Yes…next time I will move back quicker. The chuff was pretty darn BIG and it chuffed the lid up and down a few times. If I had perfect gas would the lids blow off?? I haven’t seen this happen on a video yet. If someone has please send a link. I don’t want to kill anyone or have to make a trip to the hospital. If this happens again I will try to turn on my camera phone and stand back to make a vid. I was very close when it first happened. I know about the dangers of opening the lid when running.
BTW… I had a large thumbs-up from above the first time I ever fired up the gasifier…Then a double thumbs-up!
Also, Gasifier explosion video …in case you haven’t seen it.
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Hi ya down there in the State of Jefferson GordonO. (you all eastern fellows just look that up - it’s regional!)
Just went back and reviewed all of your put up videos - ah! ha! Now I see the Tracker. Yes Don Mannes been the woodgas DOer on these so far - Terry LaVictorie will be coming up fast now too.
Nope you do not want to valve tar up one of those now relatively rare expensive overhead cam engines. I owned one of these “Suzuki” OHC fours for 14 years. Sweet engine. The engine to woodgas learn on would be an easy pushrod engine, cheap, easy to work on; and get parts for. Yes. Mule/learning engine needs to be about the same size as your intended running engine.
My advice would be the same as Dan Coxes in his video response. YOU need to draw or blow pull that gasifer much harder, hotter. Unless you stack up blowers and throw a LOT of blower watts power at it you will never duplicate the actual flow pull and then heat of a loaded working engine. And that constant blowing/flowing simulation will not duplicate the actual engine type pulsating draw of a four cylinder engine. It was very common factory for them to use single. dual/twin, three and four cylinder engine pulsations to operate for mild flows pumping purposes. Six cylinders and eight cylinders is when they had to add in the belt driven forced air flow pumps.Much better cylinder pulsations overlapping then smoothing things out.
Hmm.Let me pretext this by saying Gordon I am now 62 years old now. look a lot like you - just more worn from the early on trichlorethlene, too many years of leads, battery acids and VOC’s. I started woodgas reading at 56. A year on that. Spent a year then puttsing with charcoal, and such until I began actual woodgas engine running. I wasted a full half of those first two year over-thinking it all. Because . . . . that’s what the geek reading said I had to know first. Bogus B.S.
Woodgasification for motor fuels is a series of continuous overlapping thermal-chemical steps.
The geeks say you have to understand the chemical part first and then they mostly ignore the thermal HALF.
Well Gordon I see in your shop a woodstove pipe attached to a wood stove. When you can heat that sucker up hot enough to never have visible smoke out the pipe; never smoke up the door glass; never have creosote build up in your chimney pipe THEN you are getting FULL tars conversion to heat power. THAT IS what you want out the tail end of your gasifier after the grate. Except: now with at least 70% of the woodstove heat energy now converted into engine power capable woodghasses energy’s instead. Yes chemically transferred to the engine.
Now the upper part of the woodgasifier above the nozzles will be worse than the worst woodstove pipe you’ve ever seen. That’s normal. Your last run video now showing upper tars dripping. Norma, woodgasifer. That’s good. You lower paints now starting to heat discolor. Getting there.
Without the BenP three layers of internal insulation; or the WayneK layered lower metals insulation YOU WILL BE RUNNING LOWER EXTERNAL surface hot when you are making good motor woodgas.
First show me you willing to engine run with your overlayed collection of ideas over the evolved WK and BenP systems. And then I and others can point out how these two different systems evolved to better first burn the wood to make the heat energy. Then turn that THERMAL made energy into IC engine fuel chemical energy potential.
You can do this with what you have with some woodfuel tweeking and operator time experiences.
E.g…now that you have tried wet/green wood . . . now have experienced the THERMAL drag onto the system. Now try some very dry wood chunks. Fir, pine or spruce - HOT n’quick energy releasing, but sooty prone. Then scrub oak- - not so quick energy release hot, but Long energy release with now much more ash building up. DRY, dry woods without the system thermal drag.
Operate it hard and hot until you do burnout/crack something internally then on rebuild ask for suggestions.
I’ll be saying remover the lower hearth fins where you WANT to keep IN heat.
Lower your grate a bit for better flow. Round form shape the grate to even up the flows (gasses, ashs, heats and chars. Open up those holes to slots.
None of this helps you when you are under-pulling the gasifier to not run THERMALLY hot enough.
You already have the boom-boom experience.
I know this all sounds cheeky, smart ass from me. Four years and thousands of words and posts with the chemical side of it I now know this is a myopic failure approach.
But I only live ~6 hours away. Retired. And up to seasonal road trips. Much. Much easier to show the THERMAL approach to it hands on. Then you get the sights, smells and feels of it.
i haven’t had to clean out my 26 foot tall chimney in 16 years. In-laws next door I used to have to clean three times a year for clogging. Now three years stove operating MY way no cleaning needed.
Good as I am . . . on firing up have a sneaker pitch pocket wood piece; or the wood fuel stack burn settle wrong and I can soot up the glass fronts. AND THAT chimney lays on a coating.
Mr Wayne with at least 10 times the woodgas running engine time than any here on his last tractor system tared up his engine valves needing pushrod repair rushing a charcoal bed settling in.
THIS is why wood for fuel will always be 75% operator dependent.
You NEED a fireman/stoker.
You woodstove Gordon. That’d be you.
Geeks can only ever get close to automating it, cutting out the human element, by grinding up good natures perfect wood into standardized, boring, uniformedized muck reformed into somthing very uniform. Gray, bland woodfuel hotdogs. Soylent Green for for gasifiers. Feed your WOOD gasifier good wood chunk steaks and chops.
Regards
Steve Unruh
Hi SteveU
Great stuff. I’m right there with ya on gettin her hot and ready. That is my plan tomorrow. I can get
1X1 8’ long at Rogue Valley Sash and Door for free.I burned everything out today and gonna clean her up
in the morn for another run. I’m hoping I dont crack anything. I am pretty hopeful that the grate is
doing good. No real ash to speak of and no build-up in the holes. I don’t have a grate shaker yet. I don’t
have a plasma cutter for the slots (or even a tig). The air flowing over the air ring and the space below the
air ring to the smaller square grate seem to be letting the grate breath good sofar.
I have been strugglin with a torch,grinder and a mig. I just moved
back to Oregon in June from 14 yrs in Hawaii, and had to leave lots of tools there. 4.5 grand to move a
7’x7’x8’tall Pod container from the Big Island to Grants Pass Ore. Too much for me so I sold and gave away.
Damn fuel companies have made it to expensive to move. I have big grumbles I could go on…$^%#@_!
I 'm glad you are so close and like road trips. You are always welcome to gather around the fire here.
I have spent many hrs reading about woodgas and never really understood some things. When I got Waynes book
I was already involved in an Imbert build. I changed my holes and went with cooling fins without
understanding the flow of the targas that TomC and you explained.I’m in a bit of a bind, but I’m goin for it
til I break something like you said…sometimes things workout… I have more thoughts but gotta go. Gordon
Ahhhh. I’m back Gordon, In line with what Steve U is telling you, may I suggest that you get an old Kirby vacuum cleaner ( that is what I use so suggest it. Some other old model might work. I “think” some are even using shop vacuums, but what ever, you can not have the gas go through the electric motor. The motor and the impeller have to have separation) Ok, then you get a “light dimmer” and mount it in an electric box with a double plug socket. Wire the box so the hot leg of the incoming cord goes to the dimmer and then to the plug socket. The other leg can go directly to the one side of the plug socket. Now by plugging your vacuum into the plug socket, you can control the speed of the vacuum and the amount of vacuum. A vacuum cleaner will pull way more vacuum than you can pull with a belg blower. You can make any kind of pull you want on your gasifier. Oh I might add, I got a Kirby (old upright) for $8 at the Goodwill store. I have the Kirby built right into my gasifier with the dimmer switch mounted in the bed of the truck and a 50 ft electrical cord mounted in the bed so I use the Kirby to start when I pull out of the garage. You can also use the Kirby to blow into the gaifier. TomC PS. A machine shop would be nice but I’m like you I have a mig and stick welders and a set of torches — you can get’r done with just that.
Man, I guess I’ll add to what Steve said. At the nozzles you are going to “burn” charcoal. Above ,where you have the wood, you are going to “radiate” heat ( kind of like the sun radiates heat) That radiated heat first boils off the water in the wood which can go up and collect on the lid and the sides above. As the wood gets closer to the nozzles it gets so hot that it drives off all the gases ( who know what they all are other than one is an abstract bunch of chemicals that are called “tar”) All these gases are pulled down through the hot flame of the nozzles and get changed into volitol gases that will burn in an engine. Of these it is very important that the “tars” go through the flame/heat and get broken down into good gases. If the wood is too wet, the water and tars will quench the fire enough for the tars to go through without being “cracked” or if there is not enough heat at the nozzles because of slow movement through the restriction, tars will get passed with out cracking… By the time the wood gets to the nozzles it is all charcoal or carbon. From there on down starts the reduction zone. That is when the CO2 (carbon dioxide from the burning charcoal) gets changed to CO ( carbon MONoxide which burns very well in an engine) The oxygen atoms in the CO2 get to flying around so fast in the heat that one of them runs into a carbon (charcoal) atom and forms two CO atoms, which is what we want. The restriction is the part that speeds up the movement of the gases so the O2’s ( oxygen) bang into the carbon atoms. That is my simple non technical explanation. Pyrolysis ( wood to charcoal) Oxidation (burning at nozzles) Reduction ( creating CO from the CO2) TomC
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The state of Jefferson, they have been persistent. Discovered that a couple of years ago.
Gordon, Tom brings up a good point that I may have missed in other above posts, do you have a monorator or some type of internal gutter to catch the condensate before it drips into the fire tube?
TomC.
Thanx for the great explanation of how the gasses move and react with one another. I understood this “slightly” before I started cutting and welding. My Imbert /WK idea was an uneducated guess but I was thinking more char reserve the more gas to reduce quickly for acceleration or an uphill pull. Having the nozzles so far from the hotzone kinda messed up my original design. Originally, I was going to just run a generator with an Imbert that would burn almost anything to make sure the kids and granbabies (6 girls) would always have power and heat. Then I read Wayne’s book and caught some sort of bug that I can’t shake…I want to run any ICE I can find. Hence my multiple port size reduction tubes. I was reading some guys here talk about port reduction controlled externally. My brain has been designing this too…I decided to stop confusing my brain and start welding metal…(see I’m all over the place).
I can understand you perfectly Tom. Bill Steve. Thanx for taking the time to help. I’m going to upload this before I loose it again. Sometimes this site or my connection here reboots and I loose my writing ino into the void.
TomC,
Great idea on the Kirby vacuum idea wit a dimmer switch control. I just ordered a 240CFM and a 170CFM bilge blower ($23 each) but they will come in handy when I convert my car to run 100% woodgas. (12V) I’m going to pull instead of push air right now because too much air pressure pushes smoke out of my lid because my lid design is flawed. The suction helps with lid seals and with a Kirby I will be able to really get her hot and bothered. I’m single so I must be good at gettin her “bothered” atleast. I 'm gettin her ready for a hot burn today. 6 AM here and I’m gettin primed with coffee. I’m sure you are right about the wood moisture quenching my gas conversion. I did get burnable gas even with wet/green wood so I guess I’m doing something right. I found some Ben Peterson “gasification 101” vids that I missed somehow and he went through the chemical exchange well too. I have a much better idea of what I need to do now. Still debating on whether to cut my nozzles back and go WK or extend them down and shoot the air into the hotzone like an Imbert. I 'm going to run a small load of dry today the way it is.
BillS
I just moved back here from Hawaii (14 yrs) and raised there as a kid (60’s ) and the State of Jefferson is a breath of fresh air compared to Hawaiians trying to make a KIngdom in the most beautiful place on earth. They can’t get any 2 Kanakas to agree on anything important…I was just tired of being hated for being a “white male”. They love the white women but…Too bad it is such a racist world…I don’t have much patience for being attacked for being “white”. So. Ore is a clean breath.
I do have a good set-up for capturing the condensation. I have an inner sleeve (removable) that holds the wood 1/2 inch from the Hopper outer shell and the condensation can run from the lid to the bottom of the hopper and out. I have ceramic wool and hydraulic cement trough angling down to a drain hole for insulation. Seems to work good sofar. Works so good I need a better reservoir. No monorator yet.
Gordon
NW Woodgassers GOLD MINE
Found a place where I can get 10’ lengths of KILN DRIED remnants. I bundle-em up and cut 1 1/2" lengths with the chainsaw like a log. FREE! No need to build a chunker this winter.
At the mill where I worked we would cut edgings like these into 4" lengths and sell them for $4 a grain bag. I replaced the air foot switch on a whirlwind upcut saw with a trigger that cycled the saw when the end of the stock hit it it. You could push 5 or 6 lengths through at a time and it would fill the bags pretty quickly. I also used to square up big strapped bundles of edgings with an old dolmar with a long bar when they made too wide a load to move around with the forklift. I had to hold on tight to the saw. I would think processing a lot of with a chainsaw might get stressful after an hour or so.
Nice looking Tracker Gord. how many miles on her and is it an automatic or 5 speed?
DickT
I know what you are saying about the stress of cutting bundled loose material like this…Seems if I bundle extra tight it’s not too bad…It’s very fast wood prep
DonM,
This lil Tracker is a 5 speed with 107 K miles. Got such a great deal on it! Looks just like new inside and out when I detail it. Only prob I’ve had is my driver side window assembly came apart yesterday in the rain. gotta fix it today. It’s amazing to me you got a gasifier to fit in the back of your Tracker. Beautiful job! Lots of thought and time I imagine. I’m going to run mine on a small trailer behind me so I can leave it to run a generator at home too if the power goes out. I built mine for a generator at first til I read Wayne’s book. Now I got the H1DOW virus. ( no know antidote)Symtoms :
Bloody and burnt fingers, sleep deprevision,inability do think of other things clearly, may be found standing in front of wood pile w/ hypnotic stare-drooling…
Benefits :
Stronger upper torso,weight loss, cure for ED when spotting free wood.
This is a new video of her warming up and running hard.
I’ve been trying to post but no luck. Lets see if this works
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Yuppers, flare looks alot better.
Sorry about the vacuum, seems to be to close the heat.
Fans/Vacuums… If you are going to keep using them in suction mode, much more cooling before them is necessary.
Some video of the fans “remains” would be helpful. I don’t think it’s tar, most likely just melting down.
You getting closer!
TerryL
Looks good Gordon. I was told to feel what you think is tar. If it comes off by wiping your hands on a rag, it’s just soot and moisture. If it doesn’t wipe off, it’s tar. I suspect Terry’s right. It’s not tar and it’s just too close. I burned up a couple of them the same way.
I haven’t been able to comment for almost a week. You are right TerryL. I need more cooling if I’m going to run a 4 cyl. Tried 4 different fans and as soon as I turn up the heat…fail… I’m going to try to post this. Keep getting “forbidden”. maybe I write too much.
Hi everyone,
I have a video of a start-up. Very fast gas and then a BOOM! It’s after I turn out the lights so it’s really neat looking. I need some diagnosis. I know I left the lid open when I lit the gasifier. I did run the old gas out first, This is a cold start-up w/ good charbed.
Ok …I finally got to sleep after I realized I turned up the vacuume and left the inlet door open 1/2 way. Extra suction had to come from somewhere…the lid. boom. well spring works good. Many operator errors in that video.
I caught the picture maybe for a better assessment?
I would definitely suggest to pull it completely outside. This incident didn’t blow hot char around the whole garage, but could have. Is it almost ready to hook up to the Suzuki?
BillS,
I agree pulling it outside would be a good idea. Been raining off and on, plus I need to build a good pneumatic tire dolly.
I have a VW motor that I’m going to run first as a test dummy. Then I need to build a better cooling and filter system before I hook it to the Tracker. Still testing my design. I still don’t have a grate shaker yet but I have a good idea to solve bridging and shaking at the same time. I still haven’t cut my nozzles back 1 inch.
I seem to get a fast flame from a totally cold start with no smoke as long as there’s char established. I’m waiting for my thermocouple to arrive.I want to check pyro chamber temp. overall I’m pretty happy.
I’m going to finish getting VW motor ready today. Maybe first run.