Another video surfaced it was emailed to me. This one is in english. Yeah its not a vaporator like I thought. Does he have something here? I have no idea. This needs to be in a lab with a control unit to really show me anything.
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I think I know what is going on here. His apparatus is a lot more complicated than it needs to be. But basically he’s condensing water vapor from the exhaust and reintroducing it at the intake. If he does it exactly right this will increase power and efficiency by ~20%, in an unmodified engine.
If he were to increase the compression ratio he might achieve ~50 a increase. Pat Goodman modified a Ford Fiesta back in the 1970s.
This was also something the P-51 Mustang fighter airplane could do as a desperation, last ditch attempt to outrun an enemy. It’s well known natural phenomenon.
Rindert
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Sorry if this is going off topic, but this is really interesting.
That video has got me thinking. I’ve not been able to find much info on Pat Goodmans design. Any ideas where I can find more info.
Has anyone tried this on a wood gas engine? I’m thinking specifically for vehicles. The water may help with lubrication and possibly recover some of the power lost by wood gas. If it is really as simple as it sounds in the video it would be worth it to give it a try to see what happens even without modifying the compression.
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Some racers inject a water-methanol mixture to achieve the same thing, basically. It’s possible to add water injection to most gasoline and diesel engines. There are kits out there that you can buy. What happens is the water mist boils to steam in the combustion chamber harvesting excess heat that would otherwise be lost in the exhaust. Flame speed in the combustion chamber is also reduced making it seem as if higher octane fuel is being used. I think ‘the right answer’ is to mix the water and fuel. I can’t say whether this is going to help a wg fueled engine
I recommend you really understand what’s going on before you start tinkering. It is not hard to ‘hydrolock’ an engine if you have an intake manifold that has places where water can pool.
YouTube search: water injection diesel engine.
Rindert
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This is one of those jobs where it’s a good idea to study internal combustion engine theory first, before flailing around building bubblers and HHO Generators etc.
What’s interesting is I studied all this long ago, in college. I found most of the information I wanted in sir Harry Ricardo’s book The Internal Combustion Engine. The interesting part today is that I asked chat GTP to review the principles put forth in Ricardo’s book. Chat came up with a very nice summary. I don’t think it was hallucinating at all, I think it was accurate.
Thermal efficiency is proportional to compression ratio. If we have an engine with 7.79 compression ratio, it would have 56% thermal efficiency. If the engine’s mechanical losses are 30%, then we have 26% power to the shaft. That’s about what they tell us a gasoline engine efficiency is. 25%. So, where can we pick up some efficiency. One place is in the lubricating oil. Tom will like this because it is conspiratorial. When they used to put PTFE in engine oil it would cut the friction in half. Anecdotally, I used to prove this, by using slick 50 in my engines. We had a Toyota Camry that got 63 miles to the gallon going from Calumet down to Traverse City. It had a fresh oil change with slick 50. What we were doing there was chiseling away at that lost 30% of mechanical inefficiency.
A turbo charger is another way.
If you are burning gasoline, an electric fuel pump is another way.
Roller bearings instead of plain bearings.
The above are factual methods for making more shaft power with a given compression ratio.
Now for the armchair ideas
Let’s say you have an hho generator attached to your gasoline engine. You could do what the original Honda CVCC did. You could make a stratified charge engine sort of. Let’s say you jet the carb so lean that the engine won’t fire. Then add hho (Brown’s gas) until the combined mixture ignites. Hydrogen is way more flammable than gasoline so there would be a spread.
So the question becomes… Is the loss generating the electricity greater or less than the amount of gasoline saved by leaning out the mixture?
Sorry no over unity crazy hand waving here.
Although, I should ask Chat how to incorporate water injection into this scheme.
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This is the problem…slow flame speed means the mixture is still burning when the intake valve opens. I am still trying to grasp how water injection prevents this. Does the steam quench the flame?
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I am glad i found again the clips/info on what the OP was reminding me…
Paul Pantone and his Geet Fuel Processor / reactor… and all of it spin off’s…
See any similarity’s ?
https://www.quora.com/What-is-a-GEET-reactor-What-is-it-used-for-and-how-does-it-work
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Angola crude oil is really watery. did you see how fast that liquid moves in the bottle? is that fake or just not dewatered?
It looks like he might have a watershift reaction, from the exhaust heat, water plus the carbon monoxide. And the fact stainless steel has nickel in it which is a catalyst.
More interesting from google AI.
“higher temperatures and pressures generally favor the reaction rate and hydrogen production, but can also lead to side reactions.”
"industrial applications often use a two-stage process with a high-temperature shift followed by a low-temperature shift to maximize hydrogen production. "
Then thermal decomposition of carbon dioxide temperature range is typically 650-700C (1200-1300F)… Exhaust temperature are in the 1300F ballpark.
I did not look up catalysts for the decomposition of CO2 reaction.
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Free energy, … The Sun, where the nuclear reaction of fusing hydrogen nuclei into helium takes place, supplies the Earth with energy, which is naturally stored in plants through the process of photosynthesis, which represents the energy for life for us humans and animals. This again brings us to the use of wood as fuel, which can be used to power steam engines and internal combustion engines, well, the latter are much more efficient and also accessible to everyone. We have already talked a lot about the efficiency of wood gas engines, if I list the basic characteristics once again:
- the engine should have a CR of up to 1: 13, the ignition advance should be automatically adjustable with a vacuum and centrifugal regulator in the range from 10 to 40° before the top dead center of the piston
- wood gas is almost always somewhat humid, part of the moisture condenses in the cooler, and the remaining moisture contributes to operating efficiency, reduces the possibility of knocking, …
- because wood gas is relatively less calorific compared to gasoline, combustion is much cooler, which means less heat loss into the engine housing, and at the same time we have more gases in the cylinder, which absorb this heat and therefore expand and push the piston, water droplets - mist has a particularly large elongation when the state of aggregation changes from liquid to gas
This is how I imagine free energy.
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Actually not a problem. Lower flame speed in the combustion chamber allows better efficiency.
Think in terms of pressure rise. Very high rate of pressure rise causes engine knock. It wastes fuel and destroys engines.
Rindert
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If its using waste heat to create a reaction, its not free energy its a device thats making the engine more efficient. No different than Turbo its using waste energy to drive itsefl.
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i honestly dont think it worked at all. It has just enough principles to make it seem plausible but the vacuum he mentions is going to be wrong. And if it was a heat thing, the exhaust tube outside would be insulated. You have the unburnt gas and CO coming off the engine that is getting recirculated, and there is potentially some hydrocarbon cracking going on. But it isn’t free energy. More efficient probably but most of the improvements are already done in modern engine designs to reduce emissions.
And IIRC Angola was trying to establish itself on the oil market at about the same time.
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Im not saying it works but it dont break, the laws of physics.
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Understanding the laws of physics…
Difference between dry air and moist in the air.
- Moist air cools down more easy, hence more air/fuel getting in your cylinders.
- Some steam injected also replaces the nitrogen content = more energy density.
- Some steam will reform into HHO during compression/combustion = speeding up combustion/faster flame front = more power/stroke.
So many physics apply, fun and learning is endless…
Knock sensors and smart ECU works wonders… OBD2 live data can show the change in ignition timing based on what you inject ( same load, same rpm, different fuel mixtures / different temperatures )
I won’t start to define “free” energy… Sun, wind… to harvest ,it comes with a cost… all depends where you are at, what your abilities are…
Wood = a free , environmental sane, energy source… let’s drive on it …
In my cases… i use waste… waste mixed with biomass…
In the OP style reactors, the waste energy from exhaust will contribute into a kind of “transformation” that more or less benefits ICE type …
How to heat , how to cool, how to make your system works… different challenges for each of us …
Not every solution works in every situation, however the laws of physics do apply, study and find ways to have benefit of them always start with the question : “how can i measure”
For me ? i enjoy learning… ( the more i learn, the more i realise how little i know… ) and others can teach me so much more…
See the clip about water injection BMW M4
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In this type of topic to my mind there are three things going on that get inappropriately intertwined.
The concept of Free. Free: for whom? Free: from whom? I run into this with the 16 year old foreign exchange student a lot. She views Americans saying “free” as meaning no-personal cost or consequences to the individual.
While I say and use free as meaning the ability to make your own choices; willing to bear the consequences of those freely made choices.
And then the many promoting the use of free as a seductive entrapping device. Try this. It will be quick and easy. With no commitment. We will even give you a free prize. Free shipping.
Bullshit on that! The fact you stopped your Live for that one minute; become five minutes; becomes 15 minutes has a cost you can never get back.
Now as applied to actual working ICE engines . . . they must do actual work, under actual full environmental conditions and the full cycle needs for real people.
Think hard about this one.
A light air plane engine does not have to sit and idle low rpm at virtually no load ever for long. Your road vehicle Will have to, in traffic sit idling a lot for 3-4 minutes at extended traffic control points. And do this at freezing below freezing up to 110F/46C. Then be expected to quickly, smoothly deliver lots of power without any coughing spitting, back firing, dieing.
Now at a steady state power delivery cruising at 40% to 80% they both can be fuel saving tuned very similar.
Now enter the third theme. Folks with the belief that the manufacturers are evil, manipulative, and hiding capabilities from them.
The manufacturers for sure do hide and protect thier expensive to develop capabilities. From their competitors. From their buying users to force directing all service work back thru themselves.They do grossly over-promote their systems capabilities to seize market share. They do play dirty often with regulatory agencies for their own benefits. Here manufacturing scale of size and deep pocket money can make significant differences in thier delivered systems.
But ALL ultimately must play by the same rules of physics.
I read this human condition wisdom recently:
When Belief enters the room; Reason leaves.
I will always prefer Time&Use proven technologies and capabilities.
The Wife’s recently aquired 2022 Toyota hybrid engine system is developed and tuned to only operate between 1400 to 4000 RPM. The electric traction motors (two) along with the a moderate Ni-MH battery bank does the initial smooth from a long sitting stopped, power delivery take offs. Boosts delivery power for sudden needed accelerations like highway onramps, etc.
This engine only is expected to do baseline power delivery. Only actually runs a variable percentage of time. To provide engine made heat for climate control - reducing the size; space and weight of the battery pac. A full EV system, just like a large solo ICE engine system must be grossly oversized to meet all possible powerS, delivery needs.
This generation Toyota engine has a fixed static 14 to 1 mechanical compression ratio but fuels with low octane R/M 87 E10 gasoline. How? It has a 70 degree variable intake camshaft along with a variable exhaust camshaft so it can manipulate its effective working compression ratio.
It has a rather massive computer controlled exhaust gas recirculating system to control combustion temperature and pressures. No knocking/pinging like the 1st and 2nd generation systems.
It also has a dual direct into the cylinder fuel injection and a separate before the intake valve into the intake port runners fuel injection system. Each cut in/out or together blended as engineering development and real world use testing proved beneficial.
Yeah. Yeah. Cursed complex. 20 years, four generations in development. But with scale of manufacturing and fickle consumers too rapid lifestyle changing actually affordable to buy and own.
Fellows! Ain’t no magic suppressed tech, undiscovered principles, gonna save-you; save-the-planet; give you FREE no-sweating living and usages. Sweat the details. Sweat daily. Sweat often.
Steve Unruh the practiaclist
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Please elaborate on this and cite your sources.
Please understand I don’t mean any disrespect or argument about detonation. My question is “More efficient than what?”
Back to the books for me!
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Hey Bruce I don’t take offense that easily and this is just a tough subject anyway.
I would say that it is completely unreasonable to try to get the same performance characteristics out of an engine that was designed to use gasoline but now you are feeding it woodgas. Maybe you need an engine that was designed for a gaseous fuel? Something like a natural gas engine?
“More efficient than what?”
Researchers use a ‘bomb calorimeter’ to determine how much heat can be gotten out of each kind of molecule. They then use this data for all kinds of calculations. If a heat engine, such as a gasoline or diesel engine, converts a larger percentage of a fuel’s heat to usable work it is said to be more efficient. Somehow I think you already knew this.
It was helpful to me to learn exactly how fuel suppliers determine octane ratings for their products. They actually have a test engine that allows them to change compression ratio on the fly. Search: octane rating test engine https://www.sh-sinpar.com/octane-test-engine-ron-mon-method.html
Here is a link to a an explanation I wrote years ago. LINK
I hope all this helps. Ask any questions.
Rindert
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And there is the crux of the “Free” energy comparison gums-knash’ings RindertW.
Isolating one component in a to be used system expecting that idealizing that one component will result in a better system.
That a higher rated engine efficiency will lead to a better car. If it is coupled up to a better transmission, and driving individually better accessory components.
Wrong.
The vehicle . . . an electrical generator . . . a boat, a train, an airplane has to do a complex job under all conditions.
Simplest, current, real world comparison.
Currently northern hemisphere December we all need to use a lot of interior cabin heat and windows de-misting. Powering blower fans, and an AC compressor to de-humidify. Powering illumination and rains, mists darkness safety marker lighting. Powering windshield wipers.
So suck down a traction battery bank making the 90% efficient heats?
Suck down faster a traction battery bank electrical powering all of these other electrical consumers?
With An IC engine even if not the world class heat conversion capability to mechanical efficiency you will still be making farmable heats. Will be able as the engine runs to make the extra as need generated electrical watts.
As a kid one of the Pastors sent to lead our church came from up from California with a VW 9 passenger bus. Ha! Couldn’t, see to drive safely from all 7-9 wet, breathing bodies misting up the windows. He added an excellent gasoline fired forced air heater.
He then had to replace out the for warm weather 25 amp engine driven generator with a 35 amp unit to keep the battery from discharging from the 100% of the time electrical accessories usages.
Add up the additional gasoline usages and a same era Dodge/Ford van with a six cylinder water cooled inline would have made more sense.
The bottom line results, will always be the bottom line results, out in real world usages.
Those videoed single cylinder engine generators being what-ever, gaseous/vapor fueled do not sound at all even steady firing happy running. Any engine guy can hear this.
Garbage-In. Then have Garbage performances out.
You will never do a tri-athalon; bicycling endurances; a hard days wood cutting; a full days hay handling on hot dogs and French fried potatoes slather in relishes, mustards and catsup.
Steve Unruh
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LOL. I actually got to work on an electric conversion van. We made cabin heat with diesel fuel, then later, home heating oil. We just couldn’t bear the thought of wasting battery electrons to make cabin heat. 
Rindert
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The MEN article shows 47% greater fuel efficiency, over stock, with a Ford Fiesta that had it’s compression ratio raised to 12.7:1 (62% thermal efficiency), and water injection. The maximum off the shelf thermal efficiency available to me is 69%, in the DD 6.2l diesel, or the IH 6.9/7.3l diesel. Both have compression ratios of 21:1.
The article goes on to say that 20% greater fuel economy is available to those with stock engines who add the water injection system. In 1979 a stock engine had some impressively low compression ratios. I would say the 56% thermal efficiency would have been a realistic number. So that 20% is being carved out of a smaller whole.
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