If you actually live out Rural with chickens (or pigs); and dogs - - - - there IS NO WASTE foods scraps.
For a few years we went without the chickens.
Then I trench dug-in all of the vegetable scraps onto the garden plot year around. The in-ground soil active took care of it jimdandy.
And this on-location/in-place can all be done with chickens and dogs down to a medium suburban lot.
Everything just does not have to be such a big-damn creative deal if you are just doing it for yourself.
For the “world” “others” all-use, is where it always goes too-big, too-complex, too-engineered, too-regulated complex.
tree-farmer Steve Unruh
7 Likes
I know what you’re saying. I’ve seen chickens eat just about anything and feeding them isn’t as complicated. I do love my dogs too much though to feed them donuts and pizza 
1 Like
I like Dr. Joseph Tainter’s hypothesis on increasing complexity. The idea that we solve societal problems with ever increasing complexity (infrastructure, laws, policy, government, enforcement, justice, punishment etc…) is a great way to boil down to one word the problem facing most of the West.
He’s right that “complexity costs” and there is a trajectory of diminishing returns as a society gets bigger, and more layers of government, legislation, enforcement, and of course; taxes to pay for it all - are piled on top of one another.
Eventually, society stops moving forward, even though the costs keep rising just to maintain the status quo.
At this point, a guy had better have been planning for this day as the costs of living will be skyrocketing, yet your standard of living will start to decline as an overtly top heavy control system sucks the society dry of resources. To me, this means abusive taxation of the basic necessities of modern life will become the norm.
I’m also a fan of the theoretical economic model “The Laffer Curve” which states correctly (IMHO) that government revenues are $0.00 when taxes are levied at both 0% and 100% - real revenue does not follow the tax% charged over 40-50%, and drops unpredictably to $0.00 as you approach 100% taxation.
As a result, well before a society maxes out their tax headroom, their revenues start to drop due to taxpayers avoiding the higher taxes, working less or not at all, and leaving the jurisdiction altogether.
I’m not a doomsday economic meltdown type of guy. But if I take what both Arthur Laffer and Joseph Tainter say, I can form a realistic, believable (to me anyway) economic crunch in the West that could happen in my lifetime. Both these theories are 100% correct (IMHO of course), and we can actually see the proof for them out there right now.
I believe that conventional energy (heating, Hydro, Gasoline) in all forms will really start getting hammered tax wise over the next 20 years, at least in my area. That’s one big reason I’m here at DOW 
.
5 Likes
You and I are on the same page. I’m so glad I found Wayne, Chris, and team here at DOW!
2 Likes
California recovers the gas from the landfills. Ca. thought it would be a great idea to convert green-waste to electricity. Los Angeles gave everybody a green barrel for green waste. The FEDs permitted a green-waste to electricity plant. The plant was built. The green waste dried out rapidly in the warm Ca. sun.
The gas company came in and told the plant; they would sell them gas at whatever price it took to undercut the cost of collecting and processing the waste. They converted to gas. There are no more federal permits for a new plant so, the green waste goes in the landfil.
Southern California is at the foot of the mountains. Over the millenia, the mountains washed down to the sea. They left behind zillions of tons of sand and gravel. The gravel was excavated to build the cities. These ENORMOUS gravel pits are being filled up with trash. SoCal sits almost entirely on this alluvial soil. THAT is expected to make our upcoming earthquake MUCH worse.
Mother Nature bats last
2 Likes
Will, the weak link to all of this is; we import $1.5 billion a day of stuff that we don’t actually pay for. The rubber meets the road when exporters no longer accept our treasury bonds as payment. We MUST import oil and, unfortunately for them, Venezuela has lots of it.
2 Likes
I used to live in Huntington Beach, the whole area there is built on sand. It would just liquefy and start swallowing houses if a big one hit around it. So sad about the plant. Should have had a requirement that went with the permit preventing that sort of thing from happening or stop with the permit crap.
Sounds like you listen to the x22 report 
I occasionally read the X22 reports but, I tend to read stuff that is more technical and has more references. I live in SoCal and have a place near the Oregon coast. If the San Andreas fault doesn’t get me, the Juan de Fuca fault will.
1 Like
He is a bit doom and gloom! I just finished James Rickards book, the road to ruin, excellent if you haven’t read it. I was in the Landers quake if you remember that one. 7.2-7.6, knocked over almost every chimney all the way up to Big Bear.
Amen to that! Wayne’s simple drive around videos recording farm chores and road trips left nothing to my imagination regarding the real world viability of woodgas. It was real undeniable proof of what was possible, and I think the future will bring even more mph and range as folks experiment. They were the reason I started thinking wood gas was more than a fun little experiment to run a mower or genset for a few minutes.
I think I’ll head over to YouTube right now to watch Wayne do a little more driving down the “big road” 
4 Likes
Apparently LA has a composting facility at their landfill. if you live in LA you can come get free compost.
In our state, we aren’t allowed to put green waste in the trash either. But we don’t have the free compost… 
1 Like
I’ve taken a SERIOUS look at using compost to heat water, since I have unlimited water at my place in M.P. Oregon. It actually looks quite good.
Yes, L.A. has lots of free compost. From what they tell me, you get tons of compost and pounds of weed seeds. There is a big pile of it just a mile from here that they replenish when it runs down. I can’t speak from experience though.
Due to a lot of mechanical problems with my trucks and equipment, I am behind this summer.
I have met a gentleman that frequents his cabin in the woods up here. He is a Vietnam vet with lots of life stories my wife and I enjoy listening to. He has a field that has about 20 acres of blueberries and raspberries. He allows us to pick as much as we want. So yesterday, my wife and I visited him to help him with projects he wanted done. She spent a half day cleaning his cabin I helped him with outside projects. He then surprised us with a steak dinner from the grill. We had a great day.
Today I spent the day making a countertop for a couple that moved up here this winter but spent the whole entire year of 2017 in the hospital until the first of August. The countertop was a complete surprise to them. A different neighbor donate some seasoned 2"x 12" rough cut White Pine and his wood working shop. I made it with a live edge and delivered it to their house this evening. We stayed for some grilled hotdogs and conversation. Another great day.
17 Likes
It is cheaper then the 2 bucks a bag we have to pay around here. Weed seeds you either pre-treat by heating it to sterlize it, or you just weed a lot for a year or two. Organic matter holds moisture, so it is a huge win in cali.
I thought the Pain Mounds looked great and fairly easy.
Puxin just sent me some mail/spam updating me on their latest build…
Hi Jason:
Here we update our part and finished installation picture for PX-ABS-260M3 biogas plant, It is designed for medium and large farm, treat waste organic waste/waste water.
Output: Biogas 200m3 per day and organic liquid fertilizer, it can produce 300KWH of electricity per day or can be used for cooking purpose.
Below are the pictures
And yes Steve, pricey! This is for a lot of waste though.
Steel cement form, building, piping, pumps, and gas storage bags:
TOTAL USD US$48,987
SHIPMENT COST pay by buyer
1 Like
I was really hoping to steer this thread back to it’s purpose of things that are happening in our lives this summer.
5 Likes
good reasons for being behind Bill. That’s why we’re here. Good show.
3 Likes
I agree with Bill, lets get back to Summer 2017, things we are doing in our lifes right now.
Bob
3 Likes
Not to continue to hijack the thread but 50k is significantly less then the 1M for an installed turnkey farm sized system (which may have been bigger), but figure 100k by the time you are done, then it just depends on what you get paid or save. If it is 3c, you are looking at a 30 year payback. or 50k and 3c 15 years, or 50k and 6c, 7.5 years. In a dairy operation, you might get faster payback if you do peak shaving with it because of how the rates work for commericial electric supplies. Or in like california, or the CAISO market, you could sell a contract for it on the open market during the morning or evening peak times and get significantly more money.
1 Like