Absolutely.
I was just talking about nozzles for the simple fire design.
1 Like
I plan on doing so later in the month. Money is tight right now.
Tantulum?
Sorry Kyle l just dont get it. Why make a simple fire and put something worth 800$ and titanium and tungsten etc that you dont eaven know will work? I think the whole simple fire concept is make an emergancy fuel sorce fast with minimum cost. If we talk about a gasifier that is ment to produce gas days upon days, that is a different story.
If l had that extra 800$ l wuld build a nuclerar reactor rather thain a simple fire 
3 Likes
Thats whats getting me hung up on the imbert design. The nozzle and general wear and tear from the really high temperatures and the increased complexity and cost. A fema seems like it would last longer but the tar issue is the biggest problem. Charcoal will reduce that a whole lot. Is it possible to get tar free gas out of a fema with filtering and charcoal? would I filter it when hot or cold? I can think of several cheap materials and filter methods that could be done. A car air filter is a good final filter for dust atleast. Wood chips and sawdust are commonly used as a filter. Dust seems like it would be easy to get out. I mostly want the tar and water out and before it gets to any fine filter mediums.
l will say it again. If you have good quality charcoal, you can do anything int the whole wide world with it and it will NOT EVER produce tar. It is that simple. Not possible. Just ash and a bit of charcoal dust.
I guess you culd use a fema but there is no need. A charcoal gasifier is the simplest thing on earth. A conzainer filled with charcoal and a nozzle on the bottom. No nead for any fancy gasifier. That is it.
But as for the cost of material, you can make a simple fire for ~ 10$ if you have a bucket and a pipe. But runing a generator for hours upon hours, you will have to make a gasifier built for that. And perhaps the overall cost will come close to a Imbert. Make a good wood gasser and you dont have to get your hands dirlhy with charcoal makeing.
As for filtering and cooling chargas, there isnt anithing simpler. The gas comes relatively cool (i drive with gas temp 20°c higher thain ambient when all is warmed up, with no cooler) and dry. Like l sayd, an old sock can filter it.
2 Likes
Keep in mind if youâre going to use a lot of fuel⌠charcoal making removes well over half the fuel value of the wood. Youâll handle a lot more raw material per KWH with the charcoal gasifiers than you will with wood gasifiers.
With a good gasifier design, tar isnât an issue. Of the hundreds of wood powered trucks on this website, I donât know of any that have made significant tar. Most of them are using Wayne Keithâs design.
A gasifier is like any other tool. Invest in a good one, and it will last for a very long time, and work very well. This saves you time and effort down the road. A cheap tool may do OK for awhile, but will need more frequent maintenance, be harder to work with, and its useful life will be over sooner.
9 Likes
Iâm going to be rather blunt. I really am trying to help you out, even if I do come across as harsh.
Stop what youâre doing and go back to spend time on learning/UNDERSTANDING the very, very basic concepts/mechanisms/theories behind gasification; the various types of gasifiers; and how various factors affect what happens in the engine and visa versa.
Once youâve done that, THEN start working on what might be the best plan to accomplish your goals. Your only real options for succeeding in gasification are:
-
Pay cash for someone else to know everything that needs to be done to design/build/run an appropriate gasifier. @Matt at Vulcan Gasifiers Vulcan Gasifier can happily sell you a âturn-keyâ (put wood in, turn a key, use the power generated) system, but I think that his cheapest turn-key models start at over 10,000$ USD. I donât know if Arvid @tritowns and his International Supply company still sell complete systems (and lessons on how to run them); same for Stephen Abbadessa @sabbadess and his company NSR (Almost all money; very little knowledge needed; the âupfrontâ hard work is taken care of, but still needs a fair amount of ongoing work to keep things going)
-
You can learn enough to be able to copy someone elseâs proven system for an applicable engine and build it (one still needs to learn a lot, but very doable as shown by all the members here). Several offer plans for free/cheap (comparatively). The most obvious example being the @Wayne Keith system with proven applications/versions for a Dodge 8L V10 Ram, Dodge 5.2L (318CI) V8 Dakota, and a medium sized tractor, as well as âeducated guessesâ on how to change the design to fit many other applications. Other examples are @glgilmore and his âSimpleFireâ and âGilmore Gasifierâ (both charcoal); @k_vanlooken has several proven charcoal systems. This is obviously the suggested option. (Moderate amounts of money needed to get tools, supplies, materials; moderate amounts of knowledge, which is slowly learned by lots of reading and discussing with others; moderate amounts of hard work)
-
One can learn massive amounts of info/engineering/science, (either by having others teach you, or spending a LOT of time/energy/resources/sweat to learn yourself, such as @Wayne did over the period of at least a decade or two) to design a working system oneself. (Still have to have money to buy/have tools and materials; massive amounts of knowledge; and massive amounts of hard work.) I am incredibly grateful for the likes of @Wayne, Imbert, Gary Gilmore, and all the many other true pioneers that chose this option, and have put in that effort and allowed the rest of us to walk forward on their shoulders. My hat is off to them. Thank you, all. o7
3 Likes
Yup, we still offer systems.
Shipping is stupid expensive from up here though.
1 Like
Ha.
Kristijan, I cannot disagree with you. If you will notice, I didnât put an $800 nozzle in a simple fire. I priced one. When I learned what it cost, I ruled it out.
Someone else is trying the titanium nozzle (Bruce, I think). So, I am interested in how it works out for him. Scrap titanium is actually not all that expensive, if it holds up.
My point here is that the simple fire design is probably the cheapest and easiest way to get started in gasification. For those who like to learn by doing, or donât have the patience or money or skills to construct a more sophisticated gasifier as their first project, I think it is a great option. And, it is entirely practical to run a generator from it, provide you come up with some reasonable solution to the ânozzle problem.â Based on what I have seen, Daveâs solution is reasonable and cost effective, and transforms the simple fire into a basic gasifier that is real world usable at low cost.
However, as a second or third project, I would heartily recommend and endorse some of the more sophisticated designs that can be seen on this website, including yours. And, for wood gasification, I would definitely recommend Mr. Wayneâs design (working on one of those, myself).
In fact, of the designs being discussed, the only one I would categorically rule out would be the FEMA design, due to the very high probability that it will make tar and gunk up your engine.
2 Likes
Joshua - I am no expert. But from what I have picked up so far, it is virtually impossible to âfilter outâ tar. The whole trick is not sending any to the engine in the first place. There are two ways to do that. (1) Make a charcoal gasifier, since the tar is already removed or (2) go with a design that can âcrackâ the tar by suitably high temperatures, such as the WK design.
1 Like
Iâm gonna probably go with kyle on this. I will continue my research. I have loads of free time and little money so: research research research until I find the most ideal cost effective solution.
Black iron pipe is fairly cheap. Out of 50 bucks worth (10 feet) and 6 inches of it at a time I should have more than 2000 hours worth of run time. That comes down to 2 cents an hour of run time.
A washable filter would reduce the run cost even further. I did look into the prices of tungsten and tantalum or even titanium. I donât think the cost per pound is that high, its just its not a common material so the few that carry them online charge a ton to process it and make what you want. Some refractory brick could also extend it but i never had a lot of luck with stove brick. a year later it tends to break but it might just be what i get is low quality. Iâll give the simple fire a shot. Might buy a cheap harbor freight engine or the smallest champion generator i can find and just see how long it lasts.
2 Likes
I think we talked about titanium on the nozzle topic. Not good at all if l recall right.
I tried looking back on the nozzle thread last night to see if I could find any results on Bruceâs nozzle. Either I couldnât find them, or he hasnât reported them yet.
My best guess is that titanium wonât be much better than steel. But, you never know until somebody tries it.
1 Like
Correction - Maybe it is David rather than Bruce who is trying the titanium nozzle.
I found some discussion on the following thread.
Apparently Gary tried one, and didnât have good success.
1 Like
l cant remember either. l know there was a discusion.
l work with titanium and l can tell you this. Not nozzle material. Althugh it has amazing chemical inertnes, it loves to oxidise at high temp. We have filters for wery strong acids made out of titanium but when you just scratch it with a metal object it sparks like a firecracker.
2 Likes
Other than the nozzle does the simple fire have any other parts that wear very fast? How long does the firebox or bucket itself last?
1 Like
It was me⌠I chickened out and threaded the titanium tube to take a tig cup in front of it⌠Only 2 hours on it so no test results worth talking about yet. it seems intact so far. Busy working these days, sorry
David
3 Likes
Well perhaps l was mistakeing! You use wxhaust intake on it?
1 Like
My nozzle is 4 vertical holes in thick-walled copper tube passing through the reactor and sucking air from both ends. Copper because it has been used successfully for crude iron smelting.
âA suggestion by Dr. K. Smith on the possible use of copper tuyeres historically led to some experimentation with this material. Several tuyeres were forged from differing thickness of scrap copper plate and tested at a workshop in February 2005. ⌠During this workshop, Sauder, Williams and McCarthy worked with a tuyere forged from 1/4 inch thick (about 7 mm) plate. The forming process created a conical shape that varied in thickness from roughly 3 mm at the air supply end to about 7 mm thick at the smelter end. ⌠The interior diameter was approximately 20 cm in the smelter. This copper tuyere proved extremely durable. the high conductivity of the copper allows it to radiate away the heat its working tip is exposed to.â
I hope to have my MG running on this nozzle by the end of August. Donât hold your breath, I previously thought I would have it going by the end of May. I fear that there may be a good reason that we have not seen copper nozzles in gasifiers (other than war-time scarcity). Time will tell.
2 Likes