MGS S-80 Sawdust Gasifier Resurrected

Small Engines
#91

Hey Kevin the real appeal of a woodgas pellet-mo-bile is the fact that in many places ready made woodpellets are just a stop and bag away . . . .
until they are not.
Out of season. Not in the prime home heating season. Wood home heating pellets not so common in cheap natural gas and the have many-refinery areas with super cheap propane.
Then you’d be down to using 2X, 3X expensive Tragger type BBQ pellets.
Worse trying to use unregulated for ash and moisture content animal bedding pellets.
And . . . all pellets bought by the bag have a very unfavorable energy per dollar ratio in comparison to pump gasoline and diesel.

Ha! On my Apology to MEN topic I kept waiting for someone to ask me, “Steve! You were there in the original MENS 1970’s and 80’s!! Why did you not get into woodgas then!?”
'Cause gee man in, Fall/winter of 74-75 gasoline never actually totally dried up. You were just restricted to only 10 gallons a week. Had to creep along in long lines (wasting gasoline) to get it. In the later 1980 gas-crunch, again never actually totally dried up. Same-same 10 gallons a week. Only then on the vehicle licence plated numbered odd/even alternative days.
So . . . I was systematizing out how to most easily get my 10 gallons. Expensive five gallon Class Three safety can walking up past the lines filled between the large full-sized tanker cars jocking for position. Later 80’s odd/even I made sure to have a vehicle with each. Had the front plates off them, taking the apropriate one with me and my can on my, “Sorry. Out of gas.” walk o’shame.
(Ha! And I was only asking for half the allowed. Two cans would get you refused.)
Then . . . .how to get the most travel out of my actual 5 gallons.
1098cc MG sedan. ~180 miles.
Datsun 1200 sedan. ~170 miles.
1300cc Datsun pickup. ~125 miles.
1478CC Saab 96. ~135 miles.
100cc Hodaka motorcycle. 125cc Kawasaki motorcycle. ~250 traveling miles.
10 speed road bicycle. Save the gasoline for the 15 mpg firewood hauling pickups.

The one-button-iers been watching too many imagineering Back-to-the-Future movies.
Not say in you MattR. Unless you want to own this.
I am saying the Mr X California fellow long left anything bulk wood capable behind for $60K please-all systems. I asked him back in ~2007 why he trialed with easy walnut shells and not wood chunks or wood chips.
He said, “Steve. Wood is hard for us to get here (in Berkley CA). Has to be processed down with reluctant labor. Walnut shells I can get truck loads delivered to me.” And so then onto to automated auger feed systems. And only fuel particle sizes and consistencies to meet augur requirements. The tail then, wagging the dog.
Even my good friend Mr Y now moved onto Urban plastic wastes systems.
Oh, I know well why . . .
Over 20,000,000 US/Canadian Urban lots households out dollars the mere now maybe 4,000,000 true Rural households any, and every, day. The Rural households the ones with the actual brush and on-property woods. Ain’t got restaurant cooking oils Rural. Ain’t got endless supplies of packaging plastics Rural. Got dirt, water, sunlight and green-growing.
All History says: follow-the-money. Add steps. Then make money at each and every exchange step. And make sure to build Dependencies into the steps systems. Must have a super special high purity catalyst. Must have a 8-10 channel digetal logic controller. Or must have a tax/use authority license.
The true Henry Ford Way. Sell/addict the car to-the-many for zero profit. Make the money on the replacement parts and will-needs services. Make addicts, wanting, craving. Then get them to be your make-governments-move, lobbyists.
The re-discovered again Gates, Jobs . . . now Google, Amazon, Facebook ways.
“The people must have 5G cell phone services! The people are demanding data-dense capable high speed fiber optics into every household!” Why slow intake with printed inputs? Plug them in Matirx-like mainlining.
I never asked for 4-6 megabyte pocket pictures. Did just fine with kilobyte pocket digital pictures.
Ah-h-h-h. The megabyte density is for their info/data farming of your usages, “to enhance your experiences”.

Very interesting thing I am observing. The four and six year old girls are more fascinated and engrossed with story dense old 2D flat simple cartoon stories, versus sensory’s overloading 4K presentations.
Short answer is people like to cook challenged from scratch in pot and pans. Using their own creativity and imaginations.

S.U.

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#92

Hey Mr. Kevin, stompage into kiln/stoves to make use of the heat while making charcoal. Charcoal to run small generator. Have done plenty of that. Did a Mother Earth News demonstration/presentation a few years back on the topic.

“Clean, Sustainable Home Electric Power… 8 Hours After the Grid Goes Down, Using Only Local Materials” If it is not in DOW archives I have the pdf still.

Have been steering my efforts mostly toward homestead scale energy and biochar soil improvement since. May be doing a good sized off-grid woodworking shop soon.

Still have a woodgas dodge but probably not much longer ;~)

All the best!

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#93

Ok thanks Doug Thanks, Plenty of projects to go around, its been a good experiance learning too drive from wood as fuel.Enjoy your time homesteding offgrid projects. All the best too your camp allso.

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#94

Hi Steeve happy homesteding, enjoy the miled weather while its here for a while.

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#95

Right on, Steve! Yeah this is a hard market to please!!

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#96

Steve; I see a lot of high MPG vehiles in your past, but where did a woodgas powered vehicle fit into the history? TomC

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#97

Hi TomC,
As I explained above in the 60’s, 70’s, even up trough the early 2000’s woodgas for engine power was never an interest for me.
I am sure you will understand this well; and it matches WayneK. explanation of his awakening wood gas possibilities.

Younger’s here will not realized we’all by the 1960’s in the US were far, far removed from the concept of making our own engine fuels. Farm alcohol was a 1920’s, 1930’s thing in the US and a Canada. Hammer to death by the Big-Oil companies backdooring the illeagalization of personal use alcohol making. Even after all of the legal hoops jumping subject to an added on $1.00 a gallon use tax.
The name of the game for us come of age post WWII was stretching pump supplied fuels for different goals.
Shear horsepower-speed.
Use stretching in hours and MPG’s.
Later: minimal emissions.

Anything I did back then by my late 1990’s (approaching Y2K) was with my evolved matured reality values not of much use.
Gasoline, diesel, propane, CNG and I was still 100% dependent on a whole chain of layers getting it.
Fall/winter of 74/75; and then again in 1980 showed well that dependency chains do not stretch. They whip-back hurt. They snap. They break. For reasons far, far outside your control.
The sun only shiles but a small percentage of the the time.
The Wind worse than not blowing, storm-gusts too hard killing your equipment. Micro-hydro; the same. Feast. Famine. Destroyed.

I make no claims for being 100% energy independent. This is actually silly and near impossible to do. The anti-tech Unibomber was a dodo insisting on making his letter-bomb switches by hand from found scrap. He had to tech-ride an 100’s year evolved bicycle to scrounge his scrap. Had to depend tech-culture shed/cast-ways for that bicycle and his switch making materials. Gee. Dude. Go to a corner grocery/hardware and buy the damn switch. Bone out a cast off refrigerator, microwave oven for door switches!

Every day I do buy and use some Big-Grid electricity every single day. The consumption/use cost is still amazingly low. The conform/permitting buy-into their system is amazingly HIGH. $14K to change over one of the houses from and old in-ground tanked fuel oil furnace to an central electric furnace. $4,000 was just for the Public Power system engineering and permitting/inspections. NOT for actual hardware or installations labor.

Every week I do have to buy-out vehicle gasoline.
Once a year have to buy-out a bit’o tractor diesel.
Once a year buy-out a 20 lb. bottle of camping stove propane.

Yet now any day, any time I can, and will replace any of these with woodgas now.
This capability in addition to the 80% heating with our own property grown wood is the F-R-E-E-D-O-M.

And freedom is not free. You work and sweat for it.
Not working. No sweating, you are just mind-masturbating with yourself.

I am speaking out so stronly on this topic as it was began by a fellow with access to lots of mill waste made sawdust.
He was asking for specific information on a developed evolved sawdust-to-engine grade-woodgas system.
More than topic drift has occurred.
DISCcounting of Ray Rislers systems works has occurred.
Occurred by I-know-better’s; and I-heard’s.
No. You do not know better. You ain’t put in the verifiable operating hours to know better. You speculate. You pontificate.
This is insulting of that man lifeworks.
I object.
I will continue to object until banned.

Steve unruh

Ha! Ha! And TomC the very best gasoline stretcher I had in that time era was a made-in-Wolfsburg(Germany) 1st generation Volkswagon Rabbit. Four door full hatchback, super practical. Smurf-blue. 35-38 mpg even while leadfooting. That rascalie Rabbit just had too many fool-you, Fool, reliability fleas. ALWAYS having to work on it. And it only really like expensive VW dealer parts. S.U.

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#98

Hi Steeve U if you have some info on why sawdust dont work , i would like too see it, or are you saying its unpracticle too use sawdust for moble fuel supply.No body here claiming too have supream knowege of sawdust transportation fuel, I bought german made 300 d mersadies, lousey desiel fuel milege, the 3500 diesel ford trucks get better milege than than that Hoax of a car.

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#99

Mr Steve, I don’t know if you point at me with the sawdust story. If so sorry, I certainly don’t know anything about woodgas. I was interested a few years ago, but Dutch John kept me off. Things have changed now, I think I can build a hassle free feeder for the gasifier. So I might want to know more about gasifying sawdust, that is all. In this story I am the last guy that will say anything about the quality of someone elses work. Certainly not meaning to insult anyone. Sorry if you or anyone else took it that way, that is not how it is meant. Now, I understand why you end with: no apologies. You’re right, no need for that. Thanks for being direct.
My quest is the same: freedom. However, I don’t have the slave-feeling and sure don’t want the be a slave off some machine. Had that in the past, got rid of it and build my own plasmacutter. I can cut whatever I want and more important can repair it by myself instead of an expensive mechanic.
Gasifying should go the same way for me. As far as I can see, the Missouri stands out above anything when it comes to sawdust. So why build? Better buy and there are still a lot of things around it to organize.
Still, then there is no experience. Read a lot last days and for now cant decide what to do, the missouri build (that is not the latest design???) or start with Mr Wayne’s design and use the wood on the land with the choppper from Jan? At least I have to build one myself to get the gasifier feeling, otherwise it wil indeed be

Ha ha , you are right on every point, so why apologize?

Thanks everyone, DOW is very helpfull to clear things out for me. Learned a lot.

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#100

Hi pellot power, the pellot power seems like it might be easyer too use than sawdust, as they have used for generators, acouple gasers here have driven from pellots, ben trying too see how saw dust or other size wood shavings might be able too use, or how too best used sawdust, please keep us posted if you deside too tackle the sawdust chalenge. Lots of pros and cons between wood chunks and sawdust feeding fast or slow, how ever it may be tar free. Good luck with the sawdust feeding work.

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#101

Sorry again, my name is not well chosen. It should be dustpower or something, or just Joep. Pellets are a dead end in many ways.

That is something I don’t want to tackle if someone allready did. Better buy than stupid build. The rest I can handle, but designing a sawdust gasifier is not something I will achieve in this lifetime. Nobody has to tell me how many design hours there are in for example the Missouri. I can guess but it will always be to low.

As long as I have work, there will be free sawdust for me. If I am unemployed, there will be time for chunking wood. That wouldn’t be bad either, it is very relaxing. Chainsaws run on a battery here, very quite. So whatever life brings, it’s ok.

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#102

Hi joep, have you any slab wood available there, i plan on useing slab wood this summer, it a little light being mostly cotton wood, the slab wood for pine is usually quit a bit thinner, if its too thin i through it in the home heating pile like Wayne K . The cotton wood slabs loose a lot of bark, and thats pita too collect too burn for home heating fuel. Learning too line up the best bio mass fuel. Fun Fun, enjoy your projects, Have Wood Will Travel, is a very nice Book too get building strait away, while learning a tone of the varibles and building ideas.

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#103

Could start by having a man in the back of the truck with a chainsaw making cookies. Next he uses an axe to chunk the wood. Next he feeds the chunks into a small grinder of sorts and into the gas producer. Once that is working keep replacing sub-units with new ideas. I admit that it is an interesting and challenging project. Before starting on a project like this I would go into the forest and set on a nice stump and ponder the whole scheme.

I have mine all sawed out. It will be tiny and on wheels. I hope to take it with me. :wink:

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#104

Well said Mr. Steve.

The greatest challenge in education is teaching those who don’t know what they don’t know what they don’t know.

Woodgas is easy after a few thousand hours of practice.

Totally opaque to those without such experience.

We do well to learn from those with tens of thousands of hours of experience like Wayne and Raymond and you, and Larosa, lets not forget about Mr. Mike.

Sir Wayne said it well when he said “woodgas is like riding a bicycle”.

Can’t get there without real world experience regardless of study and pondering ;~)

Got to skin a knee and elbow or two more than once.

Helps to be encouraged by friends showing how easily it can be done. We may get there when the time is right.

IMHO one of the greatest challenges of those who know, is hanging in there -without flamIng out? Pun intended.

Keep up the great works! All the best.

Yours,
~doug

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#105

Hello Brother Doug .

Real good to here from you sir and hope all is well in the Show-Me state.

Yes I have found that operating a gasified vehicle is kinda like learning to ride a bicycle . If one reads all the books , does all the math and watch all the videos and then gets on the bicycle for the first time my bet is he will not ride off without a few wobbles and most likely will hit the ground a time or two.

After some practice he will learn how to make the BALANCE ADJUSTMENTS on the fly and not even notice he is doing so. Also he will learn how to watch and think ahead of the bike making adjustments unconsciously, like standing before hitting a big bump. ( certain things can cause a PITA ) :frowning_face:

There is no substitute for hands on real world experiences.

On the bright side , once you learn how to ride the bike you never forget :smiley:

PS

Doug I am from Alabama but I truly like your state’s saying .

" Show Me State " got its nickname because of the devotion of its people to simple common sense. In 1899, Rep. Willard D. Vandiver said, “Frothy eloquence neither convinces nor satisfies me . I’m from Missouri. You’ve got to show me .”

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#106

I Gess i am just a city kid, Slow learning stooge. Back too wood chunking its more fun anyway. No good news for sawdust. Any body tryed auger feed chunks, or a sort of auto feed chunks while driveing. ? :blush::relaxed::grinning::turtle:

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#107

You may NOT forget, gut you surely loose proficiency. My point. Take the ferry over to Mackinac Island where "no automobiles " are allowed. Pick yourself a nice spot on the hill over looking the dock where the ferry comes in. They rent bikes for people to tour around the island. It is a “hoot” to watch people who are retired and haven’t been on a bike for years to work at getting the hang of it again. TomC

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#108

Hi Tom Collins, I havent been too the Mackenaw bridge in 50 years, all i remember is the big wooden fence walls part of the island.

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#109

I am serious, in a way, about having a man in the back etc. Need to start some where. Next eliminate the man. Out of the box; remove the auto pilot stuff from a crashed discarded Tesla. :thinking: Install auto pilot in truck. Now we eliminated the man driving and you can run the equipment in the back of the truck. :rofl: :rofl::disappointed_relieved: :joy:

I am more serious about setting on a stump and thinking this trough. Maybe too many operations on the truck? Could a stump grinder work to reduce logs? What does the chips/dust look like from a stump grinder?

This is how the creative mind works.:partying_face:

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#110

From a common sense standpoint, I think this makes a lot of sense to me. A gasoline truck does not have a fuel refinery in the back, why try and make a woodgas truck that does? I do like the idea of mechanizing the fuel production, though, but seems more logical to make it stationary. That also lets you get the benefits of scaling up. Working on this batch of chunks for Jakob makes me realize just how much work producing fuel is without the right machinery. I hope that someone with more mechanical aptitude than me builds something (and posts pictures).

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