http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/fuels-higher-calorific-values-d_169.html
This toolbox has also a lot of numbers
Notice the differences
Hello KoenVL
If you use a tree wood heating value of effective usable 5000 BTU per pound or metric equivalents then the math will make much more sence. This accounts for an very real world typical average 20% fuel moisture.
All of these “calculators” always like to only quote fully heated up stabilized process numbers. Energy used heating up to stabilized conditions; and heat energy lost in post shut down cooling off are excluded. Big differences in actual daily operating realities system to system. My wife gets NEGATIVE subtacted miles per gallon with her long 10-15 minute warming ups in her car.
The real incalulated significant intangeble for DYI’s here on the DOW is fuel dependency Independence.
Priceless to be able to finger salute the whole Investor, Speculators, Commodities Traders, Social Dictocrats and life quality enslaving manipulators.
If I used a strickly mathmatical measurement I would heat my two houses with either my Govenment’s Big Hydro/Nuclear electricity or private market supplied propane like 2/3rds here do. With the high social taxes and year to year availability, maybe you will have it, maybe you will not, dependencies these always carry.
Same with chicken eggs here - $2.00 a dozen from a 3 million chicken horror house egg production factory located out in the middle of the nearest desert to support the wastes created - this IS NOT an exaggeration. Or local, neighbor small farmer grown and “illeagaly” roadside sold without the state manditory government registration, inpections, licensing, taxes or fees so then availble at only $3.00 a dozen. $6.00 a dozen for the local legal registered “organic” branded eggs. The big organic produceres lobbied our state so the state now owns the actual Organic name and this can only be used with registration and licencing. Sigh. I cannot support the resonable locals farmers as I am now on different scofflaw watch lists for my out spokness. Raise and grow my own chickens for the eggs and meat. They cannot stop or tax me for personal consumption or gift to family and friends. Depending on the hawk and coyote (giant American foxes) predator losses to my birds, my gardens fodder suppled, bug population, etc, etc, maybe $4.00 a dozen in true costs. MUCH better eggs!! Rich, rich orange yolks. People rave about our eggs.
The Freedom enjoyed is priceless!! Incalulatable.
As soon as you allow Them to put a fuel cost comparisions on woodgas from tree you already own then They now own you and you have already lost no matter how favorable the numbers would ever come out.
The security of the current fuel producers, distributors, thier investors and especially the multi-levels of governments addicted to the tax moneys is to always to first fissil fuel under price Alternative Fuels. Then regulate them unnuseable. Then step in, cherry-pick and buy them up as “failed” cheaply and suddenly they will be declared “Good” now that the profit and social control pipelines are filled up again to their benfit.
THIS WAS THE STORY IN THE 90’S WITH ALTERNATIVES after the created oil glut gutted all Alternatives worldwide.
Do read and study the FOA 72 report in the pdf’s here about 90’s bio-mass energy projects. That is the real story told.
ONLY TWO woodgas power operations survived through this gutting out! The ones with Principals who refused to use fuel costs matix comparions and DETERMINDED they were Only going to use thier own local owned wood fuels.
Ha! My topic so I can go a little extreme. Admin Chris can edit.
MY cost/value matrix factor is what I currently do have is always 3X better than anything I would have to purchase to acquire. So new to aquire MUST be 4X better. This IS sensable. Think about it. The Time to go find the new. The Time spent comparing the alternatives. Then Sales fees. Shipping fees. Taxes. VAT. Disposal costs of what you already DO have. SWMBO’s can be fierce about this.
I firmly believe only hope for woodpower IS us willing to bootleg Users. 10 years. 20 years. Watch and see. All of you.
Here. Now. Where I live in Washington and Oregon States the UrbanEcoGreens are continually lobbying to illegalize ALL woodburing for energy. No Joke. I live this. Two differert bio-mass plants proposed on old woodmill sites shouted down - so the dead trees rot and go up in annual wildfire flames.
My woodheating stoves are real $5,000. Plus systems each now to be legal and insurable here for what in the neighboring states of Idaho and Montana would have been $1500. max as all new parts.
Woodgas is the true personal individual Freedom fuel and should be respected as such. And that is what makes it far superior to Any fossil fuel.
Steve Unruh the scofflaw
Steve,
You made my point, i agree with you.
Since we feel the real power of wood, i disagree with those who just put the numbers on some paper and then use them as reference to compare.
If those numbers would be correct then there would be no difference between all of them.
i did find more then a dozen different “scientific” papers, all giving different numbers. Could it be that they don’t want the wood-gas progress and therefore just proclaim negative value’s ?
I take as reference the test Wayne performed, he did far better then any number from those “scientist”
Luckily i live in Thailand here, where they embrace the knowledge and are willing to proceed in a fast pace towards fuel import substitution.
I take it as my crusade to proof the opposition against wood gas are wrong 
Grtz
Koen
Steve, Your disertation on 8/10 was one of your finest. Bravo. And then 'round and 'round we go with more figuring and pencil sharpening.
Anyone missed it should go back and read it and think about it.
I’ve included a picture showing my daily two-or-three step conversion of waste logs picked up for free all over the place and processed right here by me at Don Quixote Plaza. Happiness is a sharp chain and a Fireside Friend and a woodgasser with a good monerator-hopper.
John
1 Like
Hi All
My/our normal 8-9 month rainy season has jumped started itself a bit early back in the last week of August. Many downpouring thunderstorms. I got caught with all of this upcoming rainy seasons worth of fuel wood still out drying down having a late, late start from the hanging on through the 30th of June clouds and rain. I cannot expect to be able to do any net effective outside solar wood drying again until July of next year. At lease 10 other DOW members in this same Evergreen wet western Washington State boat. Plus western Oregon, BC Canada and south Alaska members here. This is our reality.
Disaster? No. I will still burn this wood for heat over the next 9 months coached started with carry over remaining woodshed dry wood. Now though the wood heat has to dry the wood fuel. Only half the into room heat output.
Means I will have to use 2X the wood. That will mean 2X the wood handling labor and expense.
How does this related to woodgasifing for IC engine power??
Well for every 100,000 BTU’s of fuel energy you put into a piston IC engine you will get out ~65,000 BTU’s of heat. Gasoline, diesel, propane, methane you have no real fuel processing needs for these engine heats. So they are typically blown wasted away to save the engine from overheating damage. This is the CHP guys heat source.
Raw wood fuel gasifing, charcoal fuel gasifing; even vegetable oils fuel, waste motor oil fuel or motor fuel alcohol these engine heats are a very valuable needed fuel making/refining heat energy resources.
These are not a “waste” then; so do not waste them. Do not Dino/Hydro/Nuke fuel for your process heats if there is a working IC engine running near by. Put that engine to heat work!
Engine heats are the make or break heat resource that allows the use of wet/green fuel wood year around for gasification.
I will say this again: Put a working running IC piston engine in your developements right from the beginning for this needed process heats even if you will have to initially fuel it on bought out Dino fuels.
Put it’s output heats and actual fuel input demands into the system developement right up front from the beginning will save you years of developement wheel spinning going the “perfected” step by painstaking step route.
Hey “Cicerone” JohnS.
Mail box vandals got our old wooden mail box house flatten to the ground. For the new 4"x6" post I needed to pencil sharpen one end to drive it into an existing hole. Axes were all 1/4 mile away. My handy dandy FireSide Friend did the job slick.
Thanks again for the tool tip.
Regards
Steve Unruh
Hey David Laundry thanks for the compliment of reading this.
This simplfied maths efficiency approach applies well to wood stoveing for heat also.
Books and sites all will give you from 7200 to 8600 BTU’s per pound of fuel wood as optimal possible. Metric folk a BTU is close enough to calories to just use kilocals instead. What is important for discussion is the percentages. For actual functional useable space heating the gross Heat in whatever measurment is what is important.
So DavidL I just simplify this and wood stove or gasifier use an effective 5000 BTU per pound of fuel wood used. This accounts for up to 20% wood moisture and allows for a reasonable to achieve 80% heat into the house space heating efficnency actually delivered.
Then just a matter of knowing your home BTU’ per hour needs for your average heating conditions and sizing the firebox for then the amount of fuel wood by weight and volumn you will need to use in an hour to generate the gross BTU’s release that you will need.
This IS where it starts.
The rocket stove folk and nano-efficiency chasers aways system undersize here. Have something then without the flexibilty to handle exterme weather swings. Then get stuck having to fine split down and short saw chunk up ALL of thier fuel wood into fine sticks and chunks. POOR sweat efficiency in that unless you have teenage slave labor willing to work for just for peanut butter and a bed.
Ha! I’ve seen your wood stove picture.
What these “ultimate” efficiency chasers do not realize is you and I can take our oversized iron mass stoves and to heat them up to operating temperatures easily cycled as high velocity Rockets intitally. Then switch to a closed up tight air controlled hot stove mass driving a slow, slow velosity, very low flue/chimney heat loss “American” buring cycle.
We even can paper/cardboard/twizzle sticks/bark chunks over-aired “Russian” “Finn” “Swiss” rapid mass cycle heat up and thermal cycle then coast along for hours. 3-4 times refireing in 24 hours with these high mass iron stoves on very little fuel used.
And we CAN even in these, TLUD (top lite, updraft) cycle as we wish. I do this as is beneficial with the three different levels of controllable air points into mine.
Of couse the devil in the stove internal details is to get this 80% efficiency and this broad range of capabilities. Ha! My latest I can even top load dump in paper bags full of woodshed floor slivers, chunks and bark chips that’d choke any gasifier.
Takes a good, experienced, knowlwdable operator to do these streachings out buring modes.
We’er back into the Pineapple Express weather again. 50F and drizzling rain with 35 mph wind gusting the drizzle sideways. Winter in western Washington state.
Russian/Finn/Swiss mass cycle heating for this to keep from driving the house up to 80F inside.
Regards
Steve Unruh
The bottom half is a timberline that wouldn’t hold enough wood for all night burn in a big drafty house so I installed this other stove on top. Once lit and going good I usually never open the bottom doors. Load from the top and once its going good you can put wet wood in and will be dry by the time it hits bottom. It takes about a half a wheelbarrow to fill it. When I stated that us wood burning people had an edge on others I only meant that we know about stoves and wood, which is and isn’t something to apply to gasifiers but it sure helps. So many variables.so many species, so many densities. When you stated your hatred for cottonwood is when I knew you were the guy to talk to. David L.