Hi Bill
I second Dave, you should have about a 1:1 air : gas ratio ,either there is leaks in you plumbing or drawing to much air through your gasifier and you are getting unburnt oxygen getting through the char bed.
Very nice setup though, just a little tweaking and fine tuning .
Good luck
Patrick
Thanks Dave. Must be a considerable size leak if the valve has to be closed all the way?
Bill
Hi Bill,
When running your engine you should have some vacuum on the ānozzleā side of the incoming air.
This to ensure that you are gasifying and not just producing bunrnable fumes. (Excess of air leads to more co2)
Measuring point: outlet gasifier. If testing with a suction fan prior to lightning the gasifier gives around 100milibar vacuum, then mostly you are in the green zone.
Running the gasifier will show you that this value decreases due to the generation of gas from the wood.
The tricky part is the water in the wood. Where as the pressure drops slowly with the temperature of the gas, the expansion of water vapor is huge (1 liter water expands to 6000 liters of steam at 7-800 degree celcius)
The steam wil replace your needed oxygen from the air and your system will graduatly shut down.
Adjusting the mixturevalve compensates the air for re ignition the glowing reaction.
So my blunt statement would be; the closer you can run the gasifier to the 100 milibars, the richer, more powerfull your gas isā¦
I hope some people will forgive me for the simplicity in my explanation
Good morning Mr. Bill ,
The amount of mixing air mixed in to have a good run is usually a direct relation to the ease or difficulty of pulling the air and gas through the char bed . The more coarse the char bed the more open the air mix will be . The more dense the char the more closed the valve will be . If the system is sealed well with few air leaks the more open the air mix . If air is leaking into the system the more closed the valve will be.
A good safety check is being able to kill the motor by closing the mixing air. This means the gas through the system has to have some oxygen added to burn /explode.
If you can run the motor adding no air this means the gas is in an explosive mix prior to the mixing valve .
Good Morning Guys
Excellant advices ALL.
Will wonders never cease I got a good dial up line this early Sunday morning and was actually able to view some of the shorter small engine running gasification vidoes that have been put up in the last year or so.
Yours first BillS.
Very, very good you are continuing to get engine running times out of your current set-up. You WILL ONLY LEARN BY ENGINE SYSTEM LOADED RUNNING. Period.
Make the recommended changes in the hearth core lower end by adding an active capable grate is going to do wonders to your ability to actively extend your run times using Your HIGH Ashes making oak wood chips. You are flow choking off down there man!
Please confirm that on your hearth pictured top end a 18 seconds that the upside down big pipe cast iron? bushing is just a weight holding down a sealing off cap?? IF you are opened up there with your shallow filled chip bed you will be drawing too much air down through your chip bed and be running as a FEMA tar making machine. Air leakage through here along with powerful tar gas made would expain your easy engine starting along with your lack of need for any at the engine secondary air flow.
Now having seen some of the current put up youtubes let me go sideways a bit and PLEASE DO realize this is NOT said about any responding here and thier put up videos.
The longer youtube has been in existence the worse the quality of content. It is now up to 95% of woodgas engine running content as pure bull crap worthless. Worse. Much as outright grandstanding, out and out deceptive, and frat party high fiving Animal House quality.
Hereās taste of the 5% that has real relevence and a fellow can gasifier OPERATOR LEARN from.
ALL of Steven Amptramps stuff:
http://www.youtube/user/CNCmachiningisfun/videos
Start at his āFrom Flare to 13 hp engine . . .ā and work forward to the newest posted up. Then go back to that now 7 month old video and work time posted backwards a couple of years back to his very first woodgas experences.
Focus on the man. His words. His speculations. His conclusions. His learning curve.
THIS guy has been able to loaded engine run with his wood fuel from his first FEMA lash-up. To is then a side jet kinnda sorta āImbertizedā modification of that; to now an older 4 generations back commercially made VGW āWOODYā model carbon steel unit.
It aināt ever so much the actual machine - it IS THE HUMAN OPERATOR!!!
You can also see real well these very same operator leanring conclusions following Dan Coxes youtube videos oldest to newest. I think these are at:
http://www.youtube/feed/UCBg4kZhdQJ4QebBQ7osadMg/u
You used to be able to see this same learning experience curve in Ben Petersonās sponsored put up videos. There was this one light bulb point with him hearth core temperature probing you can see that āEurekaā moment that it IS all based about the core hearth temperatures!
Phil Covey had some good DYI woodgas engine videos up unfortunatly I think he no longer posts up supports. Really, really need to look at his through his own āon handsā system traveling down temperture conclusions.
HE WAS USING home site cut hardwoods fuels BillS.
Dan Cox says he is also using oak wood for fuel also.
On your system runs at starting systems warming up you want to be that fellow can be seen in most all of the APL/GEK video get togetherās hunkered down, up real close, hands on hand feeling the system areas temperatures rises. THAT guy IS effective operator programming himself. (Ha! Must be a brother from another mother to me! )The stand around hands in pocket warmers aināt learning much if anything except smells.
Regards
Steve Unruh
Thank you everyone for your input! The more I can understand whatās going on here and not just go through the motions, is very important to me. I have āthe bugā. It bodes well with my addictive and creative personality. My only drawback may be that I learn a little different than some.
Steve, yes, that chunk of metal is merely to seal off the top of the unit as much as I can Hahaha. I started this project FEMA inspired. Iām a āget your feet wetā type of person. So rather than scrapping what I started with every time I learn some other valuable information, I work with what I have. As Iām learning here, my modifications are getting stored in my brain. I will make those modifications to this unit before I invest in a system I am comfortable with building. To understand the foundation of making wood gas, I think is important. Also Iām just learning how to weld as well. So this whole project is good practice.
A funny truth for you all- Three months ago, to see if this woodgas thing was real, I acquired a 5 gallon tin can, 3" vent pipe, a vent cap I cut a hole in for a restrictor, and a hose for the out going gas. I was able able to get wood gas with wood shavings from my chicken bedding. I was scared and excited at the same time. Since then, I spent hours on the internet everyday to learn more. Like you said Steve, a guy can easily get misdirected and misinformed. But, my searching led to this site and I am very grateful.
I am also aware of these youtube guys. But I will watch the videos again as you suggest.
Thanks again all for your input. I will absorb as I am capable.
Steve U,
Just curious if you noticed my drawing of the cyclone in the email I sent you?
Take care,
Bill Schiller
Hi Bill S.; Welcome to drive on wood. You came to the right place to learn about wood and charcoal gasification. Watch out for the videoās that are heavily edited and make everything look easy. Everything is not easy but requires hard work,detail,time,skill,thought and willing ness to do it right. Look for information that is sincere and honest. I canāt stand cover-up artist that just want to look good rather than give honest info and video. Also, Thank You Steve U. for the vote of confidence and your very valuable recomendation.Means alot to me. Dan
Hi Dan,
How do I find you videos?
Bill Schiller
Hi Bill; You may already be subscribed to me as your name sounds familer.
Type in docdcox on youtube to access my channel or http://www.youtube.com/feed/UCBg4kZhd0J4QebBQ7osadMg/u
I no longer take comments on youtube due to a few idiots. Hope this helps. Dan
I hear you on the comments Dan, I still do, but that is the primary reason why I donāt say anything in my vids usuallyā¦ Keep up the good work brotherā¦ i always look forward to a new video of yours, and I have shared your videoās many times to make a point with someoneā¦
.
Yeah Danny I have been subscribed to your youtube page.
Steve U, No worries on drying the wood chips. I only dry on the stove when Iām in the garage. I know they completely dry when I can put the lid on the SS pot for a few minutes and no moisture shows up on the lid. I am constantly mixing them so they donāt burn. This is how I know the moisture in my gas isnāt coming from wet wood. So now I know the moisture has everything to do with my hearth. I just need to figure out what changes I need to make to properly burn wood chips. I feel if I can do this, I can scrap this setup and design something I can move forward with.
Honestly Steve, I donāt know what to load this machine down with right now. I have all kinds of ideas I can implement with this size engine. I plan to get a hydraulic motor to serve as a multipurpose power supply. I would be able to power a log splitter, generator head, wood chunker, etc. Does it sound like my reduction is already too short? If I get a load on the machine, would it be too short again? I picked this engine because it was the only engine at work that didnāt serve a purpose anymore. It used to have a pressure washer pump on it. Maybe I will tear apart a good machine.
Iām also curious if the 6" sleeve may be protecting the fire tube from melting by bringing the cold air alongside the 4" tube? The 4" pipe is only about a 1/16" thick and now knowing the temps inside the fire tube, I would think that it would have already melted. The fire tube is also cold rolled steel. Iām not sure if that too makes a difference.
Sorry, I completely misunderstood what you were trying to tell me on cyclones from our previous correspondence. I will do more research.
Time for some sleep
Take care,
Bill Schiller
.
So I have concluded I need to discard the burner part of my gasifier. I may keep the 16 gallon oil can to house the hearth unless someone can offer up a better option. I would like to use another 16 gallon oil tank on top for a hopper. If Iām understanding this chart correctly, here are the dimensions I came up with. I am basing it on 24.4 CFM from a 12hp Honda.
Steve U has expressed how heās not a fan of cyclones. With my cyclones I have been unsuccessful with getting rid of soot. The best I came up with was discolored water. So I am open to changing what I have. So I also included a picture of my proposed cyclone substitute. I am open to critiquing. Iām a fan of learning. This may already be thought of and implemented, so forgive me if thatās the case.
Take care,
Bill Schiller
Hi BillS.
I would not call this a cyclone because you are not trying to spin fling the woodgas clean but slow ot down and upward perculate it through SS pads with condnesate wash down cleaning. So a condensate wash down filtering tower.
To recap you are wanting to use your chipped OAK fuel wood to power your 12 hp Honda single cylinder engine as an all purpose shaft power maker for hydraulics, ect.
And you have access to all different kinds of various size pipe.
Let the suggestions begin from here. I plan to be very quiet here-on, on this and am hoping you guys with thechipped wood fuels experineces will help him out on this.
Regards
Steve Unruh
Hi Bill; Looks like you are on your way into your journey. Sorry I couldnāt help with the velocity side of the chart. Thats why I directed you back here. I started with restriction size and nozzle size for a particular engine size and did not use the velocity chart at all. I have no experience with chips but as Steve sez, there are several here to help you. Just a note from some of what I have read, I think a 2" restriction and smaller nozzles would be better suited to an engine of the size you want to run. If I am wrong, I can and will be corrected. Good luck. Dan
this is what i started off withā¦ and iām with Dan i think 2" is where iād start. how did you come up with your cfm required for your engine?
Iāve always used gas needed in L/s = displacement in L x rpm (in 1000ās) x 3. I didnāt really always use that i use to use the long Dutch John formula until Max Gasman showed me the short versionā¦ from that you can calculate restriction if you are goin with a standard imbertā¦
Wayne was talking about his new 94 Dodge and how he uses a removable restrictor plate to find the appropiate diameter needed. Any reason why we canāt do that with stationary units?
Steve, just so you understand, Iām not set on wood chips, itās just what I had. Actually I even purchased some chips and chunks for smoking from Walmart just to test with some dry wood. Because I only started with a 4" tube, the chunks got hung up and Iāve used chips and chips with chunks to see the difference. I believe with a bigger diameter hopper, I would be able to utilize wood chunks. I am here to learn and am too new be stuck in my ways. Hahaha
Truthfully Steve, Iād rather you not be quiet. I value your input. Since I have joined DOW, I have a much better understanding about gasification. The pieces of the puzzle are coming together. Itās just a much bigger puzzle than I thought it was. That factor in itself, makes it more exciting. Knowing I can measure temperatures and vacuums in various locations to optimize my unit gives me more encouragement. I already proved to myself I can make an ICE run off of wood gas. I want more. You do provide that for all of us.
Bill Schiller
Hi Bill,
I retraced the lines on the cyclone pic and added āmy numbersā to reference to formula numbers. I used area as a standard comparison number. Youāll see some differences, but my actual numbers work well for collecting particulate matter with no moisture at all. My (B sub c) is Bc x Hc, a rectangular port. I think the larger (D sub e) helps promote particle separation (fall out). I used a 7.75" diam fire extinguisher shell and a cone I bent. I donāt have dimensions for a straight sided cyclone yet as I feel Iāve got a good one now. However, if I were to ātryā a straight sided cyclone, I would probably make it 2L long.
Two important notes, 1. the bottom of the gas outlet tube is only an inch or so below the bottom of the inlet port and 2. their note at the bottom says ādust outā. I think Dan C, has some basically straight sided cyclones that seem to work OK also, and his system works like a charm.
Are you attempting to build an imbert design or a WK design. There are a couple of guys trying to build a scaled down WK to run small engines. I hope theyāre successful, but if I was just starting out, Iād build an imbert and wait for more feed back on the WK retros for small engines. Your time wonāt be wasted, this is all a good learning experience.
As far as a drop in restriction goes, I would not recommend it. I had one (only spot welded) and learned about internal leaks from it. Dan C had the similar experience. Dan totally welded his in and got higher temps right off. Mine is gasketed and bolted in.
Go to the homepage and scroll down to Members in the left column, click on it and type in Richard āPepeā Lemieux. Scroll down through the Richards to my name and click on it. Then click on the photos heading and go to page 5 for my bolt in hearth pics.
Hope this helps.
Pepe
