The DIY zeolyte advocates seem to do a good job. CO2 with comes out with water…That leaves only comustables. Thats good CO comes out in acetic acid. That leaves hydrogen and methane Not bad
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I disagree as I have already done it. I just dont have gas analysis equipment to really know what is happening. But I have certainly mixed ethanol with water in the past and it worked fine. There is no oxidation of the ethanol; the oxygen mixture is way to lean for it to burn. I would never put 100% in the water tank that is crazy dangerouse. It must be mixed and no more than a 50/50 mixture.
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At “boiling temperature” the pressure is what it is. Higher pressure, higher boiling temperature. Think of a pressure cooker. You get to choose either the pressure or temperature; the other you get automatically. You have to get rid of lower boiling point compounds first, or they will jack up the pressure. If you condense and draw off each fraction as you lower the temperature, you can work at whatever pressure you choose. Except at lower pressures you need lower temperatures. That requires more (expensive) refrigeration. And that’s the rub. The cost of the refrigeration energy is going to hurt.
This works, but to remove most of the CO2, you need to raise the gas pressure to dissolve the CO2 in the water, then lower the gas pressure to let the water give up the CO2. Again, the energy has to be supplied to make this work. And there are the equipment costs to get going.
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Hello Phillip,
Thank you for your response.
At this time, we do not have a product offering that would meet your request.
All the best,
Marie Robertson
National Inside Sales Specialist
Mid-Atlantic Area
Ingersoll Rand
(P) 615.598.3559
Email: [email protected]
Hablo Español
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Matt, lm not saying it doesent work. Just that that l dubt it works via the mechanism yo2u propose. Q
Just because an element is presentp in a molecule doesent mean it can just magicaly change the whole deal. Atoms are in different energy states and more or less in favour of reacting with other things depending of the state.
In the case of injecting ethanol (or any fuel) in the gasifier we must understand that we add a lot of energy in the sistem. Heat. And the more we do (same stands for air or fuel preheat) more steam the gasifier can crack and less air needs to enter. Less nitrogen, richer gas!
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you have to look at the pyrolysis of ethanol. Apparently there can be several different products(H2, CO, CH4, CH3CHO, C2H4) , but none were how Matt proposed as water isn’t involved at all.
page 5 (page 59 of the magazine) of this has a table.
https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1039/TF9605600055
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The C2H4 maybe what I was after. Looking at the chain C2H5 made sense and is mass produced as a solvant . But that might not be the case when its tore apart wtih carbon thermal cracking and then other things adding back, into those chains making different products. Basically all we are doing is refining the Ethanol into to these products. Its natural state would be a liquid but in a gasifier it will remain in a gas state.
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By ripping out the oxygen the refined ether is now non corosive.
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Whatever happened to Phillip’s original request?:
“Hi shoot this down. Cryogenic gas separation looks really useful.”
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We are not off topic its all related
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cryogenic gas separation is really useful. 
However, apparently they don’t make the coolers, so you would need to acquire like liquid nitrogen, helium, etc then use their products for the separation. In fact it appears as though industrial scale ethylene separation in europe does use it because they make a lot of their ethylene from Naptha they crack.
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Hi Thank you for the replies. I’m going to post what I’ve learned
The best syngas is charcoal syngas with zeolyte filtering.
Cryogenics - use zeolyte to remove nitrogen then remove CO2 and you’ll upgrade the gas to combustibles. This direction from warm to cold is better than trying to make a slurry or top down. That was a bad idea. This would be a good syngas upgrade by it self. I would say cryo would work in this direction The other gases should remain inert.
Right on!
F
-425 He
-423 H
-324 Ni
-321 CO
-258 CH4
-109 C02
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Yeah charcoal has a way better chance of reducing the inert gases while also allowing for further enhancement of the gas by cracking other waste materials or striaght up water with the thermal cracking cabability. You can do this with a wood gasifier if you had enough money to through at it but it would be far more complex to do.
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I think to remove nitrogen with a zeolyte filter, you have to seriously chill the zeolyte bed. If you do, everything below it on your list will be adsorbed also. With multiple steps and temperatures, you can probably do it. I’m used to zeolytes, or molecular seives (synthetic zeolytes), for pumping vacuum chambers without oil contamination. Processing fuel quantities of gases is another scale altogether.
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Change your perception of the charcoal gasifier. Charcoal is not the fuel its the catylist, what you inject into the nozzle is the fuel you are refining. This can be water or what ever as long as it will react in the reactor with a desirable outcome. This years CFX RTR has pushed the water cracking far beyond earlier versions. It can crack 2 litters of water per 10 gallons of charcoal. 1/3 of the energy density of the gas is produced via the water cracking. The gas is much more powerful than a wood gasifier. Last years DXF-10 test unit we could only sustain a 1.5 to 2 kW load. This years CFX can sustain 2 - 3 kW loads without constant fiddling around. We litterally dump the water in its not a one drip per second its a constant stream of water and our filters are bone dry!! That water has to be going somewhere and its not steam or condensing out anywhere. So have to assume its converting near 100% in the reactor.
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We, here in the US, produce cryo-cooled natural gas by the shipload. Perhaps we could find or make a nano scale cryo-cooler for home and farm use. Perhaps we could set it up to separate out nitrogen. My guess is that they use Stirling cycle machines as heat pumps to remove thermal energy.
Rindert
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I dont know how practical this would be. This is why I was considering an oxygen consentrator in the past. But if you could just inject pure oxygen and forget injecting atmosphere you then eliminate the nitrogen pre process. Rather than adding the complexity of filtering just dont add it in the first place. You then replace the nitrogen with something and that replacement then would be more water to convert to steam to replace that volume so that flow volocities are unchanged.
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Hi Matt thank you for the reply I never look at this but I know its there thank you for briefing me . I look up to you. Thats a very contemporary reaction good luck. Ill watch for updates. P
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there are a few products available and its ok to pick them out Its hard to remove nitrogen with nitrogen so use zeolyte it has a small over head and it goes quick but it might not be 99.9999 percent. CO2 needs out and it has a low boiling point while the difference between CO2 and liquid nitrogen is large so you have a big hammer. That leaves CH4 next with a ready industry like you said . P
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I read zeolyte removes CO2 thats good to hear.
The idea of sending gases into fluids to filter gases out doesnt work for mass because the volume is real bad. Six million gallons to store one ton of CO2. one can of soda is .000012 of a ton of CO2. You need 980000 cans to make one ton CO2.
Super heated water works 5x better.
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