Hello Brett,
Welcome. We switched from steam to gas engines back in the late 1800s mainly because of equipment cost. Steam can be more energy efficient in some cases, but it seems that initial cost out weighed this in most people’s minds back then. As far as I can tell the same dynamics hold true today. This is from Gas Engines & Producer Gas Plants by Mathot 1905.
Rindert
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Hi all , i came across a lovely old steam generator on YouTube thought it might interest some people .
This is a long shot but if you can listen to the tune being played in this Video , i know i have heard this tune in a country style song but i cannot even get Shazam to find it , on the bottom of the video it does say original but i know i have heard this tune c’mon you country boys and gals help me out here .
Thanks Dave
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Dave I think that’s just a generic royalty free song. It doesn’t ring any bells for me.
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Thanks Cody , i could swear i heard it before its one of those buggy things that plays on your mind , well its stuck in my head for sure lol
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Steam is fun to watch but not very easy to build or fuel efficient. You can solve the “not very easy” part by making it a labor of love. You can’t really solve the efficiency part though!
DIY steam is going to be ~3-5% efficient in terms of shaft HP / watts out. Gasifiers into an ICE will be at least double that.
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I suppose that would be with an unmodified gasoline engine? Seems about right.
Rindert
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Great information
Here is a scenario that is interesting! Lots of crop waste is burned around the world. I am working at a coffee mill that has 500 tonnes of coffee husks to get rid of.
The mill uses a diesel generator when the equipment is running
The husks are being gasified- made into char aka biochar. As biochar it is valuable stuff. $50 to $ 100 or more a tonne.
The heat from 500 tonnes of biomass gasification/Pyrolysis is free and very accessible
Equipment that is simple to build and maintain is the goal. And very low cost. To take this heat. Turn to steam in a mono-tube boiler and steam goes to a diy built turbine then to a generator- so the mill has electricity. 4 kw will be sufficient to run the equipment. I can come from one, two or even 3 turbines
These coffee mills are near the coffee plantations so spare parts etc are impossible to get
Since this application the turbine can run at one speed is there a good monotube boiler system any of you suggest? And an easy to build turbine. Efficiency is not a priority sense the heat is being produced with or with out using the steam. Most important is easy to build and keep running. An operator will be there all the time
Thanks for the suggestions and comments
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If efficiency is not a holly cow, you may give a try to a common turbo. They easy handle pressures up to 5 bar and temps around 700°C, which is far beyond your limits. The biggest challenge will be high speed generator with the inverter. For steam of above parameters you don’t need a special boiler, any tank tested for the 20 bar pressure will work.
You also may avoid troubles with steam and use your waste heat to increase temperature of the air compressed by turbocharger and use it as motion fluid for the turbo like engine exhaust. Would be much more simple than messing with the steam
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Hi Dave @d100f thanks for putting this home-power steam to electric system video up.
This is pretty much one of the same systems that was for a number of years every summer set up and demonstrated here.
A generational family-logging and farm operation. Grandma operated a farm English tea house. The Pomeroy House.
I watched real, live; and asked questions.
This small one was their 10hp system used to belt drive buzz saw up slab wood from their saw mill.
A larger one powered a sled steam donkey winch they demonstrated yarding logs and loading onto either rail car or restored early trucks.
Some details on this small one:
It starts at zero steam pressure with a relatively lazy wood fire in the fire box. Lazy smoky chimney pipe. Once some steam pressure is built up and the engine is working the cylinder exhaust steam is routed up into the lower chimney to greatly increase the draft flow rate. Note then cleaner visible firebox exhaust with energetic puffs pulses.
He refers to water level in the boiler. Easy to refill starting with no pressure. But under operation pressure not shown was a needed three cavity water pressurizing filling pump. Steam shaft powered.
All of theses for logging wood milling power plants were vertical boilers with small bed fireboxes. Have to cut and fine split wood at ~12-14 inch lengths. So no loading up and walking away for an hour or two. Needed constant tending. The donkey winch took three men to operate. Wood cutter/splitter. The fireman/lubeman. The actual winch operator.
Another reason for the constant need tending; was external lubrication of all of the moving parts. Have to re-fill all of the oiler cups. Steam leakage and hot water dripage washing off all of the parts.
Interesting the back ground surround pictures shows he is Pacific Northwest. He is electrical generating with a made axial flux windmill type system to match up to the low engine rpm.
Used to be a fellow down in Australia who make ball bearing modernized steam systems
for small boats, cars and even motorcycles? who would make up for a price 1000 watt electrical systems. He would say a fellow would be operating costs and running expenses be better buying liquid fuels and generating for electricity.
Regards
Steve Unruh
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Thanks for the link to kimmelsteam. It’s been a minute since I looked through there. For anyone who doesn’t remember, Tom participated in APL’s Escape from Berkeley race along with Wayne and the WVO guys. I don’t see any current reference to that on his site, so here’s an article from the race we saved:
Tom also apparently wrote an article about wood gasification. Unfortunately it seems he doesn’t understand it well at all, which is unfortunate. He’s generally a very knowledgeable guy. He did put a link to DOW. I’ll link the article here.
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Thanks ChrisKY.
I’d never read his “diatribe” explanation.
Unfortunately, yes.
In our current information overloaded world this will be AI searched out and continue on perpetuating the woodgas nonsensical myths.
He is a dedicated steam guy who keeps using his intellect to push a spent rock up a up a steep slope. Never stepping back and reexamine the purpose of the doing.
The same I strongly feel as using your intellect and persuasiveness to oversell the benefits of man-made biochar to save the planet. Save a garden plot, or a small field: yes. But not widespread country sized area, let alone the whole planet.
What all of these energy harvesting techniques are doing is taking the full areas fallen sun energy; plants cells captured and then concentrating that and converting that down to an intentional purpose point of useful application.
Takes billions, multiple-trillions of rain drops collected up and concentrated into a stream or river to make hydro-electric power. The sun energy doing the heavy lifting. Gravity then as the actual power we tap.
Now back up and realized the emense energy Inputs and human endeavors needed invested to make the dam; the turbines; the generators; the power distribution systems.
The centuries developments and evolution to develop useable effective sail-power for transportations. View old pictures of a boat works. Then cordage making. Then the actual sails making. That stepping up from much more direct and simpler tech’s of human and animal muscle power.
Brainiac promoters cannot even do the simple maths of how many bodies will be required to operate your systems.
So by necessity then they have to rely on garnering in enthusiasm. Pumping up more Believers to contribute their personal energies to prop up the negative outflows a bit longer.
Inputs to achieve Outputs fellows.
Always should start with what you can achieve yourself.
And many of us chose to make what we personally can achieve be the reasonableness limiting point.
Steve Unruh
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Exactly right as is the whole post. Everything the beings on this planet needed to live and thrive was always here. Somewhere along the line the wanna be power brokers, from the local bureaucrat/petty tyrant to the empire builders wanted to usurp and channel all the natural energies to their own perverted ends and somehow convinced the masses that this was the natural order. Every wood gassed or steam powered engine or solar powered/heated dwelling is a blow against the empire. To preachy?
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Back in 2006 went to a lecture at NREL in Boulder, Colorado. The white guy giving the lecture was a chemical engineer. He had overseen a successful effort at Coors Brewing to gassify brewers grains and spent hops. Lots of very relevant facts and figures. Example: The American Rocky Mountain region produces enough dead wood annually to provide for 40% of U.S. energy needs. The dude might as well have been trying to promote the Nazi party. Nobody gave a rip for what he had to say. Facts and figures mean nothing to the grand majority of us.
I’d say human greed is perfectly natural, but not good for humans nor humanity. Genghis Khan and Vladimir Putin are natural too. Not everything natural is good.
Rindert
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