Ha! The modern no till farming. Heared about it but no one uses it here (yet). Looks like eaven more poisoning.
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Just wondering about the number of hours on the generators and if any repairs other than general maintenance were needed. I have been hammering away on a POS Champion 1400 watt unit. About 200 hours now no breakdowns but has never made more than half of rated power, Frequency holds good but voltage down to about 101 by 750 watts Was going to return it for money back but bought aftermarket warranty that will refund or replace for four years. Why not wear it out first. I have learned to make it work for refrigeration ,lighting tv and battery charging all at the same time. It has more than paid for it self in fuel savings over using my next larger set for these needs when water heating ,pumping or appliances are not needed. I have been collecting all the 1800 rpm units I can get my hands on. I now have some ranging from 2.5 kw to 15 kw. They have another addiction especially the green ones.
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JimLaP. I figure your âgreen oneâs additional addictionsâ is expensive manufacturers parts, eh?
I am onto breaking in for a gift to family woman my third Firman PO1201/02, 1200/1500 watt unit.
Great full features on this small four stroke 65 pound unit. Big fuel filler cap. Has a tank level guage. Has both two 115 plugs and a dedicated 12VDC outputs. Very well heat shielded and can be two handed again the body toted around even when just shut down hot.
Not as quiet of course as my Inverter Honda and Yamaha units. But at 1/4 the price affordable for me on retirement income to gift away. The Firmanâs manuals are just as detailed as the Hondaâs and Yamahaâs.
Always some down side to go with the good. These small Firman/Chinese engines will be lucky to make it to 1000 hours life. The first 30-40 hours no matter what break-in oil I use; or how often the changes; I see fine metals sparklies in the drain out oil in the sunlight or under a strong light.
That is cylinder wall and piston ring materials wear/shedding. Engine life prematurely wearing away.
That is making these give-a-way, throw-a-away units. Something wrong with the metals alloys or the machining finishes.
I count back in the last 20 years breaking-in at least eight-ten different four-stroke Techumseh, B&S, Kawasaki, Kohler and Honda aircooled engines and only ever seeing just mild metals wear-in shed in the first oil changes.
S.U.
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If I understand you correctly you a promoting INVERTER GENERATORS. Correct. I went to the Firman home page and looked around and even on the PO1201/02 I didnât see the word INVERTER. I did notice down in the corner they showed some relation with Kohler engines, not in the PO1201/02. Wouldnât that be a big improvement?? Probably a detriment to the cost though. TomC PS On any generator how do I know if it is an INVERTER style.?
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Hi back TomC
Yessss. For my own personal use . . . and for those who really want the best fuel-in/kW electrical-out conversion the now proven inverter engine-generators are the way to go. What to have for high hours per year usages. What to have for all-use electronics safety.
You will know if they are inverter units as all of the manufactures will proudly say that on their offerings and labeling.
And the price for the inverter will 2x to 4x the price of standard synchronous AC output units in the same wattage.
The Firman line of 4-strokes and the Chinese clone copyâs of the Yamaha 2-strokes AC output synchronous are what I can afford to buy, proof out and gift to women family and friends. So they will have something. Show them the utility of a small personal generator first. And then they can pay to upgrade to a Honda/Yamaha inverter unit.
Synchronous means that the AC output frequency is locked into the engine RPM like a one speed manual transmission.
The inverter units the AC output frequency is set/generated by the inverter units internal electronics.
The inverter section on these can accept a wide range on live engine generated AC frequency and voltages as usable inputs into the inverter section.
This allows the engine speed to be able to be varied from slowest best fuel economy up to as high as 5000 RPM when that power is only actually needed,
Fuel use differences?
Set at a constant 500 watt loading:
The 72cc 2-stroke synchronous I can get 3-4.5 kW/hrs for every US gallon of gasoline.
Same 500 watt loading on the 79cc Firman 4-stroke and can get 5-6 kW/hrs per gallon.
Honda 2000 inverter unit loaded to a constant 500 watts I can get at least 7.5 kW/hrs, and have even kissed 9 kW/hrs per gallon a few times per gallon of gasoline.
Outside ambient temperatures, ethanol-free versus E-10, and even summer gasoline versus winter gasoline as range spreading factors with each unit.
S.U.
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Now days anything that I do NOT use on a daily basis, gets premium gasoline with out Ethanol. You never know when the last day is that you will use it until next season. Mostly my car is the only thing that gets regular. This program has served me well for the last couple of years. Thanks for the explanation on the inverter generators. TomC
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If you keep the fuel tanks full and shut off fuel line and run it till carb is dry i have never had a problem
No air space = no moisture in the tank
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I agree with Steve for the inverter generators. Fuel to Watts is you best bang for the buck. I was able to get a Chinese version at 5000 Watts and was very impressed, for about 100 hours, then it died with no hopes of necessitation. Unable to find a person to service it or a way to diagnose it. Iâm holding on to it just in case.
For welding, the diesel generator at 10k stands up better than a Honda powered 13k from Northern Tool.
I use the 5k Coleman Powermate to heat a 1500 Watt water heater element for our outdoor shower.
All units are dependable during the summer
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Hey Steve any idea on the consumption on the 1800 watt generic inverter generator? I ask because I loaded down my propane converted unit at 1 kw and hooked it to a 20 pounder trying to gage usage and ran out of time and patience trying to run it dry!!! The gasoline equivalent based on you experience would be awesome. Itâs a house brand clone but honda specs would give me a baseline anyways. Always interestingâŚ
David Baillie
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Hi Bill , you mention your Chinese 5000 watt inverter generator died ,what went on it was it the engine or inverter ? , the most common fault with the smaller units seem to be the ignition module , that gives a no spark on turnover , and was lucky enough to find a source of spare units close to where I live have replaced a few of them now , do you have a photoâs of your unit ?
Dave
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The engine runs fine. Something in the generator
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Hey DavidB your 125cc? model of Genrac has been replaced with a smaller, higher speed 80cc unit.
Same with GaryGâs Harbor Frieght unit he is using. 125cc down to a higher speed 80cc unit now.
This makes them lighter. And allows them to not have to build in a tank vapor recovery system per EPA.
The Honda 100cc â2000â unit constant loaded to 1000 watts output lasted ~7 hours running on one US gallon of gasoline. Was the 7kW/hrs rating. Needed to engine run at 3800 RPM.
500-600 watts loaded it engine runs at 2600-2800 RPM. 12.5-10.5 hour running time on the one gallon of gasoline. My 9kw/hrs per gallon was at a 1600 watt loading - unrealistic in real life use for me.
Inverter units are complex and very multiple electronics systems dependent.
Read the youtube and Amazon users comments and reviews and sorry to say only the Hondaâa and Yamahaâs seem to have the fewest failures problems. And most of their problems are fuel contamination issues.
S.U.
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System baseline energy needs is why I am reluctant to put up actual numbers.
What? You may say?
Take that one US gallon of gasoline . . .
IF I put it into my 11.5 kW/el Miller/Kohler welder-genrator, I could generate for one hour. 11.5 kW/hrs. It will actually do this well because it is digital electronic fuel injected w/O2 feedback sensor. IS loaded running at that systems maximum efficiency/loading.
Put this same one gallon US gasoline in a modern overhead valve carbureted 5500 watt synchonous generator loaded to 5500 watts-true and youâd probably run for a bit less than 2 hours. Call it 10 kW/hrs.
The Miller/Kohler is a biggish V-twin air cooled with a pressure delivery oil pump. Baseline just to run itself of at least 1 horsepower. This base line will increase with speed pumping more air and oil.
The 5500 watt scream-a-matic will have a medium-small single cylinder pumping air cooling but only have dipper splash oiling. Base line power to run of at least ~1/2 horsepower.
You have to pay for these baseline power needs regardless of the output power taken out.
The imposiblty is you will never have a constant needs/use for these high of wattageâs outputs. You will be demands, up and down killing these on-paper ideals.
500-1000 watt constant electrical take outs and your efficiency will really suck hind-teat.
And this is where the tiny systems uses Iâve put up shines. The inverter units shining the brightest.
No, not the absolute âefficiency-manicâsâ pleaseâers.
Where these systems please best, is the l-o-n-g hours running of just-enough pleasing.
I am searching for videoâs of DYI guys able to do this with common lawn mower engines, car/truck alternators, battries and off-the-shelf inverters. Safe electronic powering for pennyâs on the dollar.
Steve Unruh
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OK now. So my experience say I can at best with off the shelf engine generators make from 3kw/hrs to 11 kW/hrs of electrical energy from one US gallon of gasoline.
Now how to do this without spending out high dollars for the hardware.
How to do this in a âPetroleum Emergencyâ AFTER the Grid power is down. The Internet suppliers are all gone no-power bye-bye. The brick and mortar stores all been looted.
Great build example because it could all be done without any power tools at all.
Could be done with the mounting framework ALL out of wood (how I do these!)
Farther down I will list out how to double this guys stated 2kW/hrs per gallon.
Beginning of the video you can see this guy really does know the best engines and gen heads to get the the best fuel-use results. THIS video he is showing how to do with only lay-about pieces. Hurrah!
Much better build quality. So good as all-metal that he then got to diagnosis out functional problems his all-metal âqualityâ had created.
You must listen to the audio to really understand that âwood does it betterâ. Ha! He did put in a needed backside belt slack tensioner. Riding lawn mowers have these as take-off parts on the engine to axle belt drive.
Even at a 1000 watts electrical though he is wasting gasoline. So . . . maybe . . . 3kW/hrs per gallon.
Now here is a system example that with just two-three changes could make 4-6 kW/Hrs per gallon running efficiency.
My way.
ONE: Always use a newer model lawn mower overhead valve or overhead cam engine out of a power wheeled application. Common here now. 15-20% better efficiency than any âflatheadâ âside valveâ version.
TWO: Always use A PAIR of dual internal fan alternators; opposed mounted. These are common on mid-1980âs and later Chysler/Dodge/Jeeps and Japanese vehicles. Fords after the early 90âs. GM after the mid-90âs. These are 60-70% efficiency units. The old external fan units in these videos are only 40% efficient units.
THREE; using the larger 190-230cc sized engine then able to adjust down the running engine base speed of 2600-2800 RPM. This puts you in the best engine torque/fuel use RPM. Still enough RPM for enough cooling air flow and oil lube splashing.
YES. Use his two batteries. Set up the mounting size trays for truck Group 31 batteries. Then able to mount in almost any common auto/truck/marine batteries.
But now with the two opposed mounted alternators each going to itâs own separate 750-1000 watt inverter and battery.
This will evenly side load the lower engine crankshaft bearing.
This will power load down the engine for best fuel use results.
Give you US/CANADA four usable plug outlets.
OR: one side AC power - the other side deep draw 12VDC live generated power. Each alternator then able to charge back itâs own battery the best from these uneven power take-outs.
Give two parallel separate systems for redundancy.
Anything on one side goes down: pulleys, belt, alternator/regulator, inverter, battery and you still have 1/2 total system power. Use the same-same parts on each side building up and then you have have on-board spares for always having at least 1/2 system generating power.
Investments to do now.
The inverters. $63.USD each currently, WalMart and others
Invest now at used book stores/thrift shops for auto repair books for the alternators system wiring diagrams you will need for the different internally regulated systems. Learn when you junk car take off units you cut back into the wiring harness to get the polarized unit plugs and some re-purpose wiring along with the alternator.
Your very best best investment as always is into yourself, now, today, so you can with confidence V-crimp cabling with a short piece of copper tubing, a dulled chisel and a hammer. Know the â1â, â2â,âIâ, âLâ,âPâ, âRâ and âSâ terminals differences. Know how to governor speed adjust lawnmower engines. How to disable the newer mower engine mandated stop-brakes. Bowl-drop, and clean out carburetors while still engine mounted. Removed and swap alternator pulleys. âHarvestâ pulleys from rider lawn mower decks and hand fit to the engines.
Whatâs this all have to do with wood gas??
Set up this way, and work-use-proven, then once out of gasoline; out of propane, woodgas converting will be easy and still give you 750-1500 watts of power.
Ha! Only then on ~22 pounds/10 kiloâs of wood-sweated chunks fueled.
Regards
Steve Unruh
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More great advice as always Steve. As always. I take it these alternators bearings will take being vertical mounted? This would open a new opportunity for me as I have a Honda ohv engine from a discarded froze pressure washer. I have char gas ran 5 different small engines now two for generating dc power but still no ohv. Working season will be over soon and I will have time to play. I have gathered a few ohv engines and will be building dc generating units very soon. I bought solar panels and a charge controller yesterday but will not install or buy a new battery bank until I have multiple reliable back up charging systems
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Jim the alternator bearing being vertical versus horizontal will shorten the bearings life. How much? Depends on the bearing.
REALLY depends on you getting the belt(s) slapping/hammer/shaking controlled from the first video to the second video with an added tensioner.
The vehicle systems first going with the wide no-stretch poly-grooved belts just âarm-strongâ tensioned ate alternator bearings. Spring armed tensioned revised flat-belt systems brought the bearings life back to stretchy V belt bearing lifeâs.
S.U.
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Do you have an opinion on what would be the best alternator to use? I will be headed to my buddies salvage yard this weekend and will gather some more.
Just so you know somebody is listening .I have generated 100 % of my electric for over 6 months with either gasoline or char gas. I have gathered many 1800 rpm generators, single, twin and the latest being a 4cyl propane powered unit that I have just about ready to test fire. I have finally gotten to the point where I am spending less to generate my own power over buying it. This is only possible due to great sacrifices, much learning and the fact I live alone. This would not be possible with a family. I am starting to have fun with it and am looking forward to the new season. Much more learning to do. I have so many Ideas to implement just no time yet. I am still heating my water with electric. This will be one of my first projects, So many better ways to do this. I am going to at least preheat it with generator exuaste. wood and solar are on the way.
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Yes JimLaP, the best alternators to run vertically would be ones with BOTH front and back ballbearings.
The front external fan older units had a Torrington needle bearing in the back that will give no rotor end trust support assistance to the front bearing.
All of the late model dual internal fan units have both front and back ballbearings and are the revised higher efficiency designs. Most are 100 amp plus outputs. All have one piece nutted on pulleys running on a common 17mm shaft.
The earlier 1960 to early 1980âs Chrysler internal fan units had the Torrington rear needle bearing, and PITA press-on front pulleys. Takes special tools, and techniques to pulley change on those. Avoid these.
As I said most all of the other later model internal fan units will be fine.
As a Ford pickup guy I tend to favor the Motocraft alternators.
But the Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep installed Japanese Denso units are just as good.
Even the latter Delphi branded internal fans units seem to be giving long lifeâs again once the GM bean-counters were no longer able to down drive the designs as in the really, really pita, âfails soon and oftenâ, 80âs and 90âs CS model units.
S.U.
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I have used up all the SIâs that I had laying around. They seemed to fail pretty quickly on my run down bank of 3 AGMâs I think I still have a Good Delphi out there. Iâll get an assortment of what looks plentiful in the pile on the barn floor. I will look at the ambulances first but imagine they were first to go.
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Could someone please explain/draw how the âopposed mountedâ works here?
Is this having a 2-belt pulley on the engine shaft; one belt going to an alternator on the ârightâ; one belt going to an alternator on the âleftâ (making an 8 shape) with everything âfacing the same wayâ (ie all the pulleys face âforwardâ)?