Bruce, you can either take over this thread or at least post a link to your own thread on your down draft gasifier here if/when you start on it.
I haven’t given up on this but that first propane tank was going to need too many modifications and I wanted a forge. I do still want to make a down draft gasifier.
How big of engine is the Simplicity? I had one of those at one time but never got it running and ended up just scrapping it.
I did work on a 1960 Speedex a little while ago and considered trying to run it on wood. I think it’s a 10 HP but might only be 9.
I can’t locate current pictures of that little tractor but I put new front tires on it and replaced the back ones with pickup truck tires. All the tires on it were bad. I put a new carb on it and throttle cable and got it usable but not “restored”.
Brian, Mine is 18 HP. Thanks for inviting me to take over this thread, but it will probably a long time before I make any progress. Now that I know the engine runs and I have a gasifier plan, it is full stop so I can get our house and cars ready for winter. I look forward to seeing your progress when you get back to building another down-draft. Perhaps you have inspired others to keep this topic going while you regroup?
Grace and peace,
Bruce
Are you sure about that Bruce? Looks identical to the 14 hp motor I am rebuilding. If I remember right the Simplicity 3414 was 34 inch cut with a 14 hp motor.
HV_Druck holzgas columbien pdf.pdf (3.1 MB)
brian, my first building guide was this pdf from a project from south america…
my first downdraft gasifiers from propane tanks has worked really well from the beginning…
first motor, a honda gx 160 runs in july 2020, first test run one hour to see if it works for longer time, it was very exiting …with not so much charcoal runs a motor!!!
only the nozzle from up, because made of normal water installation pieces was not ideal, and not keeps up for long, so i made the nozzle entering from the side…
I think my engines are about half the size of their 0.5-1 liter so I don’t know if I should try to scale this down or just try to find scrap close to these dimensions and hope for the best. My engines are pretty close to the honda gx 160 you used.
It depends on what I find and how ambitious I am but this at least gives me an idea for the next try.
i have made it without fire cement ecc for weight reasons, and it is really not necessary to use them…
you see on the photos : the nozzle massive metal head is situated immediately over the part with smaller diameter (diameter about 20 cm, deep down to the grate 17cm)
hopper filling is for 4 hours engine run under load…long grass mower
also the 3kw peak electricity generator , 200ccm engine, also honda runs fine with this dimensions, but needs a bit more coal because of the fixed high rpm of the genset…the mower works fine with less rpm…
exhaust gas redirection is absolutely useful for nozzle protection…without this there was always a very little consume of the nozzle ss steel head in front ,with egr nothing…
another advantage of egr, there is minimal slag clinker production…without egr a clinker in the size of a lemon or also apple size can appear and this creates a ostacle for the gas flow…
ps…about coal production: when you shovel the hot coal in a barrel and the lid is not good tight, i give always a layer of ash, 2 inch high, or a bit more on top for sealing…ash is pressed, so air cannot get down to the hot coal…
Garrt, Not sure about much. I don’t know where I got the 18 idea? Specs say 3414H is 14 HP. Thanks for the correction. BTW, any tips about this engine?
I have ported the valve passages and milled.060 off of the head to up the compression. These two mods alone will add about 3 horsepower. These Kohler engines are in high demand for garden pulling tractors as they are so dependable and can be souped up quite a bit. Lots of good info for rebuilding them at gardentractorpullingtips.com.
As I think about how I can build this, I have some questions.
Assuming charcoal only, is there any reason to preheat the incoming air? The outgoing gases will need cooled so some of that heat could be used to preheat the air but that would mean I couldn’t use that nozzle opening to light the gasifier.
If the charcoal around the burn chamber is for insulation, could it be filled with ashes instead of leaving it fill up with charcoal?
My only experience now is with my simple fire, updraft and I get a pocket that needs poked to get the charcoal to settle back around the nozzle. Will switching to a down draft eliminate that need and only have to empty ashes that make it through the grate?
Also, in my simple fire, my last runs had some damp charcoal and I got a lot more condensed liquid in my filter and moisture on the lid when I refilled it. Is something like the WK gasifier uses to condense and separate that moisture from the hopper useful for this charcoal only down draft or should it (to a point) draw it through the hot burn chamber and convert to Hydrogen?
Thanks Garry. Mine is a B&S. I think Simplicity switched to Kohlers in their 3414 in 1978? Somewhere I came across a guy that laps the head and block with valve grinding compound on a piece of plate glass and eliminates the head gasket to up the compression.
No pre heating air is not necisary. We are not combatting moisture like a wood gasifier. Its almost the opposite. We add in water to cool the nozzle. The resulting steam processed is exothermic cooling the process down along with exit gases. If you are dropping water then you are adding too much water. If your fuel is wet and causing moisture, dont put wet fuel in your gasifier to begin with.
There could be changes depending on what I might find as far as an ash hatch and that opening could possibly be moved down an inch or two but the bottom of the tank is rounded.
The actual burn pipe depends on what I might find. It could extend an inch or two down into the ash chamber and the grate might extend it a little lower.
I haven’t decided if I will cut the top off and make it removable or maybe make a fill pipe like my simple fire has. Maybe both so I could access the inside to change/check on the nozzle but the nozzle could be on a plate that would be bolted on the side.
If I understand right, this should give me more than double the run time that my simple fire does. The burn chamber alone is about the same height as my simple fire and bigger diameter.
I can only burn maybe half the depth of the simple fire (from the top charcoal level to the nozzle) before it shuts itself down but that gives me around 2 hours run time.
Hi Brian,
I have this big roll of paper someone said I could have when we were cleaning out the basement of my church. Experience tells me that time spent making revision after revision on paper and cardboard saves time and grief when I’m cutting and welding.
Rindert
Made the first cut. Even though this tank had been previously used as an air tank and I put some Baking soda and vinegar inside for good luck, it’s always a little scary.
Still in the thinking stage but I found a washing machine tub that could be the ring to hold the burn tube. Not as thick as I was hoping to find but it will be covered with ashes or unused charcoal to insulate it and direct the usable charcoal into the tube.
The tube is an old stainless steel soda concentrate container. It’s about 8-1/4 inches diameter but pretty thin and not easy to weld or braze. Still hunting for a better option.
I cut the bottom of the propane tank off mostly to make it easier to build or repair. Still debating how it will go back together but have plenty to do before I need to worry about that.
I cut the tank running the generator with the simple fire gasifier and the mixed charcoal with the finer flakes and it worked good but an angle grinder isn’t much of a load.
Brian do you have any old steel car wheels lying around? You could use your propane tank as the whole unit by fitting the wheel rim inside the tank as an air jacket for nozzles.
You’ll want to find one that either drops right in with a small gap to weld, or one that if you cut a shoulder down will fit.
The inch sizes of car wheels is kind of Nominal, a 12" wheel is slightly larger than 12" at the bead seat edge.
A car rim would be good thick steel to affix your nozzles.
Is this anything like you are suggesting? The wheel rim inside the tank leaving an air gap. I only plan on one nozzle and was hoping to use it as the lighting port.
This reminds me. How can the WK gasifier get away with conduit nozzles right on the burn tube? I assume we don’t do it that way with charcoal because the burn tube is often the tank itself and we want the fire further away from the side.
Might this work? Must be a good reason it won’t work like the burn tube would melt instead of melting a replacable nozzle.
WKs don’t necessarily use conduit as the nozzle, but the burn tubes are in excess of 1/4" thick.
As far as single nozzles go I’ve been twice bitten forever shy of them. Even my 5lb weighing super thick 2" nozzle for my truck looks like a dog chewed on it after a few miles. Bear in mind I’m talking a 4.3L engine so I’m sure your generator would have a much smaller demand.
Granted I didn’t run water drip or EGR, just moistened charcoal. In your stationary setup you could do that very easily. EGR will definitely preserve the nozzle but won’t add power like steam/water drip will.
Perhaps the increased surface area of the burn tube will help preserve your nozzle.
With that setup you could make a Double Flute downdraft without needing a ring of jets or an air jacket. Just have the flutes right at the level of the top of the burn tube.
Probably just trying to over complicate this again but, so far, I’m happy with the single flute nozzle in my simple fire. Seems to be holding up better than just a single open pipe.
I still have the hexaloy nozzle that I haven’t tried yet.
I will have to see what I end up with for this new down draft gasifier but a double flute might work. I can only guess but the heat should be spread out more with the same draw so it isn’t all concentrated on one spot of the nozzle. I did find a big, thick piece of pipe that’s about 12 inch diameter and really heavy. Bigger than I wanted but I might try it anyway. The dream of putting this on the lawn mower isn’t going to happen so this will probably be for the generator.
It’s going to rain all day today so probably not much gasifier work going to happen. I did fire up the simple fire last night and cut the top off my 100 pound tank and then emptied my filter and remade the gasket. I had just been using silicone and grease to seal it but got some stove rope now so hopefully that works without needing grease. Probably going to replace the planer shavings with fresh ones and thinking about putting some rocks or gravel in the bottom to keep the shavings from soaking up as much moisture since any condensed liquids now end up in that filter. The last fill of charcoal (with the small flakes) had been sitting outside and I got a good bit of moisture in that filter and less power from the generator. Couldn’t notice it when only using the grinder but the compressor was struggling to run.
I’m hoping this down draft can handle damper charcoal than the simple fire. I probably should have just thrown that pile of fine charcoal on the compost like I was going to but didn’t want to waste it. The fresher charcoal that I grind I will leave the flakes in and only separate the dust.
Next job for the generator is probably going to be welding and that takes everything my little generator can give which is why I wanted to clean out the filter and probably put fresh, Dry charcoal back in the simple fire.
Oh, by the way, I tried my charcoal grinder with a hand crank instead of the cordless drill. I think when I build the better hopper for it I will put a hand crank on it and stop using the drill or worry about rigging up a gear reduction and motor. Worked good and I could feel if I hit a brand or a nail or screw. Seemed to make less dust since I was spinning it slower but had more power to cut through the bigger pieces of hardwood charcoal.
