Arvid,
Can you bring your Briggs up to 4000 or more, under full - hard load?
i’ve had it running with 1500 watts load on it at over 4000 rpm. I don’t leave it running there forever as the genset isn’t really designed for it… I’ve had it up to just 5000 rpms a few times too.
Yes. Ignition timing now well documented on the GCPL site of the India Institute of Science as directly tied into increasing compression ratios. Higher the compression in selected engine up to 17/1 the more gasoline “normal” the timing can be. Other things they found was combustion chamber shaping and spark plug location had a great effect on possible CR/Timing relationships. Conversion efficiencies went up. The always higher than gasoline/diesel waste coolant and exhaust heats went down. They were still not as efficient as gasoline or diesel because they were not heat recycling engine wastes heats back into the system as Mr Wayne does now.
I investigate this for stationary power fuel efficiency. I only want to prep the minimum amount of fuel wood to make a shaft go around and around for a real purpose.
Mr Vesa has actually built for power using woodgas with small block Ford/Lincoln and Chevy engines for vehicles. Intersting higher compression & supercharging versus timing/camshafts versus power/efficiency versus engine destruction results in his book.
He ends up surprisingly recommending investigating one of the late 70’s, early 80’s GM/OLDS diesel converted V-8 engines back fitted with spark ignition for woodgasing.
Ha! Ha! You Hot-Rod fellows prepared to prep the hundreds and hundreds of pounds of wood fuel you gonna need for your 1/4 mile creations if you then try daily road driving them??
Best you just make some woodgas first and learn to motate an actual stock vehicle. Otherwise you gonna have 'ol man me and other stockers passing you up in a stock woodgassed 302 pickup types chalking up 100K duration miles. Thats a form of racing too. How little to overall operations cost to click off the years and 100’s thousands miles. Always hands on do less with the stock power train except accelerated fluid change outs and keep your left foot light. Helps much on the road tickets too. Another way to run up your operations cost. Still saving up for that Alaska cruise ship vacation for the wife that we did not take back when.
Regards
Steve Unruh
It’s an old saying, racing improved the breed. What we learn in performance modding will directly apply to smooth easy to use and efficient daily drivers.
Peter, the Handbook referred to is on the site over here: http://driveonwood.com/resources/pdf-articles/handbook-biomass-downdraft-gasifier-engine-systems
Like I said about the AFR mix, it’s usually set by hand. Wayne likes to set it and leave it, since within normal driving it only varies within an acceptable mixture. Dutch John has a pressure based mixer valve. I think Jim Mason had an Arduino feedback loop controlling the mixture. I was going that route originally but the wiser ones told me to KISS and just use the manual mixer. It definitely works.
Steve,
Thanks for the information, every bit is useful. As far as hot rodding goes, I really have no desire to build a WG race engine. Rather trying to apply well known, tried & proven race technology to improve basic WG engine performance. My thoughts are more towards improving performance along with decreasing wood consumption. Just thoughts at this point …
Keep em coming!! Peter
The book explains everything and the resource is credible. Another book is the Swedish experience series. 1939-1945. Be careful.
Hi Chris,
You are correct, many of the improvements realized on the street originated from racing technology. I have been thinking, if a combination could be worked out, one would not be limited to large engines in smaller vehicles.
Chris,
What is the limiting factor on top speed ------ lack of hp or lack of WG at higher rpm?
Peter
It’s a combination of things. With a gasifier that is inadequate for the engine, you will be limited by the woodgas production. Gearing can be a problem too, as in my old Dodge with a 3spd automatic. Wayne’s gasifiers seem to make plenty of gas for all engines right up to the 8L V10 in the Dodge Ram. His limiting factor is more engine related - can’t burn the gas fast enough, and low CR is reducing the overall power output. So he chooses large engines in small packages. Once you solve those I think you’ll be back to “normal” engine performance. The main limit on top speed will be a flashing siren on the patrol car.
I guess it all comes down to how fast do you want/need to go. I can break the speed limit on all of the roads I travel on in my 2.5L. I do think there is efficiency/power to be gained with more CR.
Terry
Raising the compression ratio cause the engine to knock when using gasoline. I use gasoline now and again when I get into a spot where the unit is low on fuel, bridging, etc. to be able to accelerate easily and safely. My Ranger pumps out over 210 psi per cylinder now. I don’t know how much more you could raise it. There are much cheaper more effective ways to increase the power from a gasifier.
Hi Steve,
Good post I like where your head is at with this your 100% right lots of wood will be needed for the 1/4 mile.
How bout a friendly race. Condition one.
First one to hit 110mph in the measured mile from dead stop on wood.
Condition Two.
After driving 110mph on wood the truck and gasifier must be driven for 20,000 miles in a period of one year therefor the odometer in the truck must be kept in working condition. We are way above highway speeds here so a private track will be needed Just a thought BBB Sean
Hi Guys,
This CR post has headed in the wrong direction. The mention of methanol & racing in no way represents what i have in mind for a WG engine. Rather i am trying to make a comparison on switching a gasoline engine from it’s intended fuel to Brand X. Keep in mind, gasoline is the easiest fuel to fire & does not require hopped up components to function correctly. As it happens, we have had some past experiences in switching naturally aspirated engines from gasoline to methanol. I am merely pointing out that the performance problems encountered in converting a gasoline engine to wood gas seems to directly parallel problems encountered in converting gasoline engines to methanol. Again i say, any mention of racing or methanol is purely in the interest of curing a WG tune up issue. I would think that a 250hp gas engine should be at least 250hp on WG with the correct tune up combination.
I do not call this level of tune up a hot rod or drag race vehicle, rather a properly functioning internal combustion engine. Is anybody with me on this, or am i all wet??
Peter
Sigh. PeterC you are not all wet by any means.
But you are still comparing fuel apples with oranges fruits with with whole wheat bread.
250 horsepower is only used in real world common road automotive for burst acceleration for a limited short time. Fella’s I have actually known pulling a continuous 250 horsepower for 45 minutes or more with gasoline big block towing/RVing pulling grades towing have glowing red exhaust manifolds and lots of engine life shortened valve and piston problems later. Just the same as with the 400-1000 miles racers. So see, this is why this kind of power desire is viewed as just another hole in your pocket $$$$ racing. Most of us just happy fine growing, grinding, cooking eating whole wheats, and oats and saving the money to pay the Caesar taxes to keep what we have.
Wanna’ demand/use 250+ horsepower hour after hour for heavy truck line haul, field Ag tractoring, marine fishing? These fellows have learned you have to use bigger mass, less heat stressed, more efficient conversion (less waste heats!!) diesels. Cummins 220, 335, 350 and 400 horsepower engines. Detroit 8V72’s, 8V92’s and Caterpillar, and Mack equivalents as on road used engines. The actual continuos power gasoline users of 250+ horsepower were piston aircraft. THEY in the 30’s-60’s avanced the art and science of doing this with piston IC engines more that all of the bracket racing users combined IMHO.
The 1916-18 Liberty engine was an OHC, V-12, dual magneto engine.
Produced woodgas motor fuel is more like if you are directly using out of the ground well head gas, landfill gas, 1920’s gasoline, kerosene’s and fuel oils, and Bunker C. NOT purified, dewatered and refined todays gasoline blends, LPG, CNG, and manufactured supplied barrels of spec ethanol or refinery supplied purified barrels of methanol.
Really man. Do follow up on the sources I put up. For woodgas there is even much more info out there for power and efficiencies in Prahtash, Cummins/India, Waukesha, and GE/Jenbacher engines data bases for CR, ignition timing, pressure induction in addition to the CGPL/IISc and Vessa Mikkonen book I referred you all to already for those wanting to try and performance woodgas “running” before they have even gone thru flare “crawling” to ANY operating IC engine woodgas “walking” stages.
Then you will learn how they evoled to deal with soots, a strange whitish/yellow crystal induction build up from this relatively easy to DYI make, but unrefined, motor fuel.
Seriously, woodgas will only reward Doing, using it; not talking, not speculating.
Submitted Most Respectfully
Steve Unruh
Hi Steve,
I like your straight forward no nonsense reply. Yes, you are correct in the fact that i am a beginner at WG & have not made a flare yet. Although i am a beginner at gasser functions & operation, my ranking on the rest of the project is somewhat higher. With the help from all of you guys, the beginner part should be no problem. I am sure that when i finish my WK gasser, it will flare flawlessly & produce the identical WG that many operators are currently running on. “Talking & speculating” as you put it, is merely gathering all engine tune up data available, & input from current operators of WK gassers in vehicle, current real world conditions. I have always felt that extensive research prior to a project was well worth the time spent. If you think i am a talker & not a serious builder, I invite you to visit my shop any time. The information gathered will guide me in my decision of what engine to put in what vehicle for experimentation purposes. Incidentally, the common RV engine melt down problem you spoke of was cured by us racers back in the mid 80s.
Submitted Most Respectfully
Peter Coronis
I like this topic, we have E-85 availabe here and Ive wanted to do an E-85 conversion for a long time. Now that I know that syngas will run better in a higher cr engine I really want to do it.
It will be a while but I will definatly be getting a truck or something to experiment with. An early 90’s Toyota p/u with an SBC conversion is what I really want. 
283 with 14:1 cr, RV cam, ram jet intake. Hope I can keep rubber on it!!
Yeah I think the flex fuel cars are ruining what E-85 could be. Those engines are still designed to run on gasoline and will never get desent fuel milage running ethanol. If they could build the engines to run E85 only they would get much better fuel milage and they would have tons more power. Id love to see an E-85 only Camaro or Corvett. And if they dont quite get the fuel milage as an equivalent gas engine. So what I bet it would be close and even out the price diference making it more practical.
Matt,
I also like the topic. Engine tune up will be the next major step in WG.
Peter
Fella’s here is an article to the best documentation on CR and IG timing graphed changes I have found so far:
“Development of Producer Gas Engines” by G Sridnar and H S Mukunda
This has been publishes and republished several times now. (Google) internet search for this title and use the best of 4-6 links that works for your particular IPS/server.
Bottom line of their research was increasing the CR with the right combustion chamber turbulence allowed them to not have to over advance the timing so far on woodgas. This allowed for a longer degrees of effective crankshaft push. Better cyclinder pressure rise to rotary motion engine conversion meant less measured waste coolant and exhaust heat. This “lab rat” study was done on three different engine types and is at well documented. Skip the maths as I do and just read the words, study the graphs and conclusions.
Regards
Steve Unruh
Good read Steve!
I now understand how different people can have different timing perceptions!
Thanks, Terry