped through the floors. I heat 2100 sq feet with this set up to above 70 degrees and then another blocked off section of house to about 50 with just the floor heat. There are two one inch holes in the back of the fire box that fan feed the fire. It always burns full tilt for about 12 hours a day. Heat in the thermal mass will hold it for the other 12 hours. With an average morning temp of about 15F the house will be right around 60 F when I fire up the heater in the morning. Despite burning a lot of wood very hot the flue coming out of the last duct run is always between 2 to 300 degrees F. All the rest of the heat is absorbed in the concrete and stone mass. I clean the flue at the start of the season, at the end of January and middle of March. Not a lot of creosote because the fire is always full bore but what there is comes from such low flue temps. One of the mistakes I made was not insulating under the first floor slab. At one time there was a debate over whether is was better to insulate or use the ground as a heat sink. Better to insulate. My second level floors which are inch and a half slabs with a PEX grid are very warm. The lower level 7 inch slab on dirt do not get much above 62F no matter how long they have water pumped through them. Not a condition that you can remedy if you choose wrong at the beginning like I did. The fan is just a cheap box fan. I usually get about two years out of one. Our average winter day time temps are middle to high twenties. I heat from the middle of October to the Middle of May. Right around 9 cord of hardwood in the average year. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.
TomH and your post shows why you have earned your + Premium “Star”.
“I did THIS. With these results. It functions just fine. Doing again; I would do this part differently, for these reasons.”
In truth how can any compare their system usages with any other. Too many variables.
I also heat October thru May. Just not having of do this at your more lower temperature differences.
One cord of my Douglas Fir has only 70% at best of the real heat value as your mid-west hard woods.
The only real comparisons and improvement measures are against yourself.
True this.
I used to have to account for 10 full cords of my DF per household. (7 cords of good hardwood)
Going modern certified clean air stoves; than then HOT operating them to get true no-smoke I was down to 6 DF cords. (4 cords of good hardwood)
Learning gasification basics. Char-bed. Char-bed. Char-bed. I was able to cut that back to a true year after year 4 cords, of DF wood. (3 cords of good hardwood)
These two little bare foot girls come into our lives living with us full time - and I am back up to 6 cords of DF a year. Me in Tee-shirts. The always runs hot wife moving her work computer station into our most remote bedroom.
Personal home heating systems; your developments should only be compared to yourself. I would certainly have done mine much differently without my wifes’ Nursing work licensed done here in Washington State forcing us to be mandatory liability insurance sensitive.
With out my wifes’ insistence of, “No big Ugly Black Boxes in MY house!”.
Talk about what you do, for sure.
Why you do it, for sure.
But always with a large: “Your Mileage WILL Vary”
Ha! Ha! In my wife’s last two vehicles with dash read-out consumption mileage Lie-O-Meters; I always best her by 10-20%. She is not at all impressed. Or changed.
No it is I still un-changed: having to change out too often, her worn out brake pads from her charging up to stops! Oh well says I, “Its just nuts and bolts.” And she feeds me very well. Tolerates my eccentricities.
Regards
Steve unruh
