Robert, thank you for being so patient and helpful. That video will come in handy.
But I’m still confused; in my mind, since the entire distributor is rotated, how is there a change in regard to the location of the rotor with respect to the distributor cap when the spark is triggered? Is there some sort of computer involvement creating a delay between the time when the contacts open and the time the spark happens?
In the interests of transparency, I’ll note that I’ve been looking for a '92-'95 Dodge Dakota for months, and this is the first one I’ve come across that I could afford, so I’m finding myself emotionally drawn to wanting to make this one work. I’m even wanting this to work so much that I’m thinking in terms of wondering if an Arduino-based timing controller would solve the problem. That’s the solution we used when we converted a Lister to run on woodgas;
As for the lack of power on wood gas, we have a 3/4 ton we use for serious work and hauling things. Our primary use for this truck will be to go to universities and colleges here in the Pacific Northwest to talk about our work on the village scale conversion of woody biomass into energy. It would be so much nicer to show up in a truck powered by woodgas than in something that’s gasoline fueled.
You all have been kind, and it’s much appreciated, but if I’m fooling myself about this truck, please don’t be shy about saying so.
Ok, the trigger mechanism (forgot what it’s called) turns with the engine. it is always fixed in relation to the engine. So when #1 cylinder is at top dead center, trigger and rotor are always in the same position. Now the trigger coil, and of course distributer cap contacts all turn with the distributer shell. So when the distributer is turned the relationship between trigger and trigger coil is changed. same with rotor and distributer cap contacts. Yes, the computer does control it, but we are fooling the computer by jumping a peg as described by wayne.
Now, Please don’t take this wrong, but you seem to have very limited knowledge of engines and such. I think it would be to your advantage to wait for a v-8 dakota. then you can pretty much just follow the step by step instructions and come up with a good running unit.
The v-6 Dakotas before electronic ignitions will work ( 1987 and earlier ). The dist can be advanced . I put 20 -30 thousand miles on a 87 dakota. Weak runing on woodgas and has a carb that I try to avoid but they will run .
About 10 years ago I bought a 92 V-6 dakota to gasifie and it didn’t work and is still setting hear in the yard . ( cost of experimenting ) When advancing the time it shut down just like cutting the switch off.
Mr. Patrick; Let me confuse you a little or encourage you, how ever you want to look at it. I on the other hand do not have a WK woodgas truck, it is more of my own design, but that doesn’t matter. We are talking about igniting the gas in the engine. I run a full size 1/2 T Chev with a 4.3 L V6. Too much weight and a very poor differential ratio. I don’t race the little Dodges, but I might with a S10 chassis, but I did drive from norther Wi. down to Argos through 7 PM traffic in Chicago. ( What a thrill with all the semis heading out of town) So don’t get too upset if a V6 is all you can afford. As far as timing is concerned, I do have a cable to advance the distributer and it helps the engine performance. I just don’t advance it a full peg like the V8s do. Never checked to see how much advance I have but if I don’t move the distorter back before trying to start on gas the cylinder fires against the piston. I’m not familiar with Dodges so I don’t know why Mr. Wayne’s V6 stalled when moving the distributer other than I am sure he could not move it a full peg like he does with the V8TomC
Also a correction from the above post . It was a 93 V-6 dakota that I tried advancing the time .
Tuning the dist has no effect on the timing until it is turned far enough and it will cross fire . On a V-8 this cross fire equals 45 degrees . On a V-6 this cross fire equals 60 degrees and will kill the motor .
Very easy to test on the vehicle you intend to buy . Loosen the dist and start rotating , nothing will happen until it kills the motor . The 87 dakota and earlier will start advancing gradually as you rotate the dist.
In answer to finding a Dakota suitable to your purposes, here is another suggestion that you might want to consider. If you have the wrenching ability, an engine swap shouldn’t be too far out of reach. I would start here. www.car-part.com
This can be very time consuming and involved and isn’t for everyone. But if you’ve got a really nice v6 Dakota and are able to put a v8 in it…
I wouldn’t suggest doing this if you don’t have a decent place to work and enough equipment. Jack stands, cherry pickers, etc.
Again, I don’t know your experience or tools available. Just a suggestion.
We’re located 20 miles north of The Dalles, OR, (i.e. on the north side of the Columbia in "extreme northern Oregon . Our website is www.windward.org .
I’m touched by the great information and suggestions you all have offered; you’ve made me feel quite welcome.
At this end, we’re looking into the spark timing issues, and we think we’ve got a handle on that part of the challenge. Fortunately, we can determine whether the plan we have will work before doing any notable modifications to the truck. Also, we’ve been doing stationary gasification for seven years now, and if we can address the timing issue, we have the capacity to supply engine quality wood gas to the engine and test things out before taking a torch to anything. If we can get it to run on woodgas in Park, I’d take that as a green light to proceed.
As this point, what I’m concerned about is whether there are any other “unknown unkowns” involved in going with the V6 instead of the V8? I’m hoping for confirmation that the rest of the work would be “by the book.”
Walt
I think I stumbled across your website some years ago. But change of computers caused me to lose the site. Please correct me if I am mistaken they were working on a solar concentration device to heat water. A lady had a GEK gasifier and you(?) Had just bought a small truck to try and run on wood.
Checked out your link and enjoyed it
Thanks
P.S. took me 3 yrs to find my V8 Dakota
Yes, that’s us. We welded up the fourth GEK ever built, and have continued to upgrade as each new version came out. Our goal is to create a village-scale energy system based on the sustainable harvest of woody biomass, and when it became clear to us that the All Power Lab folk had that part of the equation well under way, we went on to focus on the compression and conversion of wood gas into a liquid fuel. Now that I’ve “retired,” I’m taking the time to go back and fill in some of the work that got left undone–in this case, having a wood-burning truck to haul our gear to demonstrations so that we can raise awareness of the utility of woody biomass.
It’s been done on an industrial scale for decades; the challenge is to reduce the process and equipment to something that can be done on the scale of a village. A key part to remember is that only about a third of the energy in wood can be directly converted to energy products; the other two thirds comes off as sensible heat just like the heat in engine exhaust. Key to making the process sustainable is being able to capture that “waste” heat and use it. If you’re interested in descriptions of the chemistry involved, here’s a link to our technical website.
I will add both my cents to this discussion.
Wayne has stated above the reasons why the v6 dakotas won’t work with “advancing” the distributor. The distributor on the dodge magnum motors (92 onward) does not affect timing but electrical pulse of the injectors via the camshaft sensor (located in the distributor). The dodge Manuel specifically states timing cannot be changed by manipulation of the distributor. I think it was by blind luck alone that when the distributor turned by one peg it advances the timing 45 degrees which just so happens to help produce more power from woodgas. There is no graduation (only binary) of timing advance with turning the distributor i.e 0 degrees or 45 degrees with v8 or 60 degree with v6 ( which has shown to be incompatible with running an engine).
On the chevy/GMC trucks that Tom C talks about the rotation of the distributor directly affects the spark advance of the SBC engine. There is a bypass wire that can be unhooked and the distributor turned to set the extent of advance or retard the engine is to run (on 88- 95 chevys). This Is true up to 95 chevys (and maybe beyond) however I have no experience with post 95 chevys, hence the difference in opinion in v6 runnabliity comparing the dodges to the chevy’s
I would caution comparing the 4.3l v6 SBC to the V6 dodge magnum. Different can of worms. Personally If I was purchasing a truck to specifically gasify I’d wait for the right vehicle. Nothing worse then putting all that work in and then having buyers remorse… I converted a v6 4.3l sbc as my first project because it was what I had on hand. Wouldn’t be bothered again, v6 chevy’s will run but like Tom said earlier they won’t be winning any races.
“Of course one horse will run faster that all others. But which one on that particular day? Differences are critical to know.” Lazarus Long
Why folks always falling into failures-soup thinking that if they conquer one particular OBDII application they will then have the keys to all OBDII applications. Ain’t the way it works at all.
Knowing, mastering English gives you just a slight leg up on a few other languages. NO help - in fact an impediment, on others.
ITS all good knollege on the v6 dodges, They can be used,but they loose the timeing advantage , may be a little short on power for useing over drive or pulling trailers,unless you want too add a little gasoline hybriding,thats what i plan on doing with my 4 cylinder s10 for faster take off speed,then when i am out of wood i still get 24 MPG, VS 12 with carberated 4.3 v6 chevy that i could put in my s10.
Mr. Patrick; I would like to just go back and review your situation. You have built and are familiar with the GEK. Ok Now you want " a wood- burning truck to haul our gear to demonstrations". If you follow the DOW to a tee, you will have a very good product. But sometimes we do what we have to do. I think a Dakota with a V6 will give you a usable highway vehicle. I say this because my slightly larger V6 is pulling a full size truck and the Dakota is a much lighter vehicle. Most all of the DOW guys have hooked up an electric variable valve so that when they come to a hill or want to pass they feed in a little petro. The V6 could do the same things only maybe a little more often, depending on the drivers preference. For me, yes I can and do advanced my timing, but it does not give me any measurable difference in speed — just smoothes out the idle. You have experience with the GEK. I haven’t followed them for years but I do seem to remember them running a GM V6 in one of their products. You may want to consider a GEK for your build. There is nothing wrong with combining some GEK designs with DOW designs. GEK gasifier and cyclone with a DOW heat exchanger cooling rails and filter.
I am not trying to under cut the DOW design, it is probably the best. I’m just saying we have options depending on our situation and asperationsTomC
. Our website is 