YouTube Small systems Builds

Small Engines
#41

Dave yours and BobMacs posts here speak well of why-can’t-we-all-get-along-together.

And I understand the accent problem some too. I had a Canadian-American for a Dentist for 30+ years. Have Canadian friends. Live close to Canada . . . . so . . .
Recently here on the DOW slammed for putting on airs letting my accent slip into my posts wording instead of pure American ABC/NBC/CBS wordings. Sheeez.

I live in a small town and surrounding area with a small Roman Catholic Church. An old 1903 Historic; and a new all denominational Evangelical-Free Churches. A 7th Day Adventist church. A Latter Day Saints Church. A Jehovah Witness Temple. And a large Apostolic Lutheran Church. An a very small come-and-go sponsored by these others, Recovery church.
The Reasonables; the Peace-seekers in all of these get along well; themselves; and their families, and their kids mixed in school by not converting prositilizing “poaching” from each other.

As well known: two of the eight of these do send out their youth out to do missionary bicycling and walking conversion work. Done smartly. They missionary out in not their own home areas and communities. Like good well ran Union pickets. Do what you must. Make your statement. Keep the peace.

But Freind Dave, and Freind BobMac read up at the recent posts here, and on other raw wood new small engine efforts topics, too.
The absolute stated: you-will-always tar up sooner or later woodgasing with wood. The stated: I am a good fabricator and I could not make a system that could run unattended for 2-4 hours using any form of raw wood. I’m smart. I tried hard. So since I could not . . . you cannot possibly either.
Here was the first small engine woodgas DOW walk-away I became aware of. Who knew and had self-learned that you can TOO for home electricty back up woodgas engine power To supplement his PV solar. To supplement his home wind turbine. Then set up his own site of Info building encouragement proofs:

He home wood heats in his own made woodstove. He foods cooks in his from fossil coal to wood kitchen stove. Water heats with wood too, of course. Has Driven On Wood too. Two vehicles.

I have now accumulated many of these small sites links.
I am not quitting the DOW.
I am not asking anyone else too either.
Forum decorum even says I, you, even the Admins; cannot even ask that these Charcoal Only prostilizers stop door knocking and poaching.

I show 86,600 posts read I’ve read. 4,800 info, corrective, and encouragement posts I’ve made in 10 years.
I reckon (regional accent) at least 500 of these were putting up info on using raw wood versus use premade charcoal. No more. Not one more. Read back here on this topic string at #2; mine, as one of my last reasonable attempts at reasonable reasoning.

Hereon I will track down small engine raw wood gasifer guys frustrated: and link them up with one of these other alternative Info sources.
So they do not have to be subject to post after posts of charcoal bones-jumping (another regional phrasing).

I will find raw wood small engine walk-a-ways and link them up with an alternative.
So ban me for this.
Steve Unruh

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#42

Ya I’d like to see that challenge, but let’s make it fair, you say charcoal comes from wood so let’s start with wood , say my fire wood, dry standing tamarack 4 “ to 15 “round and 20 inches long , I’ll bring my log spitter to spit the wood to your retort size and mine also, say we each get 100 lbs, I bring 100 dollar mitre saw your bring 100 dollar retort, then we make our supply, and see how many Hrs run time we get on a 10000 watt gen, my 100lbs and your 20 to 25 lbs after grinding and screening, after I ran for a few hrs, I could prob give you some charcoal from a clean out so you could not wait 24 hrs before you can run.:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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#43

Breathe Steve.

Some people hit the ground running.
Others need to learn to walk.

Wood Vs Charcoal

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#44

There shouldn’t be a Versus anything. This is a forum of colleagues and people needing help with wood powering various things, generators cars stoves boilers etc etc.

Steve I don’t see any problems with linking resources to others. I feel like all of the forums should be inter-connected so information is still being shared. We don’t need a self made Iron Curtain for Gengas production. Language barriers can already make it tough enough.

Maybe we need a soft Don’t Ask Don’t Tell policy. Or maybe that would make things worse who knows, I’m not Dr Phil.

I stand behind my idea of people signal boosting their favored ways to make Gengas on media like YouTube, Facebook, maybe even TikTok like Vitaliy has done. Stand behind your ideas, a picture is worth 1000 words, and video is 60 pictures per second. Make brochures hand them out at car shows like Steve Bowman has done. I have copies of his brochures they’re very nice! I remember watching Chris Saenz’ videos and seeing that big 3 ring binder in his pickup to show any curious bystanders.

Edit: I also think people shouldn’t dog on the other fuel designs. Both have their own definite wheelhouse and both can be made to do just about any job of the other. People used to say you couldn’t use wet wet wood in a gasifier, but Wayne and Joni have proven that otherwise.

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#45

My reply to this statment is this Steve. I have never tared up my engine yet. And with proper maintenance and operation in running my wood gasifier I never will. Leaving my gasifier unattended running for 2 to 4 hours. Humm. That would not be a very smart thing to do on any of my gasifiers. I guess it is my 35 years in hydro operations and training. As a operator you always need keeping a eye on things even if they are in a auto mode of operation.
I for one am trying to make a WK Gasifer that will run a small engine. I think it is in 12" firetube size opening but with a shorter ? 7" ? to the smaller restriction opening and grate ? Still working on the sizing of it.
This will be mobile unit but can be used as a stationary unit for generation. It will be a WK flex gasifier lighter weight then my present WK gasifier. This has been already done with the Imbert gasifiers units for long term running hours.
Bob

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#46

That’s it: right there in your statements Cody.
Shout out to the World.
Convince others.
About what? A better way? Thats the missionary way.

Now contrast me, others who want to one-by-one help those with needs.
Ya know, Mother Teresa. Amish. Mennoties. Friends.
Example of living it. Doing it.
The worthy will sort themselves out. Without huppala, shouting and noise.
I was raised Holey-Roller/Speak-In-Unknown tonghs Pentecost. I know. Handed out salvation tracts on city street corners as a kid 10-15. Fought my way thru 5th-9th grades as the stick-up-nail different.
To be deserving and truly worthy is actually hard earned worked for.

Start with heating with wood. Wood sweat for that wood.
Then imagine 2x that annual for electric power.
3x-4x that to convert over to most of your driving on wood.

You shoot, yeah, eh.
No sense sheltering a beginner from all of the sound and recoil. They must have some.
You know 300-500 rounds to just begin to get good. Expensive.
As soon as . . . have them kill something. A chicken. They choke. Well. Ain’t for you. Why waste more rounds. Give’em a length of 1 1/4" water pipe and a good luck. Come the need ever, for you, or a loved one; you’ll sort it out. Or not. Don’t create another AD/UD claimer.

Woodgas for small engine is the same.
Tar up simple easy engines to actually learn the other 75% quickest best.
Everyone here a full range capable woodgaser has learned this way.

No Wallace my early woodgas years 2008-2010 were not hit-the-ground running. The importance is to always get back up. Do again until understandings evolve.

Not crawl. Not be handheld safe. Stumble forwards. Getting better and better gongs forwards. Stronger. Faster.

I have more than few times offered to fellows to shorten their woodgas for generators stumbling by two years. Works usually. Only works without the over shoulder kibbitzing.
S.U.

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#47

Bob in house wood heating you have to develop heating power making safe stabitlty to drive away to work. To a store. To school. To go to bed to sleep.
J.O. is my hero for developing his whole house wood heater to be able to leave burning for a whole shift. Wife, family safe.

Woodgas generators for 2 hours is relatively easy. Use DC chargers. Variable speed inverter generators. 4 hours much harder, but very possible too. Run out of engine runnable gas it quits. It quits an air in must auto close. Ticky-ticky flap self seals!
Longer than that is when fuel stock feeding automation must be done.

Re-watch the videos I put up here. They can. They do this.
S.U.

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#48

All this talk about wood gassing small engines VS charco running small engines, I have been led too believe any moitor smaller than a 1,8 --4 cyl --[ aprox] would be safer to charco power due too tar from wood gas, from not enough pull on the gasifier too crack all the tars. SO steve what is your experiance with wood gas power 10 or 20 HP motors from wood, and what gasifier design works for small engines, or am i on the same page.

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#49

Thank You Kevin.
THIS is exactly my problem.
The great misleading. I could not; so you cannot either.
Mr Tone on another topic lined out well what a small engine woodgasifier must be.
Well insulated internally, and extremally. Reasonable heat recycling back up int the wood fuel and air inlet. Sized match internals to do get HOT and stay HOT.
The hooper capacity MUST NOT overwhelm the limited small system thermal capability.
Look up here on this topic at Flash001USA’s system for his evolution of that.
DeanL here just finished up his BenPetersons book system. By the 3-4 liting has been engine running.
I did come to admire much Larwrence Garringer’s systems videoed above.
That LEAF system looks solid.
Dutch John evolved his DJ3 to his satisfaction. the www.woodgas.nl Microgasifier link.

Read above and realize I live in an area with eight recognized Beliefs systems. These all work.
Ha! And I must attend outside the aera: my Wifes.
Happy Wife. Happy Life.
S.U.

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#50

Yes Steve I agree with you. Heating with wood? I have no real exprearance with this. My fireplace is not operational and it is LP. Lol worthless if the power goes out. My goal is to be able to generate on wood short term when needed. I can do it on charcoal already. But I want to do it on wood too.
When I am told you can’t. Something inside me says I will. Lol sounds about right. It is just me. I can’t help it.
Bob

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#51

My military friends call that the survivor spirit. Hell or high water I’ll prove you wrong just because you said I can’t. Makes a guy fail up, each failure a learned reason. Lessons, teachings, adapt and overcome. Lately I have been asked about my truck several times at local gas station, fellows across the street at the bar questioning smoky hopper reloads daily finally inquired, now a small crowd comes by each night to watch gawk and take pictures. Many never knew it possible and yet so far no professed non believers of it working, surprised me. Gas is gas, it can run a engine

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#52

All of the brainiac Master Techs at work loved my Mazda, even in it’s super rough prototype stage. They can’t wait to see a Modern GM vehicle with one on it and running. One remembers when GM brought in the experimental Hydrogen powered taxi cabs.

One of the Techs, Kenny, has even given me ideas on how to make the tricky distributor on the Mazda adjustable without a risk of oil leaking or messing anything up, since I can’t rotate the Cap(whole assembly rotates to adjust timing), he says to use a nylon washer for bearing and oil sealing and to barely crack loose the adjustment bolt maybe with a split washer for tension, then use a cable to adjust in the cab. I’m honestly about this close to making the Mazda an all WG vehicle and locking the Distributor full Advance.

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#53

I do not care what anyone runs there engines with to make power be it wood gas black diesel cooking oil , or even if its a wind or solar set up , the reason behind all this talk about what’s easiest has started by new members coming on here because they are worried about how they are going to be able to afford to live the life style they are accustomed too , i don’t know about you guys in the states and Canada , but here and in England its getting pretty worrying how we are going to be able to pay for gas and electricity , in England back in i think it was April people were told to take a meter reading before midnight on a certain day because the next day there power bills would be increasing 5 fold , that was then and this is now , this is taken from part of the story , as i did not think you would want a link to over sea’s news article , here is the headline " Crompton also told Dorset Live: “We have been paying £1,800 to £2,000 a month for our electricity which is weather dependant. The renewal quote is £72,000 and that starts from the beginning of September.
Back in 2020 when i had a place in England recycling plastics our electricity bill was a average of 10.000 pounds a month sometimes more but hardly ever less

Now getting back to what i think the reason behind all this is that lots of everyday tinkering kind of people who have some knowledge engines / welding / fabricating ect have picked up on war time storys of how they coped through those dark days an then maybe did a Google search and found a Wayne Keith article in some mag or paper or youtube video’s showing a engine running a generator or flare for a few mins , most not all do not realise the amount of labour and hours that go into building a real working wood gasifier and need something NOW and i can sympathize with that i don’t have a workshop here at home so anything that needs welding , bending, fabricating has to wait till i go to Brians yard a 40 min drive away , the charcoal systems i have built have nearly all been weld free systems and taken a few hours to get working and making power , and i think that is what most people want , they want something to get going with so the pressure is off them so they have time to smell the roses take stock and then decide what system they can build that may or may not run wholly on wood chunks .

Talking of wood chunks Dean your offer is tempting but i do not go out and and make charcoal , i do sometimes make charcoal when i am at the yard and we have friends around and then its nice to stand around the retort having a cold beer while the fire is making charcoal , then when its time to go home i put a lid on it and seal it up and its done for another day , that is not fuel prepping in my eyes as we would normally have a fire going anyway . no i make my engine fuel from the 2 wood heaters i have in my house , every time i load the fire with wood i take out the charcoal , i make enough to run my engine for at least 4 hours a day , hard work ? hmmm yeah but no but well maybe sometimes it can get a bit tiring but its no big deal .
Thanks
Dave

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#54

All great points on what too build into the design for all gasifiers, heat recovery, and reuse for hearth air feed. and extra insulating, all help make tar free fuel,keeping the process hot enough too cook the tars out of the wood. I supose smaller engines might need dryer wood than a WK V8 truck gasifier design, But seems too be doable, wood gassing smaller engines/ I might try a good size twin cylinder for home power back up generator, That would be about as small as needed for home power generator. A well insulated hearth, ceramic blanket with good coats of stiffeners, and well insulated outer hearth housing, a smaller hopper as too not over extend the hearth from excess moisture above the hearth, and a well built heat exchanger, as built intoo the Wayne Keith gasifier, should help make small engine raw dry wood gasifier work well enough tar free fuel, without a ton of tar filters, And of coarse a good cooling rail too get rid of moisture , that seems too take some tar with it on all the gasifiers small or large engines.

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#55

Hey Steve,

I have been lurking and occasionally kicking my two cents in recently. There is so much information and lively discussions that it can be overwhelming. I never felt that I was being pushed in one direction or another but my impression is that it is easier to have success with charcoal bearing in mind the constraints of making it, but lots of people can use wood as long as they are mindful of the requirements to work well. I am a long time wood stove user and a volunteer firefighter so am fascinated by the combustion process. I followed Matt’s evolution from wood to charcoal and now a blend. I am 60 so it is good to see the younger guys coming along. With the economic climate I can foresee much more interest of this alternative. I would rather there be a lively discussion and deep science than it being dumbed down. I enjoy the philosophical discussions as well. We need to be able to discuss things and agree to disagree. That is one of the roots of so much strife today. The gardens are fantastic and preserving. I am/was a 4th generation logger but enjoy hearing about Wayne’s farm and how that works. Would love to meet and have a long chat with most of the regulars. I have a buddy by Bellingham so would potentially be able to see some of you. I think most of the misunderstandings are because of the limitations of the printed messages. Saddened by the departure of Joni ? because of the unsolicited offers of help. keep up the give and take.

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#56

There are diffident viewpoint been brought out here now.

I started this topic with an over one million view youtube of a raw wood system a fellow made up with no welder and minimal equipment. And then loaded ran a small electrical generator with it.
Not an ideal system, no. But it works! His design is valid. As I commented his Operational procedures could be improved. Made from lay about. This guy’s is your F.E.M.A. system killer!! Listen careful to his words, and reasonings.
So there Cody. So there TomH. So there Dave. Your can-do ‘almost’ as simple as a Gillmore charcoal can system except as a raw wood system.

Fabrication complexity for a really good developed wood fuel gasifier . . .
Nothing, nothing in the whole DIY woodgas field is more complex, with more weld line. Difficult weld lines as a full featured Wayne Keith vehicle system.
Theses do get built 30? 40? 50? times here and because they perform.
VesaM’s book systems. Not as many weld lines . . . but all in stainless steel welds and with a percentage of lathe machines parts. Why? It performs.
The 2-3 Mother Earth News gasifiers been DYI built here. All of the needed to be weld lines especially around it’s many "J "air tube in three? places. Why build such complexity? It performs.

So why can’t a well developed raw wood gasifier for small engines be advanced features for performances too?? Some of Ben Petersons Shop built all SS units. His Book system for DIY.
GEK/APL’s surely got very advanced difficult to fabricate.
MattR would be the one to speak about his earlier raw wood systems.
My point why does small generator gasifier system have to be no-equipment, minimal skills stuck with low performance just a step above a F.E.M.A?
They do not.

Then the small fuel wood prepping issue for small systems.
Easy. Do not slave away making big trunk wood into tiny chunks . . . shear/saw/chop up the 20%-30% of a tree that is limbs and branches for that fuel. Large brush is good too.

I wood stove woodstove down to thumb thickness stuff. Seems wasteful to debris pile burn that fuel gold.

Other re-occurring themes brought out.
Just who the hell are you small engine woodgasing for, eh?
The World? Impossible. The world quit the Age of solid fuels combustion for the most part 70 years ago. Spoiled now in liquid fuels easy

Or for yourself? Now, at that scale is very doable.

45 minutes daily you can make up raw wood for your 2-4 hour run. Spend the time/effort to achieve this.
And Kevin stationary you can use nearly all of the engines exhaust heats and engine blown hot air to dry down even green cut wood to gasifer dry. Just-in-time. Tested. Done. And the maths work out.
S.U.

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#57

Good day Steve, I am of the same opinion as you, producing gas from raw wood is the way that comes first for me, I told myself that gasification of coal for gas production is a good process, but for “real men” it is raw wood gasification process. I have already said several times that with a small wood gasifier, it is necessary to ensure that there are no heat losses, because the ratio of surface area / volume is much larger with a small gasifier. as with larger units, the shape itself is also important, tall narrow or lower wider, but here I would choose the lower and wider variant. All in all, it is an effort to conserve energy, if we ask ourselves some basic questions: What is the basic condition for gasification to take place? – temperature How do we reach and maintain this temperature? – by burning part of the generated gases, i.e. part of the wood. How is this reflected in the resulting gas? – We are losing fuel, there is a greater proportion of inert gases in the gas, the gas has a poorer energy density, tars can appear, moisture… The only heat loss that is justified is the condensation of water vapor, I do this only on the cover, at a lower temperature unit, but I will try to do it in a separate refrigerator. Kristjan said that a maximum of 30% of the waste heat of the generated gases can be returned to the preheating of the fresh air, but at least that much can be returned in the form of heating the storage tank, where the wood dries and partially gasifies, we can also preheat the gases returning from the condensation zone… … but I try to take everything into account with my gasifier…

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#58

Most believe, including the people on this forum, that what we see in the world at this time is a temporary glitch and that things will sort themselves out and we can all return to our mindless consumption. Well, it’s not going to happen. Climate change is real but it’s not man or cow fart driven. That agenda is only designed to milk more taxes out of you. Not going in to a rant about how the people in control of governments are increasing obsessed with getting you locked into smaller and smaller cages. If you can’t see it and react to it then you will experience pain. Your only option is to make you self as independent as possible. If you absolutely have to go to the supermarket weekly to feed yourself or if you absolutely depend on a gas line feeding your furnace or if your water comes out of a municipal processing and pumping facility then you are in deep shit. You are the proverbial frog in the pot on the stove. Wood gas is a solution to some of these issues. Produce it according to whatever base carbon source you have available. If you don’t understand that infrastructure is rapidly breaking down and as the money supply in the world is being funneled up to what they call the one percent, no significant money is going to be put into power, roads, bridges, ect. These people believe they are set to live out their lives in gated conclaves and have no interest in providing for the useless eaters. You are on your own and you better get your ass in gear because you are already seeing your supermarket shelves go bare, your transportation cost skyrocket and your health care basically dependent on how much of the WHO agenda you are willing to swallow. No reason to have to choose sides. When they are not longer keeping the tank under your gas station pumps supplied and your house is cold and your kids and grandkids want a plate of food then charcoal or wood becomes moot. Self sufficiency in whatever means possible will be the bottom line.

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#59

People will swallow a lot Tom

Generally the smallest easiest portions to swallow are the ones that fit into your own ideology

If you want to be a genius like me just say everything sucks and your never wrong

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#60

I agree with all you saying, i like the idea of useing the exaust and the heat from around gasifier too heat the wood just before it is used in the gasifier, just build a small insulated shed around the gasifier and heat exchanger, and leave a open grate and screen on top of the shed for wood drying, and plum the engine exaust intoo wood heating also.

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