Woodgas Fuel Characteristics Inside an Internal Combustion Piston Engine

Cody around here we call that a trar. Half truck half car, I have built and been part of building several. My last a Geo metro on a S10 frame with small block Chevy. HIDEOUS. HEINOUS and a whole lot of fun. I did a Subaru wagon on a short bed Chevy frame, maverick on a bronco frame, Mazda 626 on Suzuki samurai frame. Just slapping parts together to beat on the weekends and have a good time, and trust me good times were had, rebar steering linkage and tiewire throttle cables included :grin: ahhh nothing like floating valves in the mountains and burning gasoline by the tank full. Wheeling is a addictive hobby.

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From the way dad explained it, the frame was so short it only accommodated the engine and truck cab. Like a big enclosed go kart I guess?

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Yep done that to, called a cab truck. Mine was a square body Chevy half ton 2wd. Could get sick doing donuts in it because it whipped so fast. Got the idea from aircraft tug trucks the military used

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O.K. guys here is an engines heads treat for you:
Greg’s Airplanes and Automobile channel
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCynGrlal5vsJQgHJAIp9oSg
Specifically, this one:

Piston aircraft are moderate RPM light to heavily loaded. In this WWI German engine they used a higher compression ratio along with a secondary at-altitude more-air-in throttle to out power the lower compression ratio French and British airplanes.
Score one for the, The replacement for displacement is higher compression ratios.

On Gregs channel on one of his videos, Or maybe the Military Aviation Channel it says the Germans later in WWII forced to make synthetic gasoline lacked the means later on (Embargoed!!) to make high knock resistant aviation fuels. Stuck with 80 octane. Allied, American made aviation fuels were 110 and 150 octane. So the BMW and Mercedes aircraft inverted V-12 were made up to 50% larger in displacement to excel. Had to be fuel use hogs. Score one for the, Ain’t no replacement for displacement crowd.
Soviets in there too with a secret on-demand extra 100 hp more air throttle developed.

Hey TomH.
60’s American muscle cars here too.
Regards
Steve Unruh

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This type of combustion chamber would be ideal for wood gas operation, probably such engines were made by Case. The spherical shape of the combustion chamber allows for the smallest heat transfer surface in the housing, as well as providing a minimum distance from the ignition point to the final distance of the compressed combustible mixture.

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Was there sound on this or was it me?

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Full sound yes BruceJ.
You’ll miss 80% without his melodious voice explaining. I actually put myself to sleep letting his videos stream. Mmmm. Engines. And more engines. Real human hi-stories. Zero Woo-Woo. Engine porn my wife calls it. :relieved: :sleepy:
(her’s cooking shows! :drooling_face: and house renovation shows porn! :grimacing: :worried: :frowning_face:)

Unfortunately, Greg does not youtube set up for CC.
No CC, then no into other languages text translations. Sorry guys.
S.U.

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I tried from here, on YouTube, and on PC and no sound for some reason?

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This is new to me Tone. Thank you very much.
The last line of Operating Principals: “M-system engines . . .” indicated narrow range specialist usage.
Read all of Multifuel Operation to dicover with added spark ignition. Hurrah! Precise control then.

Here is another specialist engine:

Of course wikipedia Does multi-lingual offer. IF they would accept actual real paper or coin money I’d gladly contribute.
Regards
Steve Unruh

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“…the engine also doesn’t use any water cooling. Instead, only oil is used as a coolant fluid. No water cooling of the engine block was required, and only an oil cooler was used to cool down the oil circulating.” Wikipedia
I wonder if they mean mineral oil cooled or vegetable oil cooled?
Are they preheating the fuel by running it through the block as coolant first?
I would love to know how the injector pump survives vegetable oil, especially coconut oil, or other hi gel point oils.
I think you mentioned this engine more for it’s ability to handle gas, right? Or did I drift off here?

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Hi Back BruceJ,
I referred to this engines system as an illustration that piston IC engines can be made to narrow range specialist fuel on damn near anything. Dead cats putrefying if that’s all you got. Dr Blau’s, same-weight-as-air, Hindenburg engine Bau-fuel gas. IC piston combustion engines. The South African fellow Bates; pig-shits gas. IC pistons engines.

Now in the Elsbett specifically Mr/Dr? Ludwig worked hard for fuels heats made to shaft energy so efficient that he felt just cooling with an oversized (look at the bottom oil pan would be adequate. This wikipedia article is grossly abbreviated. The engine had very unique dual-thermal zone pistons, and four other features to do this.
Was never accepted by any of the European actual auto manufactures for production usage.
Think. They would have had to test in hot-hot North Africa. They would have to tested in far northern cold-cold Norway/Sweden/Finland.
Look at the huge power transfer cogged belted pulley on the middle of the engine jack shaft for the oversized oil pump and oil heat to veg oil warmer.
Look at the huge power transfer cogged drive belt pully on the upper overhead camshaft and to drive the injectors. Says much, eh. 50% larger than normal.
Look at the pictured backside huge exhaust to inlet air heater.

Now most interesting a Dutch group later bought the licensing enough to use some of this system and do VW/Audi, Mercedes, French and British existing diesel engines conversions to vegetable oil to be used neat/unconverted. They use small diesel tank reservoirs for starting and warming up. Then switch over to the then engine derived heats, thinned neat vegetable oils.
They will not convert car diesels with rotary injection distribution pumps.

Nope. I postulate the best combustion chamber shaping for woodgas would be flat underside cylinder head with large inline two valves. The actual combustion chamber in the piston crown as a shallow wide dish. Need to be somewhat looking down egged shape to get open/closing valved clearance with smallest cc capacity to get that 12:1, 13:1 compression ratio. The puzzling out which side of the valves to for best results to put the spark plug. Or Dodge Hemi-like, just use two spark plugs.

Ha! But just like the Elsbett story finally brought into real world usages.
Use what you do have. Adapt some. Accept what you do get as, the good enough, results.

Of course, just mostly all my own opinions. (and some do call me an opinionated asshole under their breaths)
Steve Unruh

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Don’t take it personal SteveU especially since in my opinion you are right about the combustion chamber. Tricky bit of business getting compression ratios that high without deep pockets though, at least on the types of V-8 engines we are considering. Dodge hemi’s are never going to be cheap enough for us to mess with. Good engine which somehow got god like status.

If you scan down to the bottom of this article where the big truck engines live and if you are not daunted by the vortec electronics then there are so prime candidates probably equal to the Dodge 440 wedge.

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Tell you what, the cheapest Vortecs you can get are the junkyard engines where the Active Fuel Management borked the camshaft. Just swap her out with non AFM solenoids and a new cam. May as well rebuild it a little if it’s a junkyard motor.

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Ha! Ha! And the Chevy guys speak up.
Actually, no dispute from me. The big blocks did by GM get fuel injected developed in the 1990’s. I liked them a lot. Almost never needed any work.

However . . . the most woodgassed large American auto engines I’ve ever seen was pictured up at a waste wood-products bio-mass to electricity site tried to be developed up in Canada. Must have been in the late 80’s early 90’s. Rows and rows of Ford 460 “big-lung” engines all belts driving up to jack shafts intend to work together. Hmmm. See the problem? And engine go down. What do you do cut the belts. IF clutched in the bell housing: how much burning clutch slippage to cut in an engine to an already up to speed drivne powered jack shaft, eh.

Word was first winter the designed in New Zealand gasifer end of it kept not producing due to freezing up blockages in one place or the other.
That ended up replaced out for a different larger actual industrial chip fed gasifier system. Then the generator room was showed and all of those big-block, Big Lung" Fords gone. Replaced with four larger industrial piston gaseous engines. Waukashas?

So related to my last post us moderate climate guys need a lot of catching up to run with the cold-climate guys in cold climates. The reverse going into hot equatorial deserts. Or rain forests.

Makes a fellow really apriciate the engine products that were developed that could be used in all of these conditions. Those early Fords. Now Hondas and Toyotas. Mercedes Benz. Nissan Patrols.
Pick your own personal favotites. Prove they can, and still can.

I’m a brand cherry picker. Dis-loyal? Huhh? What? I love my family. I love my dogs regardless of breeds. I’ve never work folks harder than I’ve worked myself.
Name plate loyalties? Thats nuts.
Tools are to do a job. Period. Yeah. Yeah. I’ll tap/rap with a screw driver handle. Pry with it’s tip. Vice grip clamp it for torque. To be sure. I won’t hot wench pretzel and grinder disc “specialize” a Snap-On, or MAC wrench. Got pawn-shop, garage-sale Craftsman for that. Because once muderfied for that one specialized job (Mitsubishi 2.6L SOHC V-6 Distibutor hold down bolt) it will be weaken for any all-purpose useage. Saved .5 hours on each and every Sebring Coupe tune ups. Flat rate beating.
Steve Unruh

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I come from a very empirical school of thought, I like what works and that’s about it. Hondas? Sure. Mazda FE engines? Yep. 90s GM? No problem.

I haven’t got to touch one yet but I’m impressed with the new Royal Enfield OHV parallel 650cc twin. Easy to service and they recommend you check valve lash every 6000 miles like a responsible manufacturer should, they don’t treat the customer like a dummy. Wet slipper clutch and Bosch fuel injection with proper tuned Fuel Map.

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Royal Enfield. That’s a name I haven’t heard in a while. Fuel injection on a motorcycle or chainsaw makes no sense to me. Do you tune it with your smart phone?

I’m not as brand focused as I seem. One engine works just like the next. Slugs running up and down in tubes, Air sucking in, exhaust pushing out. It’s just the same as rooting for Green Bay or Tampa Bay. It’s not about brand cherry picking but parts cherry picking. What is most readily available at the lowest price. I have always heard people raving about how many miles they got out of their Toyota for instance. When they were beating the crap out of American Iron it was just a matter of better blueprinting out of the factory. Is a guy dragging himself to the assembly line monday morning after partying all week end really going to care about end play to spec? Your lucky if he isn’t puking in the block. Robot gets it every time and if it doesn’t an alarm goes off and they shut down the line. Toyota had better robots earlier.

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Pass that man a Vega engine!

Vega_140_engine

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Golly Bruce. I thought Vega engines looked like this

image

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Correction Tom, that’s what a Vega is SUPPOSED TO LOOK LIKE!!! DAMN that’s gorgeous!

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Here’s the build video Marcus.

My view on this is best expressed by the waitress at the truck stop.

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