Hi, Bill!
11.2.2016
Firewood, and whatever wood has to be ~2feet above ground, even if under a tarp or otherwise covered!
Free air circulation especially under a pile is the only way it can reach some “mean-humidity” and avoid moulding. And dry firewood gives more heat, as you know…
Max
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Bill
If you need free tarps you might check with local lumber yards and see if they have lumber wraps in the dumpster. OK for short term use.
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If you ever got near civilization, try some dairy farmers. They don’t us silos much anymore they put everything in 10 ft dia. plastic tubes or just pile the feed on the ground and cover it with HUGE plastic sheets. I’m sure it it 6 mil or better and after one season they have to get rid of it. TomC
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Hi bill unconventional metal for you above ground pools often have metal sheeting around the whole perimeter and if not the vinyl liner is thick and will last forever. Steel sheds often collapse under snow load but most of the wall panels are salvageable. My first wood she’d looked just like yours. I nailed thin trees close together for a roof then covered with a tarp. Lasted 5 years. Now the wood lives under the deck with steel roofing screwed to the underside of the joints…
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I like this idea David
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So before winter my battery is supposed to shut down at 50% to protect the batteries. Slowly it has progressed to 65%, then 75% now it’s up to 85-90%. This only gives me 10-15% of potential power.
I still haven’t completely figured out my welder yet so I haven’t been able to make a heat exchanger from my wood stove yet. But I have a good plan.
So today I made it a priority to check my levels and found many cells iced up. So I decided not to add any distilled water and will once I can contract the temps adequately. I went to Home Depot and bought an indoor/outdoor thermometer with a remote outdoor sensor. So I hung the sensor inside the battery box and can monitor the temps from inside the cabin.
I made a 2" hole through the house to the outside and ran a PVC pipe to the box. A small 12 muffin fan to a battery inside the house to push ambient air to the box. Yeah, may be a poor solution but it was what I had on hand and ready to go. So I will give it overnight to see the results.
I think 9° will be my current low temperature. Realistically, if I can get it to 65°, I’ll call it good. Not holding my breath though.
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Wow… the ice explains a lot.
Just for the record, I don’t think the house air temperature air will melt much. Think about trying to melt ice with a hair dryer… those put out air at around 130 degrees, in moderate volume. Curious to see your results though.
I think your fastest heat transfer might be a bag of sand, large chunk of steel, etc… warm it up by the stove, as hot as you can handle, then take it out to the batteries. The thermal mass will transfer to the batteries much more effectively.
Vehicle exhaust piped into the box (anytime you warm your engine up) would go a long way too. That’s around 200 degrees.
Check out an article here:
A fully charged battery has more H2SO4 than a discharged battery. The additional H2SO4 depresses the freezing point of the batteries electrolyte to around -70 °C. This is a temperature we do not see in Minnesota. However, a discharged battery’s freezing point rises to ~-10 °C. Unfortunately, the temperature in Minnesota frequently drops below -10 °C.
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Cut the air space down to the least amount you can. Put Styrofoam sheets from the batteries to the top of the box and maybe some in the space opposite the batteries in the bottom of the box. Then hang a 100 watt bulb in the open space to heat it. We use to keep a light under the hood and close to the battery on our cars— back in the dayTomC
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Bill, I don’t have an immediate solution but it looks like you are going to need a at least semi heated utility room before next winter. Batteries nor your generator like the cold. You are welcome to build your heat exchanger here. you are also welcome to whatever materials we can scrounge up here. Seems some genny heat could be stored in the thermal mass of them batteries if it was built in to same encloseure carful to not over heat them.
I got the consumables today. Yesterday I did the timing advance on my Dakota while the intake is off. When I got my bracket finalized I made a second for you. Took all day for mine but was real fast to copy. Stay warm
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You’re the best Jim!
If I can’t get my welder going I might just have to visit you for the heat exchanger I want to make. Would be a good excuse to run to Wisconsin.
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In -20 weather I once brought a dead battery inside, set it down by the woodstove, and hooked up the charger. Pretty soon either my smoke or co alarm went off(can’t remember which) which thawed my brain enough to make me think this probably isn’t a good idea. I realize there’s H2 outgassing. Is there consensus as to whether battery banks should be isolated from living space, particularly when open flames from woodstoves are involved?
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From experience I can tell you that off gassing will set off a carbon monoxide detector. It’s not CO it’s hydrogen sulphide I think. Anyways if they are inside they are supposed to be vented if you are up to code. Important in a tight modern inspected insured home maybe not so much in a drafty older place. I ended up moving mine to the garage freeing up some space and allowing me to tinker on them in private… My version of a man cave.
Stay warm, David Baillie
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So the fan thing didn’t work. I had to reduce it down so much there was minimal airflow. So I hooked up my Seachoice fan. It pushed air in there but was too damn noisy. So I put a small heat lamp in there and it seems to be raising the temperature. My problem is, it scares me to use a heat lamp while batteries may be off gassing.
@Chris, I’m not sure what I can use that can handle 200° temps from the tailpipe of a car.
I do like that idea and this is my only roadblock with your suggestion.
The heat lamp has raise the temp from 6°-13° in less than hour.
Keep in mind, when I was running the fan, it was -20°F inside the box was 5°F when I opened the box, it dropped instantly to 3°F. The outside temps this AM are at 0° and inside the box temps are raising faster with the heat lamp than last night. I hope to achieve 65° but will only run the lamp while the generator is running.
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Bill, At this point I would not loose to much sleep over it. You have nearly made it through your first winter. We have been blessed with a very mild one. Hopefully they get some sun. You will notice in the next week and a half the sun will get amazingly strong. You should be watching it very closely your first years here. much to learn, everything you do in your new home will revolve around this if you are to be comfortable here.
Think about getting started on next winters wood now while the sap is down and the ground is froze. there are many places you can’t get when the ground thaws , harvest this wood now. While that tractor is running splitting wood it is making heat and dc power. a rear heater from a van or suburban will thaw and warm your battery enclosure using this waist heat. I think I have one in the shed ,if not I sure know where to get them for nothing.
Congradulations you have just made it through what may be the hardest winter of your life. You are learning at a rate faster than ever and now have a huge head start on the race to make things better. I hope I can get up there this week to see what you got going on. and hopefully help keep you from making some of the mistakes I have. Wish I knew then what I know now but I am still learning faster than ever as well. Lots of very bright and experienced minds here all willing to share and help any way possible. Spring is just around the corner.
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Could not agree with Jim more. You are hobbled right now in terms of electricity… so what. Do something else and coast in that department. You can do heat cables, radiant tubing off the propane heater, insulated box all that great stuff sure do it but don’t rush it yet. Do something you can now. Probably charge them up that will heat them too, as late as possible and let them coast for tonight. Go chop wood.
Best regards David Baillie
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bill my batteries froze the first year and ruined them ouch that hurt so I ended up building a box indoors with a small vent at the top and bottom easy to close or open no freezing for 15 years no detectors going off or anything . personally if yours are slushy don’t let it go you might still save them heat up some water bring them in and let them soak it does take a while to get the center warm. good luck
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Hi Bill,
I was trying to find some pictures of battery boxes. Most seem to be lost to computer change overs…
Ist one is a system I worked on for someone, 8 X l16 size ones in a compact box, vented forgive the mess, I never took pictures for display…
2nd and 3rd one was our cabinet/battery box, again 8 x L16, vented, two rows of 4 to save space with auto waterers again to save space
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Yes Paul is right don’t let them freeze. get the genny going and cycle some heat in there with light bulb, hair dryer or what ever you have available… I was just saying don’t spend a lot of money and time on a temporary solution.I totally agree they should be in heated space. I have 10 batterys sitting in my garage now pulled from extra vehicles not used in winter. Cold is hard on batterys
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I take my battery out of the tractor and bring it in like an old dog that it is.
Years ago I got me one if those electric golf carts to drive between homesteads. New batteries and a fancy new computerized charger.
Figured if I got past 5 years strong the next 3 years would be profit from dieing batteries. Well, in the third year they started to explode. Just like a 22 went off under my seat. 
so I replaced the first one with a new one. Of course the new battery becomes a over 2 year old as soon as it joins the older batteries. Then the nexted one went off… Replace… When the third one exploded I gave up on electric cars…!
That’s why I want one of the biggest and best 12v agm’s I can afford. Later add a second system with only one battery… But that’s just my silly way of doing things…
Chill…
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Well, I’ve had a much better experience with electric golf cart batteries. I bought a brand new set when i got the old cart, about 8 or 9 years ago, and they are still going. True, they don’t have as much capacity as when new, but no catastrophic failures. This is with on old NON computer charger and cart.
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