Chris so how do i put the heat back to the gasifier? my first idea was to use this heat to dry out my next batch of wood currently I’m using the 700 f gas in an “oven” for wood drying. on its way to my cooling radiators… a lot of my heat radiates from the side of the barrel (the gasifier itself) into the air…around it… should i put a shield around it and pipe the air into the intake air for the gasifier?..
. perhaps Wayne can chime in??
Yes, heating the intake air is your best bet. The hotter you get that the better it will work. Catch heat from anything you can, using a shroud or heat exchanger, however you can design it to transfer the most heat.
Fuel drying is good too, but it will be extra work to keep up with little batches.
Good Morning John,
Sorry to be so long getting back with you but I have been running wide open.
A good test for the gasifiers to ensure they are not wasting energy is to paint the entire unit with standard paint (not heat resistant). If the paint burns or scorches you know you are wasting heat to the atmosphere.
oh yes the paint will burn right off… depending on how hard I’m pulling on the system… so how do i reduce this level of wasted energy? today i loosely put some fiberglass insulation around the gasifier and i think it ran better and the motor had more consistent gas at lower rpm’s which made stop lights much better !
so i have 1500 to 1600F degrees in the restriction zone… and sometimes the output gas will get in the 900- 975 f range but produces well at 400 f . what changes would you all suggest? I’m thinking about the 3.2 hole in the bottom of the restriction zone perhaps i should change the size to say 4" ?? the flare is the other night … i think its a good color.
John
Hi John,
The wasted heat is just one aspect. You have several factors in keeping the heat in, not generating too much heat, keeping the hearth hot enough, keeping the output clean. It basically comes down to your gasifier design, you can’t really fix this stuff after the fact.
I think you’re starting to see the light. There’s a major difference in a system that runs and a system that runs well. I went through the same thing, even built a whole truck system that ran for about 2 miles… You’ve hit it luckier than me with a truck you can drive around, but I would guess you are headed for maintenance troubles in about a thousand miles. Have you provided for the following?
condensate storage
hopper condensate collection and storage
tar collection and disposal
complete radiator and plumbing flush
carbon cleanout in the engine
robust connections that can take vibration and abuse
double redundancy in plumbing and filters
positive airflow shutoff to gasifier
check valves/puff back protections
Not ragging on you, just bringing up the things that struck me about Wayne’s truck when I first went to visit. I was feeling pretty good about my build but I hadn’t provided for any of this. I saw right off that I had two choices - tinker with my current truck and try and get it to run “good enough”, or go from the ground up designing for capacity and longevity. While the former would have been fun, I really want a reliable daily driver. So I made the tough choice - pulled my current system and started fresh. I chalk it up to education.
I posted all my adventures on the weblog, http://eatmorechili.blogspot.com including the decision to redesign from the ground up.
no worries i have always looked at the first build as a learning experience … besides it would only take a day or so to weld up another gasifier. with better sized openings inside… i may be able to recycle some stuff from the first one but i may just start over…
for the time being I’m continuing to experiment with the one i have. since i can’t really recycle the lost heat from my first gasifier i think ill elect to insulate it well and see what improvements that could make… with a little insulation i see an improvement in gas quality and low rpms so i want to now insulate the whole barrel and see if it improves. I’m sure it will … in the mean time ill think about how to better build the next one! ill check out your blog and welcome any advice!
so now my condesate and tar go to the same spot… and i just drain it together. i can run a brush down all my cooling tubes… carbon clean out in the engine?? no i don’t know anything about that? i have noticed the carb looks darker in color from the wood gas but short of an engine tear down how would you clean the carbon out? i do not have a hopper condesate collection but it wouldn’t bee to hard to come up with something for that. the only filter I’m using is a 55 gallon drum filled with hay… and I’m collecting condesate from the bottom of that barrel…
puff back … yes
positive air flow shut off … yes
tar / condesate storage yes .
what do you mean by double redundancy?
when i light the gas in the day you can’t see any flame … just heat distortion … doesn’t this mean i have a good gas suitable for the engine?
John
John,
Looks like you have the bases covered. Just to answer your questions:
Insulation is good! Insulate the right spots and it will increase your gas quality and efficiency.
Advice for next time? Check out Wayne’s system! You will learn some things…
Carbon in the engine, it’s collected by the oil and just means more frequent changes. How often is up to you.
Carbon in the carb is a different story. You will have a hard time cleaning it out, and it will plug things up. Wayne moved to fuel injection for exactly this reason.
Double redundancy as in failsafe. Wayne runs two lines because he can have one line plug up and the other will carry the flow until he gets it cleared out.
Flares are pretty but they can be misleading. My gasifier made pretty purple flares, and wouldn’t run the engine above an idle. You aren’t pulling enough to simulate an engine, and a dirty flare may clean up at higher flows, meaning higher temps. But yes a clean flare is a sign of good gas.
I put another 30 miles on the truck today pretty good power and a top speed of 60 mph. at times i can tell the motor is pulling hard on the system as the barrel will pop from the vacuum i try to keep my foot out of it and pull lightly on the system. but sometimes i just can’t help it… she can be a little finicky about the air fuel mix… seems what works one day doesn’t the next. just like wane said. and i constantly have to play with it. the o2 gauge is usually reading a lean mix at idle but at running speed i keep it at 15 to 17… although the motor seems to run well at 20. which is the top part of the scale on my o2 sensor… below 12 and it stalls… the vacuum gauges finally came! woo hoo ! now i can monitor vacuum in the system one is destined for the hopper one on the gasifier (other side of the grate) and one on the engine …
for the next gasifier I’m thinking a much larger restriction zone and maybe a 5" hole in the restriction plate… i think ill have the nozzles enter at an angle that 30 deg or so pointed at the restriction hole … i think the two sets of nozzles really work well and ill do it again. this time with the ability to fine tune the different nozzle rings .the only other way i see to improve this is to redirect wasted heat back in via the nozzles and increase the sizes for more gas into the motor (I’m thinking with larger supply lines i won’t have to pull so hard on the system). although 35 -50 mph is not a problem with my current build … to get 60 -75 i need flat ground. which is hard to come by in new england. well thats all for now … i think I’m done with this build and ill insulate the entire gasifier redirect a little waste heat to the intake and runn it till it melts… to my surprise it hasn’t yet … I’m actually quite surprised about that… I’m coming up to about 400 miles on wood now without any real major problems… other than trying to run wet wood … which never ends well … 
lol… my fuel today was waste wood chips from roadside brush … that i collected from the top of the pile so it was nice and dry… .i aded a high tourqe starter from summit racing… and that has no trouble turning the motor over … i can start it on wood with no help from gasoline now. i used to get the motor running on gas then switch over… well thats all for now
Cheers all and many thanks for all your input! I welcome all criticisms and compliments and look forward to all your responses. this has been the coolest thing i have ever built and i couldn’t have done it without all the good advice! many thanks to all.
John
Hello John,
Sounds like you are coming along good. Glad you have the vacuum gauges, they will help a lot with the driving. And yes the motors will run their best on the lean side of the o2. sensor
I like to advise people driving on wood gas is similar to learning to ride a bike.
You can read all the books, study all the charts, grafts talk to the experts, read all the scientific papers, study all the history. But the only way you will really learn is to get on and ride. Yes you will skin your elbows and that is part of the learning experience.
The best way I know to learn wood gas is to put the rubber to the road. Keep up the good work.
BBB
Wayne
Hi All
I’ll echo Wayne’s advise.
Only fuel wood burning is really learning. And only loaded engine running with the woodgas is really learning well.
Flares are interesting, but just that. An IC engine is the ultimate gas qualifier.
I started this stuff four years ago. Pretty much wasted a whole year spinning my wheels reading, thinking, speculating until I saw, heard, touched, and even tasted my first woodgas running engine. Just DO it. Thats what you have now accomplished John Wells. Then as you say do it better, quicker, easier the next time.
Pity some I know from four years ago stuck still at the speculation step. Still looking for a new age, woo-woo tech “Back to the Future” solution that will operate on “wastes” when we are surrounded by Ma’ Natures pre-packaged, pre-oxegenated, self-renewing wood fuels.
JohnW for your insulation testing a free good source is inside self-cleaning ovens. Check out an appliance repair/recycler. Moderately high temp oven insulation is just dumpster trash for them. Plenty good for outside wrapping - hearth core wrap probably not. Need to use SS, Inconel or ceramics to play those kind of games anyhow.
I literally tripped over one of your ex-military gen-sets moving durable medical equipment for my nursie wife. No one knew anything about it. Sigh - bolt on driven impulse magneto. Bugger to advance these more than 5-8 degrees. FYI at 3600 RPM loaded you need at least 15+ degrees advance over base setting. So much you have to be able to readily retard back for cranking over starting, or: Ouch!, Kickback breakage or bleeding of the starter or starterman.
Regards
Steve Unruh
well its insulated … and i put it back together today… ill need to do a little more tin work to keep water out but for now its fine… i can’t wait to fire it up and see how she goes! …
Hello John Wells, Just make sure you build out of solid stuff !! Here is what I found on my trailer last night. I repaired it best as I could and fired it off with Anthony Meschke today when he dropped by on his way back home. The big air leak is now gone of course. I made a video with the leak the other day but am too pooped to do another one tonight. I built it light to hang on the back of a regular car along with a really light gasifier. I attached a picture of my now deceased 95 olds so you could see that layout. Hope to see you in Indiana … Mike LaRosa
I have a question for the Group… what about timing? i set mine at 15 btdc. but I’m wondering if 10 or 12 or even 9 would be better ? where do you all find your engine runs best? I’m noticing the factory setting for gasoline is 10 btdc so should i advance more ? say 18? short of setting it at every degree and trying it out . i thought i would ask all of you.
should i adjust the timing while I’m driving? is it like the air fuel mix? will the optimum setting change depending on gas quality etc ?
thanks
Hello John,
Yes you can set your timing high.
I am tied up today but let me check my timing tomorrow and I will get back with you.
BBB
Hello John,
My dodge trucks set their own timing.
On the v-10 I have to get under the truck to see the crank shaft and check the timing. If I remember correctly the v-10 likes to run wood gas at 60 degrees advanced but hold off until I can check it again.
When you’re as old as I am you forget what you had for breakfast.
We are in the middle of some strong rain storms and I have got to make about a 50 mile trip for welding supplies but just too wet to get under the truck but I will as soon as I find a dry spot.
BBB
John, I rotate my V6 around a peg to get the best results and can only do this after the gas quality comes up. The setting varies. The car does not have a crank sensor so relies on the signal from the distributor to set it’s timing. It doesn’t have a clue so proceeds as if nothing is going on. I have a lever in the cab that works a rod to a lever on the distributor base.
http://www.intergate.com/~mlarosa/images/woodgas/timing-control.jpg
http://www.intergate.com/~mlarosa/images/woodgas/93-distributor-lever.jpg
are the pics of it.
Mike
Hello John,
I checked the timing again this morning and it looks like at lower rpms the advance is 30-40 degrees BTDC. With high rpms it will run on up to 60-70 degrees BTDC.
BBB
Yep this matches what all of the loose ignition distributor turing fellows are saying; having to turn it a full plug wire pin advanced. Be 45 degrees on a V-8; 60 degrees on a V-6. You cannot crank start on much more than ~15 degrees advanced without kick back false starting damage. Very nice eh Mr. Wayne not having to do this ignition distributor turning anymore but let the electronic spark control set it up.
Regards
Steve Unruh
ok thanks every one! so if i understand you all. I should set timing for 10 -12 btdc get the motor running then after it warms up for a few minutes and I’m producing good gas … (can i tell by the temp of the outgoing gas weather it good gas or not?) then i retard the distributor even more about one peg or (plug wire) on the distributor cap. i can t leave it in this position because the engine would never start up with the timing hear… due to pre ignition. and i need the spark to fire early because the gas itself takes longer to burn … do i have that right? the engine has been sluggish is this because i was running a set timing of 14-15 btdc and needed to move it more once the engine was running? can i expect a significant power increase? ( of course you know by the time your reading this i will have already tried it ! lol )
so Wayne my next one should be dodge eh? no messing with the distributor ! lol…someday a nice little dakota and me will cross paths 
and thanks so much for looking for me i really appreciate it !
John
