Hello… personally need to study more on carbon and the usage for an fuel production. Is correct that you need high temperatures for cracking molecules like water and carbon dioxide but you need also an catalyst. However reach and maintain 1200-1500 C degrees isn’t simple because we are talking of energy IN and energy OUT. The right way , for me, is start test test and test and probably, to the end, using just coal we found an different fuel from the normal syngas that have lower energy content. Regards Marco
Dear Marco, Ragazzo…
Carbon as it is, is a fuel. To convert it into gas you need energy… or in case of gasification, heat.
Any conversion technique brings his advantages and disadvantages and as in every conversion the lost off energy efficiency in a certain level.
The higher carbon content into the charcoal = the higher potential energy and less volatiles ( not 100% correct since certain volatiles can be converted into energy as well )
There are 2 basic ways to gasify… apply direct heat or indirect ( getting on thin ice here i am sure )
Direct heat is as we heat up the solid mass (charcoal) with the heat from combusted gasses.
This gas obtained from the charcoal is then mixed with the content from the combustion gasses.ergo less energy content per cf
Indirect heated charcoal gives only gas without any mixture from diluting combustion gasses, ergo more energy content per cf
Reaching and maintaining the high temperature is rather easy, only restriction is the melting point of the ashes and the used materials.
Tubes and parts from refractory ciment ( high aluminia ) can withstand temp up to 1700°C
Parts of ceramic even higher.
Search google for slagging and non slagging gasification, will give you a better understanding about that.
So, high temperatures in the gasifier, using water as supply of oxygen and the exhaust from the engine as reducing external air gives you the exercise to find the correct balance to produce a clean rich powerfull gas.
This balance act is more difficult to maintain for automotive equipment, dough it helps the general understanding for solving some issues.
You are correct about the use of a catalyst, in this case it is the glowing char that burns the oxygen and leaves the carbon and hydrogen.
in many other processes, catalysts are used to avoid the merging from the molecules again.
In france i helped design a waste to energy gasification plant, in second stage they use plasma arch to clean up the gas and to enrich the heating value.
i did learn a lot of that process.
The best way to start testing is heating up a quantity of any combustible material and looks how it behave.
For example i use bamboo, in 200 L drums, externaly heated up, and have an exact knowledge how good the charcoal is.
open fire reaches up to 850°C and when the drums not produces gas anymore, the charcoal is ready.
Heating up the charcoal behind 850°C wil produce a very clean gas with blue flames only.
Currently i am teaching the local farmers the benefits. i hope they will copy my system 
i will try to upload some pictures soon.
Just man please…
You can use biomass for charcoal creation or coal directly… the important is the reaction inside the process. If you use just air as catalyst agent you have an bigger amount of nitrogen as inert gas, using water you need to transform first in steam or better supersteam and after reaction appear with red hot carbon.
In all cases no more ways for obtain an fuel gas from carbon or maybe you have found an different mode?? Actually I can’t answer if you don’t post your drawings. Regards Marco
Hi Marco,
lets have the subject called Charcoal gasification.
Air is never the catalyst agent but the oxidizing agent ( the oxygen in the air )
Nitrogen is indeed an inert gas, to be replaced by Hydrogen or methane.
The red hot carbon will act as catalyzer.
The oxygen in the air will make the carbon red hot ( to explain it simple)
Correct injected water/steam will feed oxygen and burn down the charcoal.
Since the carbon takes the oxygen, also from the carbon dioxide, little hydrogen will be burned away and little Carbon dioxide will be in the gas
To compare:
Woodgas ( wikipedia ) and Citygas (wikipedia)
further:
to run engines on the gas it is to prefer to increase the amount off carbon monoxide, it has almost double the energy value per cf compared with hydrogen.
to transform water into super heated steam, water can be injected in the jacket from the reactor, it just need to be well balanced.
same for the carbon dioxide, even in the old systems it was used for regulating the temperature off the red hot zone, by regulating the amount of oxygen in the air-mixture.
so to repeat:
more temperature and intake air substitution with water and carbon dioxide will reduce the amount off nitrogen produced in the gas.
if the engine runs lean ( preferably) the there will be more oxygen in the exhaust fumes ( also more nitrogen i believe )
its all about adjusting the settings, but first you have to understand the process off gasification…
Remark about your statement from methanol; methanol has half the energy as gasoline, same goes for ethanol.
Search in wikipedia for heating value’s and energy content from gasses, fuels.
Hi again Marco,
following links to wikipedia for you:
@ Dauci,
did you ever experimented with having on the air inlet from the mixture on the engine a carburator with methanol ? to ad a little boost when needed
so an third inlet
or for the majority off us, moonshining - ethanol, using the heat off the gasifier to distill :-p
and inject the ethanol into the hot gas before it enters the engine 
Unfortunately I know all you are talking … you mistake one thing … if is more simple split water into hydrogen at today our car run without petrol. You need to consider the real amount of calorific energy that syngas contain. You need to spent more energy for transform water into hydrogen and the same is CO2… energy don’t born from nothing…
Nothing can’t be invented if you use standard gasification methods… charcoal help you as syngas purifications… more heat more gas purified but if you want split the hydrogen and oxygen from water you need to use an catalyst like nickel with supersteam to high temperature. Air can be used just for plasma creation but you need to use electrical energy for obtain that… or you have found another method for plasma creation???
Sorry to say Marco,
but i was just pointing out to the things what already exist… and tried to explain that to you…
to enrich with hydrogen: use water
to enrich with carbon monoxide: use carbon dioxide
to decrease nitrogen: use pure oxygen.
The whole thing is easy when you only use charcoal or coal.
It gets more complicated if you use wood or other green waste.
Charcoal or coal will always produce a good, steady quality of gas.
Woodgas is far more difficult unless you are full aware what to do and how to do it.
Back to the catalyst. Hot char is the catalyst in this case, it burns oxygen with the carbon from the charcoal. you can reach temps until all metal is molten… even until the ashes iare turned into liquid…
I agree if you want to split… Hydrogen - Oxygen, you need a way to prevent the remelting of the molecules, meaning a catalistic membrane, passing one kind off molecules, retaining the others. so many ways, so many solutions, but off topic.
In gasification is oxygen the oxidizing agent for the process, its obtained either from air, water, carbon dioxide and or even from pure oxygen.
My guess is that you did not read the explanations on wikipedia yet. following the links on those pages will guide you to a knowledge base far beyond.
Besides all other possibility’s, why should we use pasta in the gasification process if the cost is far more high then the benefits ?
I do understand the point off view where the starter off this topic is pointing to and it might even be a excellent idea. lets wait and see whats happening.
As i understand from your postings, you are looking for a way to obtain methane ? Then why not search for a way to obtain methane from composting processes ?
Hi Marco,
all about energy efficiency…
hotter means more carbon burning = more energy
so just find the right balance , how much energy to spent, to obtain what energy ? that is the question
you can use the heat from the cooler, from the exhaust, and so on…
wow. excellent thread. so much to learn, so little time.
i stumbled across this site that sells hydrogen generators for vehicles to increase performance:
http://www.globalenergydevices.com/
(splits water into hydrogen and oxygen and then adds to the air/fuel mixture in the engine)
and i wonder if such a device would be a worthwhile component to add to gasifiers, or does the above suggestion of making super-heated steam (to be broken down into hydrogen/oxygen) in the reactor jacket make more sense?
Hi Robin,
Look up for “cracking water” in google. It is always a good idea to introduce hydrogen and oxygen instead of the nitrogen of the air.
Dough, increasing the richness of your gas is equal to adjust your mixture going into your engine.
It al depends the total concept. The reason from Dauci is a good thing to work on. ( avoiding cool down or power gap after idling ) i think his idea will give a good contribution to solve that flaw.
Following link brings you to a book about the making of producer gas, inclusive the properties, how you can change them and the outcomes from changing these properties.
Its a large book, but worth studying it.
Regards
Koen
Hi All
In my non-scientific understanding from what I watch happening in real time for thouands of hours annually this is what I see:
To split the actual water molocule takes an inordinate amount of energy. No matter how you apply this energy you will not be able to get back out by oxdizing the hydrogen to anything; or the oxegen to anything; let alone each other any more than you had to put into the splitting of them apart. Less enrgy out with inevitable losses.
So to make this actually work the two routes taken are to create more intense “cheaper” energy IN - plasma, ect.
Or, reduce the actual energy needed - such as water doping with trace chemicals ( always leaving undesirables left to deal with).
Hot glowing woodchar in a woodgasifier does these both routes at the same time. A relitivly cheap source for the heat and char as is simultaneously actively made in a raw wood fueled gasifier. The wood volatiles buring along with some char sancrificed to temperture boost are the heat energy imputs and then this HOT char and water vapor as HOT superheated steam gets close coupled Hot delivered to the same place at the same time. The heat energy having been made and now Hot char and Superheated steam delivered is readily, effectively used and conserved into the chemical reactions of making H2, CO and CH4 fuel capable gases.
I watch this happening for at least 3000 hours annually in my advanced wood stoves. My decreased wood consumption and decreased actual air in along with greatly reduced emissions show that H2O reducing IS taking place. And the results of this being combustion used.
Doing this at standard pressures and sub-metal and ash melting tempertures show just how powerful the oxegen stripping PULL of hot carbon really IS. The water-gas shift in the presence of hot char. The CO2 to CO shifting in the pesence of hot char. You do then get CO instead of pure O, O2 or O3. With raw wood fuel even some CH4. And the char sacrifices up free carbons to be bound up and is consumed eventually doing this. The mineral ash skeleton of the wood cells left behind.
The energy conserved and passed in the fuel gasses on can Only ever be the value of the heat enrgy that was present in the reaction area.
Non-technical summed: splitting water to get pure H2 and O2 is like trying to separate two maddly in love teenagers.
Take one of them and give them something much more attactive takes much less energy and effort. Just be sure you will be happy with the results of the boy now mad for engines, motorbikes and cars - your CO and CH4. And the girl left alone still looking willing to sneak away - your slippery H2. Both are still very volatile, active and combustable.
Ha! Ha! I just think some of you are miffed this can be done without High Tech, rare trace metals and materials and no electricity.
“So simple even a caveman can do it!” (Marco, Koen, this has been an American insurance companies selling line for the last few years.)
Regards
Steve Unruh
Steve,
The article in the book also describe the benefits of water and the effects.
Worth reading in depth, they didn’t use automation those days and where still able to understand what happens in a gasifier and why.
It also explains the numbers you’ll find in the field tests from Wayne’s.
Its all “old hat” but so beautiful to read it and to understand it…
Hello Robin .
I sure wish it would work !! There is one commodity I have here that is MUCH greater than wood and that is water, with a small river running through the farm and other branches . This year water standing in the fields and farm work several months behind because of it.
Several years back there was a lot of folks around here that tried the HHO system and when I ask them about it now they just smile and shake their heads .
My advice would be not to waste time with the Hydrogen generators , I did extensive testing with those for almost 2 yrs and as far as doing it on vehicles , well to put it short ,is just a waste of time …The best use for those is a torch …I have a 72 6"x6" plate hho cell that is 75% efficient with taking electricity and converting to hydrogen / oxygen and its great for torch stuff (it will melt anything) but for cars its a waste of time …I did test on my nissan altima , a ford explorer and a nissain pickup …Dont waste your time , unless you can produce the hho with solar means you lose efficiency and gain nothing and for cars with a 4 cylinder engine you have to produce 10-15 liters per min to even make a difference and that takes around 1200 - 1600 watts to get that much …But anyway you get my point …
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For HHO creation you need enough electrical energy and I remember you that is an burnable mixture of hydrogen /oxygen, in contact with red carbon burn and return steam immediately … no sense because reduction stage trasform water steam into carbon monoxide and hydrogen. …the way is transform water into supersteam using the heat released from the reactor…
In gasification hydrogen is wanted to make the mixture more rich and having an higher flame velocity
the oxygen is used as an oxidizer for transforming the carbon into carbon monoxide instead of the oxygen from the air, thus replacing the amount of nitrogen with usefull gasses.you can read this article about it http://archive.org/details/producergassketc00sextrich
Sure but unfortunately the brown gas cells produce not only hydrogen but also oxygen in stechiometric amount and with only 0.07mJ you ignite the mixture. When brown gas or HHO is sended inside red charcoal you obtain just steam and sorry but do not have sense use first electrical energy for transform water into burnable gas and after obtain as result steam.
Marco, sorry but before you write this, you should study the facts and read the relevant sections.
Temperature splits the water/steam into Hydrogen and oxygen
The process in wich you convert uses energy obtained from carbon burned with the oxygen.
The temperature needed is between 1000°C and 1200°C
( proces for making water gas )
The amount of water has to be well adjusted ( not to much water,) or the process will cease and the vapour will cool the charcoal to much and pass into the gas stream.
Any energy added to make “super steam” will have its benefits, but also its costs.
Therefore the primary action should be to prevent heat losses near the core and downstream and use that heat to convert water in “super steam”
The hotter the steam is, the lesser air you need for the process and the lesser Nitrogen you’ll have in the producer gas.
All the efforts should be considered well, because the engine on the downstream side of the gasifier only needs a correct mixture.
A well designed gasifier would only need modest adjustments and an stabile temperature and steady gas flow behavior to produce excellent results
The device that Dauci has in mind will help to control the temperature drops when decelerating and or idling the engine.
Maybe that can be solved otherwise, but his idea is worth to try.