Hello Randall and welcome to the DOW
Below is a post from Chris that may help answer your question .
http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/true-costs-and-gasifier-value/6240
Hello Randall and welcome to the DOW
Below is a post from Chris that may help answer your question .
http://forum.driveonwood.com/t/true-costs-and-gasifier-value/6240
Welcome Randall. Material prices may go up as you suggested but most of it is scrounged; what folks here call obtainium. What we are finding is increasing unavailability of things like gauges and monitoring equipment. I would suggest your first move would be to look in the book at the kinds of instruments Wayne suggests and then find them.
It depends, but usually quite a bit. What I might suggest is read the book, get a handle on what you are doing. Since you are probably in a bit of hurry because of fuel prices, you might look at charcoal gasifiers. The issue is they are simpler, and some of the components will be the same. But the biggie is all gasifiers like consistently sized fuel, and you won’t have to worry about building a chunker as another project before you even start. That will buy you some time to scrounge up stuff you need and save you some money in the meantime.
You didn’t mention what your main goal for Driving on Wood is Randall. Daily driver, hobby, work truck. I highly recommend you read through Marcus’s WK build. He is a highly skilled fabricator and even with a lot of suggestions from long time WK builders it was still a challenging build for him. A great deal to be learned there. As Sean suggested, you may want to start out with some kind of charcoal fueled unit on a smaller lighter vehicle. Look at Eddie Ramos and Don Mannes builds. You can also find their videos on You Tube.
Wayne says 250-300 hours total build time, he can do it faster since its muscle memory now took me about 300 taking my time. Cost is reflective of how nice you want it to be, I already spent more money on my next build in parts then I did to build my first one and that was just opting for nice led gauges to make the interior of the truck look nice and tidy. first build was about 500$ this one will be I think about 700$ since I have to buy the firetube new. That’s scrap barrels and water heaters and whatnot (obtanium) no fancy stainless, and this build will take longer because I want it to look nicer. More paint prep time will be invested in this one then the last, and more blowers for faster startup times
Welcom too dow randall C / Cost for laber is estomated about 300 hours time / times welders pay an hour. I built two wayne gasifiers, both work fine, The dodge dakota 93 too 96 worked best for weight too HP ratio and have port fuel injection, that seems to be benificial.I have a 99 dakota v8 318 that seems too work as well, that i am gathering material for a new WK gasifier build, BE CAREFUL as gasifier building can be addictive.
And as the most recent building, then running. and then talking about it, Marcus:
what is your time & costs estimate to make up your axle shear drum chunker??
Building is one thing
Learning to operate is another multiple of hour’s commitment.
But feeding the Beast is a whole 'nother level of commitment adding onto existing daily/weekly chores.
Steve Unruh
Great response thank you for sharing it!
Thank you! I will do that and see what I can come up with.
I built my last burn tube from 100 pound propane tank steel with no cooling parts added.and put 1-1/2 ceramic blanket inside it, it dident seem too make any tar signs, no sticky throtle plates. Though i had an extra good size wk heat exchanger , preeheater. my first burn tube and asembley , counting hopper was a bit on the heavy side, i used 1/8 inch thick fire tube cooling stuff, it was useing what i had handy-though it was up over 300 pounds not counting hay filter and all the drain tanks, Ya stainless outer hopper could be had probley under 100 bucks, i want too make sure i am done resizeing everything too suit before going SS. Then i will buy a sheet of ss tin at salvage yard scraps size i need, Roll it the size hopper i want and weld a wheel rim edge too the ss top plate for a door seal seat.
Tom,
'I am a prepper and off grid guy at heart having grown up that way ( and during the day I run the largest real estate company in the state and a construction company from my desk ).
I don’t like the idea of being stranded because there is no gasoline and I can’t get to my spot or kids house to help. I hate the thoughts of being stranded by our screw ups in government and their poor energy choices.
We have a charity in Nepal and I think this tech could be useful there as well if I can figure it out here for running a generator etc. (www.eternalhopeinternational.com)
Also I think that these vehicles would hold their value, especially in what I suspect is coming. Biden today said there would be national food shortages and there are a number of the biggest commodity companies with margin calls facing BK also out today.
I don’t want cash it’s going down about 20% A YEAR in buying power. I prefer things of value, durable goods etc.
I live in Utah but have a sawmill in Oregon ( small one) where my daughter lives. So if I were there I would likely have no issues getting fuel.
So for that reason it seems that having a truck that could pull my trailer even across country would not be a bad idea.
I lived in Spain with my wife and her parents had one on one of their cars from the Civil War there and it was fascinating to me 30 years ago. I turn 59 tomorrow and this seems like fun
We’ll see!
I am a prepper as well Randall. Suddenly that is not looking so foolish to a lot of people. I’m 74 so that alone adds a level of restriction but I’m still taking names and kicking ass. My focus is on maximum self sufficiency. I am less concerned about things political than I am geological. I would have real concerns about heading west from Utah on that basis unless I was getting west of the Cascades. On the basis of being able to pull a trailer you are going to have to build a WK rather than any simpler Charcoal based system. Keep in mind the rapidly collapsing supply chain. Mig and Tig both depend on shielding gas. If that runs out and you don’t have an alternative supply of flux core then you won’t be building anything. I mainly stick weld on most things and I am a professional welder, but some materials used in building a gasifier are just too thin and believe me, I have a supply of the smallest coated rods available. Just to hot. I believe time is of the essence. I think that something a lot of DOW guys and DOW hopefuls fail to understand is that when the SHTF and some people don’t have fuel, that driving down the road will require someone actually riding shotgun.
Seems like I saw a gasifier that ran on wood pellets?
Tom,
I agree with that completely. Hate to see it come to that and it could be dangerous to travel. I am ex military and at 59 way better armed today than I was then but that may not be enough. If its really ugly a convoy would be needed but I digress.
My daughter is in Burns Oregon, Son in Salt Lake, and we hav been looking at getaway places in MO or TN (warmer and cost effective).
I like projects and at this time seem to have more money than time after building a business for 20 years but I am working on that as well.
A bit out of practice but was best at gas welding for the thin stuff having done autobody in the past. I have a nice hobart with a spoolgun for aluminum and thought I might take my chances here and see.
Biden said there “would be” food shortages… I guess its starting.
Saving fuel monies has helped me massively paying the bills the last 5 months while I drive on wood. Plus a biproduct of gasification is biochar. Super duper helpful in the garden for growing your own, screw the supply chain, and big oil and it’s crisis. They made that bed they can lay in it, we have the freedom fuel and the chosen will to not need them and there crap. Self sufficiency +1
and Steve asked I’m not sure how many hours it took to build my chunker, but about 2 weeks of tinkering a few hours a day after work, and only part I had to buy was the belt, everything else was scrap or junk I had laying around. Junk generator motor with a bad carb, useless ford van dana 60, scrap metel, scrap big rig brake drum for a flywheel, rusted out old motorcycle trailer, junk chevy dually rims and tires, some scrap pipe from @mggibb a ford alternator pulley. Throw in some welding action and the chunks start flying! I did a full build video series if you want to see how I built it, based somewhere between Wayne’s and Mike chunkers
You will be alright. The biggest welding problem is not leaving pinprick sized holes in places so air can get in. There was someone that did actually make them, but that was probably 15 years ago, and I haven’t seen them around since. I think they were in kansas or missouri.
You can also adapt the design to stationary power, in which case @Matt
owns https://www.thriveoffgrid.net/ and builds them and ships around the world. In theory, you could charge an electric vehicle with them, but I am guessing you may not like the idea of an electric vehicle though.
He has his own thread on this forum.
At the very least it will give you a different perspective on what is possible.
If you are wanting to drive across the country especially in a SHTF scenario you may want to be familiar with both techs. Most people start with a charcoal gasifier because it is cheap and easy. You can convert a small engine fairly quickly, and charcoal is easy to make. It is also ends up to have a higher fuel density, because the char process removes water, ash and a lot of the tars. it is easy to crush and then screen to size. You can convert a small engine easily in a weekend to get started.
If you are looking for Africa, then you might take a closer look at combining it with solar into a more of a microgrid/offgrid solution. Less work is required, and the cost of solar has plummeted so it can pay back in 7-12 years in most of the US and probably even faster in africa because they use a lot of diesel generation which is more expensive. It doesn’t help for driving unless you have the EV which some parts of africa do have a few and like the Wuling mini-ev is starting to be sold there.
In our state, all building contractors are required to keep refuse like recycleable building materials ie wood out of the dump. So you may find a way to save money.
You can do a WK style, I am not trying to dissuade you. i just want you to be successful. Knowing 50 ways to skin a cat will allow you to adopt various parts that work for you. There is no wrong way. Everyone’s situation is different.
Time is of the essence Randall. I have been accused if being a doom and gloomer for so long now that I have callouses on my ear drums, but anyone can see now that there is no way out of the corner we are backed into. it’s either fish or cut bait. Because I been so long in the prepper community I have established contacts throughout the country with some who have other contacts among the many ex-military who are spread out through the Ozarks. Because some of them were in military intelligence they were made aware of what is coming and determined that that area was probably the best choice. It is a closed group and wary of outsiders. If you have like minded family or friends then you are stronger than you are on your own and would better off concentrating on areas you are familiar with. The NW is a viable option as long as you are not caught in a pyroclastic flow or beneath a couple tons of volcanic ash.
Being in Utah you are possibly LDS. That is a benefit in itself. However you decide to proceed, be aware of how the prevailing winds are going to carry ash because there will be an abundance. Both Mr Rainier and St Helens are sure to erupt and there are others as well. Soon there will be a major quake from the New Madrid fault that will split the country in two. No reason to debate these things. As they say, hope for the best and prepare for the worst but it is definitely time for action rather than more blah blah blah. I don’t want to poke a stick in a hornet’s nest here but if you are relying solely on PV for emergency power you have problems. Highly recommend that you take the advise given by folks here and gasify a generator. Especially look at MattR’s recent videos on Thrive off Grid. If you have more money than you know what to do with just buy one of his proven units and then start experimenting on your own.
Not to derail too much further but I know if I had the income I’d buy one or two of Matt’s new gasifiers, run them in parallel so you can keep one running while refueling. Especially now that he’s proven you can hybrid a little bit of wood chips in with the charcoal since his filters are top notch for that application.
I will actually quote a -different- reason, the Biden just bumped up the allowable limit of NG to be sent to Europe. And 30+% of electric generation in the US is done with NG. Then there is an astronomical amount of electric used by refineries.
At the very least, it makes a great deal of sense to get some solar panels.