Jan, your observations confirm a theory that has been crossing my mind for some time now. To use water as a effitiant cooling/filtration media, all in one compact sistem, for a cooling rail free gasifier suitible for a low profile build.
Glad to see the seals work well.
Maxs idea is allso good. The only thing that crosses my mind is shuldnt this sistem evaporate water over some time? After all, l dubt such a quantity of steam can all recondense.
Thanks guys! It´s nice to be able to get one´s theories confirmed by knowledgeable people. Lot´s of them on this site.
I think I will have to relocate my tc into the direkt gas stream from the cyclone for it to do the intended job: Mirror the the gasifier temp to avoid overheating.
Kristijan, I think you´re right about that a steamy enviroment will be able to better collect soot and absorb heat from the gas. Still the same amount of heat energy has to be shedded from the surface of the cooler to air.
How about dressing the cooler in a wet cloth - keeping it wet by using the collected condesation? Naw, I´m getting carried away into complexity 
Kristijan @ Jan-Ola!
27.5.2017; 77
You are on the track; the heat from the gas trough the steaming has eventually to be taken up by the surrounding air.
It is time to repeat: Double or tripple the cooler area… less “sprinkler” worries, instead more tube cleaning!
With ample water or not, you need the same cooling area to reach a determined “bottom” temperature…
I see this wet cloth effect when l drive in rain. Coolers are ambient temp and the performance is great.
On my idea, lll make a different topic 
Hi, Kristijan!
27.5.2017; 77y
Yes, discussed by bsoutherland on the charcoal side…
JO,
You didnt report how your other testings turned out. Did you overpull the gasifier?
Ha! Kristijan, that was two days ago. I have hardly driven since I’ll move the tc and go for another test ride. Hopefully today
OK Kristijan, here we go:
I mounted the tc in the flex pipe going from the cyclone to the condence tank only 4-5 inches upstream the previous position. What a difference! I´ve only been measuring steam temp in the tank before.
With a warmed up gasifier the reading now levels off at about 300C (572F) and that´s on medium load, 1/4 throttle, never faster than 80 (50). (Well, full throttle is usually 90 (55+) ) The tc is rated only 307C and I didn´t want to ruin it.
Even when I stopped, and after 10 min of 1000 rpm idle, the temp never went lower than 200C (400F).
Funny, I could still hold my hand on the condence tank and the top of the coolers, right before the plastic pipes, were only slightly above ambient. (About 5 s after I been running 300C.)
Conclution: To find out more I´ll have to find a temp guage with a higher rating.
Interasting. A chimney thermometer perhaps? I think they go up to 400c.
How does your gasifier perform at hard pulls? Did you determin yet whats the max pull you can afford?
You encouridged me to try a couple of hard experiments too and l am glad you did becouse l found some interasting things. I usualy drive home at about 70kmh, today l reved up and went for 90. For a while, the gasifier struggled, then all of a sudden a boost of power. 90 wasnt a problem (bare in mind l drive slightly uphill all the way home) and acceleration got much better. I stopped after about 10km, expecting overheated cooler, it was as warm as usual, if not a bit colder!
My thinking is, as l have the char reserve reduction, and with the usual lazy driveing, reduction being only active at the top, then gases pass to the side, fines accumulated deeper in the reduction. With a hard pull, gas got pulled down deaper, fitst constipated, then breathe well. If this is true, l discovered a new major advantige in turndown ratio being a lot higher thain l imagined so thank you for the inspiration!
Sorry for the highjack of your topic
Kristijan,
Your theory sounds very reasonable.
I don´t get much extra power when reving and pulling hard on the gasifier since I have only about one liter of char below the restriction. I´m probably pulling through and deluting my gas a bit when I´m pulling hard. The motor feels most responsive and alert in low load city driving. That´s probably when I have the richest gas at hand. Driving 80 km/h at 2000 rpm level road is about the limit too. Any faster and I´m slowly consuming my char faster than I can make new and I end up with a loose charbed. It´s ok to go 110% to work (10 miles) but on longer trips I have to be a bit careful. After sitting the charbed tightens some again.
Rain. Boring weather. Been out DOWing, making up arrends to town, going detours and so on. Putting down at least 100 unnessesarry miles since yesterday.
Bought a new chimney thermometer yesterday. I had problems keeping in the 300 C range with the meat probe since I moved it into the pipe from the cyclone. The new one goes up to 500 C. But it responds very slowly and doesn’t show more than 300 C anyway, even after 45 min open road speed. I wrapped some insulation around the shaft and dressed it in alu foil but no difference.
The meat probe (left digital) now serves as a air preheat thermometer. I drilled a small hole in the light port lid, put the probe into the nozzle compartment until I hit the firetube wall and the backed out half an inch. Didn’t work. It hit the upper 300C/572F in about 10 min driving. I have now pulled it out into the light port pipe another inch and manage to keep below 300C. The lid probably works as a heat sink now. To get a proper reading I will have to get a new tc here as well.
I didn’t expect to have this good preheat since I only steal heat from the outgoing gas.
J_O, did you ever experiment with measuring cyclone outlet gas temperature with AND without the preheat shroud? I am wondering if the preheat shroud keeps the cyclone hotter and lessens the gas cooling effect that the cyclone has? Did I read correctly that your preheat temperature is about 300 F after running a while? Is that preheat only from the cyclone preheater?
Mr Don, I havent´t measured the gas temp without the prehet shroud. I will try that, but my guess is it will do little difference. The air surrounding the cyclone is rather cold with or without the shroud. If I were to have an exhaust preheater as well, it would be a different story.
My preheat temp was 300 C. That´s 572 F. The cyclone preheater is only the first stage and will raise the temp just a little bit. Around the entire gasifier housing I have a second propane tank, slightly larger, creating a 1/4 inch void where air svirls upwards before entering the nozzle comparment.
Hi Jan!
How hot does the outside of the gasifier get? I know you have a preheat mantel there, and a bucket? insulation but how much heat manages to escape?
Yes preheat schroud + 1cm insulation + a paint bucket outer shell. If I run less than half an hour it’s still close to ambient. On longer trips i gets a bit warm but I can still hold my hand on it, WAG 50-60 C.
Definetly char in the condensation tank. The result of a full dump and a full cyclone. I’ve been a bit sloppy about maintenace lately. No harm done though. I saw no high vacuum or difference in performance in my 100 mile trip yesterday.
Makes me wonder though how a hot (sock) filter would react to glowing char. I think I’ll stick to the wet side in the future.
The hotfilter has no problems with glowing char unless there is oxigen involved. In such case, the soot burns off the fiberglass filter. Happened to me once, but the fabric was intact. Found a sootless spot with a bit of white ash near the filter lid.
Hi Jo and kristijan may i ask if you have any good ideas for a hot filter canister with removable lid too check the ss screen or mesh.Thanks.
Depensd on what you mean with good.
Cheap? Reliable? Fast?
Sorry, just tryed cheap. Squere box, 4x15x20" with a simple screw on top and silicine seal. Worked good but far from fast (10 screws) and reliable. Yes, it worked flawlwsly for me but culd be improved.
Edit: it did leak at one time so not flawless
I wounder how long a small ammo can would last with insulated lid from inside before the filter mesh.Or big ammo can with fully ceramic inside with tin .Thanks.
