It sure is important to be able to understand, at a glance, what’s going on, I think. Once things are definitely going wrong, I can tell by the sounds being made, but it’s better to have a “heads up” before its too late. (In my case, anyway).
I use 2 sets of “traffic lights” to indicate over, under and “right-on” for the below grate suction and the below grate temperature, which are the two most important variables for my stationary system. I also display 3 temperatures and 8 pressures on a 20 X 4 LCD screen.
But the “traffic lights” make it easy for me to see what’s going on from as much as 20 feet away. I use Red Green and Yellow for too cool, right-on and too hot. For pressure, I use Orange, Blue and White for “not enough”, “just right” and “too high”.
Hey Bill,
I agree something like this would be great for stationary units.
Hey Terry,
Great ideas, thanks for the feedback! I’ll work on a scrolling menu with user selectable channels.
Hey Pete,
Thanks for the video links! I really like the idea of SD card storage. How often do you have the need to go back through the stored data? What data have you found most useful to store? I think the LCDs are great for stationary applications, but do you think they would be hard to read while driving? I have a few 16x2 and 20x4 displays, and it wouldn’t be hard to convert the code. The biggest difference is the 7-segment displays use SPI while the LCDs I have use I2C. Thanks for the ideas.
Thanks all for the great feedback, keep it coming!
Hi Billy.
My LCD display is pretty easy to read, actually easier to read than reading the car radio’s LCD screen. The LCD I use is the HD44780 type. I don’t see any MISO MOSI pins and I didn’t have to select it by address. So, at least, I am pretty sure it is not I2C.
But that’s why I built in the traffic lights- so I wouldn’t HAVE to read the LCD to detect general health of the hearth. Besides, I wanted some practice with Eagle CAD and laser printing for making PCBoards.
A lot of my stuff comes from Adafruit, by the way
I use the data a lot because I am still in the learning process. Every run I have made to date has ended for some not-too-well-understood reason, so my goal is to understand everything that could get in my way of running for as long as I please.
The data most useful:
Above and below grate temperatures, which always drop as the run proceeds
Below grate suction
Pressure drop across the filter system
Engine suction
And, when I hook it up. O2 sensing, I want to use that to tell me ahead of time when the gas quality is changing.
In my case, I now know I HAVE to have a grate shaker. And I will switch to a “drizzle” feed technique for fuel (if it ever gets above zero up here)
This drizzle technique is being actively discussed on the Yahoo group.
Of course all this relates to my Chinese JXQ-10 gasifier only.
Hi Billy
A system like that would be really great on an un attended stationary system, if the vacuums get a bit high then the alarm, possibly a relay to the grate shaker, and as Matt is working on at the moment a relay to trigger an auger to feed the hopper as the temperature gets to high ?
Hey Patrick,
Yes, that’s my ultimate goal to incorporate some controls into the system. This has been met with controversy, as some believe gasifier automation will mask problems with the gasifier. Once the gasifier monitor proves itself to be reliable, there are three control points I would like to tackle: I would like to be able to trigger a grate shaker on high differential between the hopper and heat exchanger as you mentioned, then set an alarm if the high differential is not relieved by shaking. Next, as you also mentioned, is a relay trigger based on rising hopper temperature with a delayed alarm if the temperature does not fall within a minute or so of adding fuel. I’m hoping to eliminate or at least minimize nuciance alarms. Thirdly, I would like to add a servo signal to tweak the air valve position on the gas mixer based on exhaust O2. This position could also be alarmed if closing the valve excessively does not fix a lean gas mixture.
Thinking even further ahead, governor controls could also be incorporated into the controller, with alarms if RPM deviates too much. Lots of possibilities!!!
Billy your exactly on the right track here. I like the idea of tripping the hopper and grate agitators with the sensors. But these same features should also be set up to run at timed intervals with both off and on time parameters. The agitators should be looked at as preventive measure and usually once either a bridge or clog start to occur things can go down hill fast. If its clogged the char bed will crash and if a bridge occurs the char gets burned out. Fuel flow is as simple as out with the old and in with the new. If your char is not leaving the grate, your fuel up stream will continue its reduction process and it will pack. flow gets restricted tars start to form things get more restricted so and so on. To much flow at the grate then you have issues with the char burning out and raw fuel not getting fully processed and clogging your restrictor opening. Same thing with the hopper agitator too much the whole system can get clogged up and not enough the pyrolysis zone burns out and gas product stops. The fuel flow to the processes relation ship happening inside a gasifier are very delicate. So on stationary systems a mechanical grate and hopper management systems is a must. In any case either condition will need intervention as soon as it begins or your engine will stall. Then these conditions will then need correction before things can get back to running.
So with your system added you will want to set your parameters tight and let the timed system do its job. But as soon as conditions go outside these parameters then your system will take over and run a prolonged run time duration. The timed systems I usually set up to run with short duration’s but its really dependent on the set up. The nice thing about a stationary system is it is predictable. So once this is set up to the machine this system works well but its not perfect and your added systems will make it much better. If we could achieve constant fuel flow in the machine it will much easier later down stream to correct other issues.
Matt, this is the long term goal, however I will concentrate first on a simple and easy to use monitoring system. As you have previously stated, we must first learn to crawl before we attempt to walk.
Here’s a few short videos of my progress so far, as well as a link to all videos combined. Disclaimer: I suck at making videos! I tend to freeze up and loose my thought process as soon as I hit the record button, so bear with my ramblings.
Part 1:
Part 2:
Part 3:
All in one:
The last one is still processing, should be available in a few minutes.
EDIT: Patrick, inputs for oil and temperature sending units are on the list. Again, thanks for all of the feedback!
Hey Billy, I envy your ability and expertise with this electronic stuff but I gotta confess it is way beyond me and a little overwhelming. In Michigan it is illegal to text while driving so I’m glad all drivers don’t use those boards to monitor their engine and fuel system parameters. I think you are on the right track with the red lights and alarms so you won’t have to keep your eyes on it as much. Keep up the good work?
Thanks Don, you bring up a very valid point. I wonder if that’s why some vehicle manufacturers have gone to warning lights versus full gauge clusters?
I’m beginning to think this idea is better suited to stationary gasifiers with some sort of remote alarm capability so the operator doesn’t have to babysit the system. Perhaps keeping it as simple as possible for mobile units is the better approach?
Here’s a wacko idea. Can we repurpose an existing gauge cluster for woodgas instrumentation?
For example a standard Chevy truck cluster has a tach, speedo, four small gauges (and tons of warning lights). All are stepper motors electronically actuated, so we should be able to reprint the gauge face and feed our own numbers in.
Something like this:
tach - temperature @ grate
speedo - vacuum @ rails
Little 1 - vacuum @ hopper
Little 2 - pressure drop @ hay filter
Little 3 - temperature @ hopper
Little 4 - temp @ rails
Idiot lights:
greater than 4:1 ratio, less than 1.5:1
hopper over 250
grate over 1800
hopper vac over 10"
To add to that Chris, I wonder if you could tap into the info center just bellow the speedo. I have a 2000 Chevy with that dash, this is the truck we will be experimenting with. I know on earlier Cadilacs that have this info center they can display full OBD II scan code rite from the dash. On my truck in addition to the info center there is a LCD display capable of showing pictures of components. I know it shows me lots of pictures. lol
Marvin,
I have a few 20x4 displays like the one pictured, and will work on porting the code over to a 4-line display. RPM and fuel pump voltage are both great ideas. Thanks for the feedback!
Chris,
Now THAT is thinking outside the box!!! I had to do a double-take on your photoshop job, that looks sweet! Where would you mount the second gauge cluster, in a center console or something? Or better yet, convert the main cluster to gasifier use and hang a standalone speedo off of the A-pillar? Again, very cool idea!
I know I’m getting ahead of myself, but it seems the possibilities for something like this are seemingly endless! I’ll keep it simple for now and, if it proves both useful and reliable, add features.
Billy,
I have a few 4x6 older lcd displays left over from when I made sewer cameras. Are you interested in a few of them to tinker around with? I think they would be a good size for smaller stationary units.
Thanks guys, yes Billy mounting is always the issue. But a whole cluster is far easier to mount that six individual gauges. Plus you get pure 12v operation, analog style gauges and perfect backlighting at night.
Funny thought, replacing the original cluster. Maybe the gasifier gauges are more critical than the actual vehicle ones?
One thing’s sure, aftermarket vehicle gauges are far cheaper and more consistent looking than a bunch of gasifier gauges.
