MY Grid's Gone Down - now what do I do!?

I think I should point out the fact that if there was a massive solar flare/high-altitude burst EMP attack capable of taking down the grid, we don’t need to worry about making electricity because none of our electronics/motors/generators would survive either. EVERYTHING fries, not just the transformer network.

The only things still running would be a handful of old mechanical compression-ignition diesel engines (have fun starting those without electrical starters) and maybe a bit of hardened military equipment.

EDIT That’s not to say that preparing for other emergencies/grid-down events (e.g. The hacker attack mentioned) isn’t a great idea. I’m just saying that in order to prepare for EMP/solar event, you need to get seriously low-tech with your preparation options.

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debatable brian. would a nonconnected unit in a steel shell case in a steel roofed building fry? Roxul insulated conductive insulation? not sure maybe someone knows…

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Would a massive solar flare effect my plow horses , plows and wagon ?

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It seems funny to me that so much of the prepper’s focus is on making electricity. When my parents were young, they didn’t even have electricity, and got along just fine. Now though everyone acts like the end of the world has come if the grid goes down for more than a couple hours.

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An EMP is a pico-second burst unless it is caused by a nuclear bomb. A CME is a long duration, low-power evcent. A CME took down hydro Quebec in 1989, Chapter 1 : A Conflagration of Storms
The Carrington event in 1859 burned down telegraph buildings, Chapter 1 : A Conflagration of Storms
Neither a CME nor a EMP has the power to burn out a starter motor. I have a few old diesels. I don’t expect to lose anything but, maybe a voltage regulator. High voltage transmission lines act as an antenna and burn out whatever they are connected to. Power companies have FAST shutdown procedures they can use in the event of a BIG CME. A big CME can travel at roughtly 1 million miles an hour. There are many satellites monitoring the sun. Theoretically, they can give us quite a bit of warning.
I checked military trucks to see if they had any shielding for the cpu under the fiberglass hood. They have none.
Given adequate warning time, you could wrap sensitive equipment in a Faraday cage. Aluminum screen and chicken wire should be adequate. It’s not like it has to be waterproof-sealed. http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/files/2006/wiseman_zap.jpg
When the CME hit Quebec, “23 heroic capacitors” saved the Eastern U.S. It’s all a matter of bleeding off the energy.
Researchrs did a huge study of 10,000 stars similar to ours. CMEs like the Carrington event are not unusual.
The big power transformers take a long lead time to build and they are not built in America.
Terra is a giant capacitor with solar flux constantly charging the upper atmosphere. Thousands of lightning strikes equalize the charge difference between the planet and the upper atmosphere. We also have HUGE current flows between Terra and Sol. This is accomplished by the Birkeland curents.

I’ve had much correspondence with people who are prepping. I ask them, what would you do if you had NO preparations?
THAT is what the vast majority of people will do. Plan accordingly.
While a big power interruption would be bad, the critical aspect is the refinery. Any interruption in deliveries of diesel fuel brings everything else to a stop.
If you should get everything prepared and have a perfect setup, the local sheriff will claim that he needs your setup for the common good. Same for your truck. Woodgas has the advantage of not being user-friendly. Give him your truck and he will soon abandon it. Just make sure that you have a spare starter motor.
I wouldn’t put too much faith in GOV to save you; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X79gNYpYO3k
BTW, you can still weld with the grid down; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obEAOUC0VXc

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Very true, my old boss used to say; people in the city are not going to stay in the city and starve when there is food in the fields here.

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Andrew; I think you made a good point, but also overlooked some things. Very true that the simpler a system is, and less technology dependent, the longer it will be reliable / serve. Just as Wayne points out, horses and old mechanical equipment won’t crap out leaving a person high and dry. I like my 90 year old mechanical trip plow, still cuts sod, no hydraulics to worry about and all that goes with it.

On the other hand, a bit of electricity makes a huge difference in quality of life, electric light being the biggest one, people used to die hunting whales to bring back barrels of lamp oil.

Farm and transport machinery are the other great achievements, living without that would be grim.

The real risk is what the majority would do unprepared and surprised when the technology and transport web is disrupted.

Garry Tait, MB

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Fellows some good clarifications here (thanks WilliamB).
Some topic drifting.
The more we talk about the 500 year to millennium events the more we turn off the suburban-grid-dependents that is the focus of both the “American Blackout” video and T.Koppel’s “Lights Out” book.

I was never an 80’s survivalist : “need my 7.62 semi-auto battle rifle . . . my 45 acp pistol . . . and my bunker . . . and my mondo four wheel drive . . .” yada, yada, yada.
I am NOT a prepper. Prepper means preparing for an INEVITABLE event.
Just pick your particular inevitable event. A book(s), magazines, prophets out there to validate and feed greater, your greatest fear - just as long as you do buy-in and keep sending them money.
“gotsta’ for sure have enough bullets for my assault rifle, enough bandages and enough beans”
Oh yeah. Now the bullets have to be 5.56 and 9mm. (since they ARE woosie weaker then you will need Many, MANY MORE - why they are smaller, lighter - so you can carry more of 'em)

These both leave out the old people. The children. These do not have a plan for past one-two years when the beans do run out.

Having, owning LAND. Actually living on that land. Grow what you can. Trade, barter, services-sell for what you cannot grow, produce yourself. Tax man is always going to want a cut of your DOings. “Caesar” is owed his due. We all do travel on Caesar made roads and such. WITH your own land; ability to make/grow/produce (including power) any percentage of what you do need and consume that puts you then in the control seat to then tell the Caesar’s of the greater world just what he is due from you.
In an apartment.
In a condo.
In a suburban tract-house ass-over-tea-kettle in a recycling mortgage you are never really free. Never independent.
I’m not the only man/wife team worked hard years to get back to this land based freedom and independence.
Mr Wayne and his wife.
John Stout and his wife.
Mr Pepe and wife.
David Baillie and wife.
Now Bill Schiller and wife.
Just to name of a few I KNOW live the same way, for the same reasons as the wife and I.
These all folks I’ve come to know who live where they live, how they live for the joys of it! Heart-homes.

To pizza live. Cake-eater live. Ready always at best to bolt out to a “bug-out” place is an indication you just do not get it at all. You are lost. Your soul is lost. Sold off cheap to ceasar needs and demands.

I’ve learned in woodgas to recognize these bank-house folks in many ways.
As soon as you put a dollar per killowatt in your thinking . . . THEY own you, still.
The joy should be making your OWN power. Declaring your own freedom. Traveling Your own road to independence.
As soon as I hear, let me make woodgas as easy to use as any another refined Cesar-supplied fuels . . I know you are still lost. Actually using woodgas for power . . . IT . . WILL. . TELL . .YOU . . WANT . . IT. . WANTS . . TO . . BE.
It wants to be used directly made. As least fooled around with as possible. It is picky, fragile. Heart warming and rewarding. Needs, wants, a light hand. Think a horse. Think a dog. Think a fresh made banana split with whipped cream and cherry on top. Eat now. And enjoy.

I started this topic to give the majorty logging onto the DOW who are apartment, condo, suburban tract house “occupying” a sense of urgency to Do something.
Even suburban tract-house dwellers CAN make themselves events generated grid-down 90 days self-sufficient for minimal power needs. That is taking freedom from fears. The is taking life control. Have to plan. Have to invest - REAL efforts…Longer than 90 days then you will need to go full time rural living.
Apartment/condo living. Stop dreaming. Start scheming to get suburban as a minimum. Or better, rural living.
Things you can do. Make a planter boxes. Make a rooftop garden. GROW things to eat.
Many things like chickens, livestock, wood for heat, wood for power you cannot learn without getting down sweaty, dirty. You do not have the space. You will piss-off your neighbors. Your landlord will evict you
You can travel out and make friends out in the rural, before ever moving there. Go out and help the elderly living there with their firewood. With their critters. Be quiet, hush mouthed. Learn from them while you can. They have wealth to give in life experiences. They will not be available long for this exchange.
Later with your own earned dirt. On you own. And then YOU responsible, you can try-all. Fail mostly - thats freedom. And hard learn there IS needful reasons the rows are planted in a site/climate dictated direction they had gently tryed to tell you. Reasons why bibs are the best at some places. Trousers, belt AND suspenders the best in others. All wool in others.
The books, the magazines, the screeching, preaching prophets always try to fit their “best” to ALL. Wrong. Deep bedding here in the rain-forest will get everything you plant bug infested eaten up!

Dinners calling, by
Steve Unruh

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The reason that I listed out those I did above is because I know that they all space heat with wood.
Grid-down, power out ain’t no big deal with no electric needed space heat all along. Gives hot water. Gives light if you want. Cooked hot food.

What did we do here before Y2K?
Nothing much. The folks still alive then. Pa’ Paul did go out and buy a yellow kerosene can and have it filled.
We did tend to keep the vehicles 3/4 to full up.
Woodshed always did back then have a rolling 2 years of wood in it. Always had a year or two of canned foods. Back then four chest freezers full.
Y2K, IF bad-happen was to be in mid-cold-winter. Freezer food be good for at least 60 days. Sharing out to niegbors would have made sure no wastage. Then March, April come we still had cows. One cow at a time community shared out. Spring deer and rabbits.
Ma’ Pauline was the supreme 3rd generation gardener. She would have shared out seeds. We’d have fresh garden greens by mid-May. More from then on. 500-700 canning jars. Wood heat processed.
60 gallons of AG diesel on hand for the sipper JD tractor. ~200 gallons of furnace oil in the underground tank. 200+ gallons of stove oil in the greenhouse oil stove tank. I’d’a belted up my cast iron Electrodyne truck alternators for power. Barter cow meat to a townie with a fuel-less RV for the batteries and inverter by summer time for the next wet/dark season. Been lots of vehicle 12v bulbs around in fuel-less parked.
Rural farm with woodheat, everything just ain’t a big deal. You already living a Net-less, “Use it up. Make do. Or do without” as just a normal lifestyle.
Ha! Ha! Maybe no mail service or banking to then not be able to mail off property tax payments.

That was then. This is now. Folks are done and gone.
We no longer have and hold the old quantities of dino-oil fuels. Ha! None to attract beggar attention.
Wood is work. Want food. Want shelter. Just like was said: you-want? You wood-sweat, then we share.

As I’ve said my Wife is a travel about to location and homes Registered Nurse.
The state licensed homes are required by their licence to maintain a back up generator. Why? Refrigeration for medications and foods. Power for oxygen concentrators. Power beds. Beds with air flow pressure relief mattresses. Recharge power for electric wheel chairs and other equipments.
My dear Wife has referred me out as a generator-man. Paid to go weekly. Startup, exersize, and oil change on many differet systems over the years. Train and assure ability to use independent by all shift caregivers.
Old aircooled flat heads reliable unless COLD weather. Cranky then - easy to flood out. Spark plug wet. Noisy. Stinky. Gasoline fuel hogs.
Newer overhead vlave slant-cylinders more cold weather tolerant. Quieter. Cleaner exhaust. Use ~25% less fuel for the kW/h of use.
Old military surplus once durable Wisconsin/Onan were all worn out. Cranky to get running warm or hot. Worn low comprwssion cranky to keep loaded running. Blue oil exhausts. Leaky worn oil seals. Impossible to get parts for. I learned to refuse service responsibilities for these.

These new suitcase inverter/generator types are new to me.
Will be fun again.
My OHC Honda mowers have proven another 25% fuel efficient over my previous Techumsh/B&S OVH types.
Same rotary blade 5 hp needed once flathead supplied, to overhead valve to now overhead cam Hondas uses 50% less fuel to do the job. Variable timing easier to all weather start. Cleaner exhausts.

I imagine all of my named suburban family grid-down, firing off, being the only power for their neighbors and having dead vehicles fuel contributed for a bit of recharging power, VCR playing time, after dark lighting, meds refrigeration storage.
Imagine that.
A half full glass.

Steve Unruh

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11 am. -16 C. Sun starting to show for a couple of hours.

Nordic countries very dependent on electric. Propane not very common. Almost only camping gear use.
Below link shows Nordic electric power market - MW-flows, current prices and production sources. Note major oil producer Norway’s advantage: Close to 100% hydro electric production.

http://www.svk.se/stamnatet/kontrollrummet/

EDIT: Kärnkraft (purple) = Nuclear

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In honor of all you ‘wood sweater’s’. I ran out of the seasoned Oak wood I brought up here. It’s going to be in the single digits for highs this weekend and almost 30° today and tomorrow. So I found some dead Birch trees nearby and brought them down.
It’s ‘grid down’ everyday- what a relief.

I have a small stove so 8"-12" chunks work well

Now for a late breakfast.

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Are you in the small cabin shown on your web site? Is it insulated and sheetrocked?
Should be cozy.
Start cutting next winters fuel now. Have it split for spring. Stack it in a big open area for sun and air flow.
Enjoy!

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Yes, it is the cabin I have in my thread. It is very cozy and provides what we need. The well was the most important after the shell was built.
I may have pulled the trigger too quick on moving up here this past summer but I have no regrets.

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Agriculture in America is a complex system of converting carbon energy and solar energy into food energy. Previously, much of the energy came from draft animals. Any interruptions in the delivery of carbon energy will disrupt this conversion.
Manufacturing is the prime value-added industry ahead of AG, forestry, mining and fishing. So, while the city is a center of the prime value-added industry, it is distanced from the other prime industries. The city is VERY dependent on transportation for the things that it lacks.
As agriculture is ever-more automated, the rural areas get ever-more inpoverished. The poverty rates are much higher in rural America. http://www.energeticforum.com/241618-post282.html
The rural areas may be poor but, at least they have good dirt. Manufacturing is going the way of AG in that automation is reducing the demand for human labor. California is a big manufacturing zone. 25% of all welfare cases are in Ca.
America is adding $ 1 trillion a year in debt so, this can’t go on forever. 51% of americans receive a check from GOV. 102 million of working age are not in the labor force. 49 million are on food assistance. (Shadowstats) Unfunded liabilities are at $ 212 trillion (Kotlikoff).
B of A said that there is a 100% chance of China crashing. Brazil has crashed. There are about $ 40 trillion in emerging market debt that are imperilled by this. The derivatives are multiples of the $ 40 trillion
SO, we/they can claim that a crash isn’t inevitable. Keep in mind that ALL fiat currencis have crashed. All democracies have crashed. All empires have crashed.
We were given a democratic republic. With the 17th ammendment, we took the first step to becoming a democracy (mob rule). When Nixon closed the gold window, we took the final step to having a pure fiat currency.
We are in a credit bubble. Reinhart and Roghoff wrote a book about the credit bubbles that were created during the last 8 centuries, http://www.reinhartandrogoff.com/
John Tainter wrote, The Collape of Complex Societies. The Rise and Fall of Societies by Chodoroff is avaiable as a free pdf.
History is our guide. Martin Armstrong has ALL financial history from the last 3,000 years written into a program that runs 23,000 variables in real time with artificial intelligence. http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/
GOV demanded his program and he told them to go take a hike. They threw him into prison for 7 years for contempt.
Prepping is for those who have a good grasp of history and a good understanding of the government.

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Prepping to me is land,tools, knowledge to use them, food, and some gold,and silver, with these and basic skills you’ll have a chance.

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I have a somewhat different list. I tell people to skip the gold. If you are in a rural area and the grid is down, there are going to be few things that you need that are actually available. 1/10 oz. coins might be useful but, other than that, silver makes more sense.
Character, foritude and knowledge come first. They are followed by water and food and a few friends. Land and tools and seeds. Diesel fuel is up close to the top of the list. Drain some old crankcase oil out of a diesel and add it to your diesel fuel to give it a good color. label it “drain oil”. Leave the drums lying around casually. JP4, kerosine, diesel 1 and diesel 2 , the whole country runs on diesel.
Motion detectors are necessary. Geese are great.
I was in Hesperia, Ca talking to people. They told me that the sheriffs dept plans to blow the bridges to keep the mobs from L.A. coming over the mountain on hwy 15. I was in Myrtle Point Or. talking to the lady at the coffee shop. She said that the farmers have “enough fertilizer to blow all the bridges between Roseburg and M.P.” Other people that i talked to plan to block the roads.
The best plan is to help all the good people that you can to be self-sufficient. That way, you won’t have them sneaking into your barn to try to survive.
My area in Western oregon is over run with deer. But, if a family is living in their car, what can they do with a deer? I built a 3ft. by 6 ft. undeground pit bbq. All that it costs to cook up a deer is some wood. The meat isn’t actually bbqed. it is steamed. Even the toughest meat comes out tender. It is cooked for about 17 hours. I have a wood cook-stove and I built a few wood-fired water heaters. All that I am missing is a woodgas truck.

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JO your link page does near 100% google translate over to English.
Seems like the four eastern Baltic countries are in a world of hurt having to be energy importers.

AND since I started this topic North Korea been 5.1 earth shaking faking a mini-thermal-hydrogen bomb.
Ukraine just released that a pre-Christmas grid-taken-down occurrence was the result of an activated, embedded “blackenergy” hacker program. Finger pointing to Russia.

BillS frozen dead wood is good wood to directly burn. One year we had enough F.teens, low enough, long enough freeze-down I trialed burning ~30% moisture frozen solid wood. Interesting it did better with small frozen loads onto the hot char bed versus bring inside to thaw first. Give it a try.
Resurching inverter/generator run reliability a fellow posted up a 30 hour failure video you might find interesting.
On youtube users name of desertdualsport, “30 Hour Damage Update”.

William and Al,my favorite set of books is by a fellow named Jared Diamond.
“COLLAPSE: How Societies Choose Fail or Succeed”. Follows up on his Pulitzer Prize winning, “Guns, Germs and Steel”. And then a later follow up book.
He approaches this from a resources depletion angle with many documented examples and lots of real human story interviews. Great historian.
Dumb shit guy though. He lives; and has his family live in L.A.
Yes in the middle of a friggin’ desert dependent on robbing water and energy from three states.
Obviously he is asking for a top-down progressive changing.
So . . . I will search out and read your references.
I am already aware of the events you listed. Family silver is old stashed from the FDR take-away days. Kennedy/Johnson had thier ways with the sandwich silver degrade.
What I will be looking for in Rienhart, Roghoff, and Martin Armstrong is where, and how they personally have chosen to live for themselves and their families based on their writings. Are they responsible men?
Al Gore; versus Chris Martinson, wife and family moved out rural now. With gardens and chickens.
If you believe it - Do Something Personal About setting up for you and yours. Set an example. Just like woodgas. Some use-proof. Others preach.
So are they New York city living? Chicogo city living? Asking for a top-down regressive changing?

And this leads into, “Am I my brother keeper?” Nope. I am not.
I was 17 years old before I acquired my first brother. Older sister married. Just turned 21 when my folks took in two american Indian boys as foster brothers. Then my younger sister married. Then I married my wife. Two brothers with that package. Up to six then. Then my youngest sister married. Seven!
Only one lives in-state close enough to heip. We been helping back and forth for decades now. Of the others: four doing great for themselves and thiers. Need no help. One a ex-marine recovered alcoholic, much loved, with an always invitation to come and stay. And one died under a bridge stabbed to death by a fellow, out of control alcoholic.
So I still do not consider myself as my brothers keepers.

My ten joining neighbor families . . that is a different story. Five live just like we do. Rural. Independent. Free and proud of it. We already swap propties watching when gone. Critter tending as needed. I’ve been called to free a oops mistaken leg trapped Bald Eagle. Helped pull calves. Head thumped a toxic weed paralyzed Named goat, needing dome. Then baried respectfully with a cross marker that I’d made up. Have three more than our own dogs buried up in our hillside pet cemitary. Been asked to be a back-up kill-shooter come hog slaugter day when the neighbor Mr get called out on his river tug job.
Point is we already have active share resonsibilties relationships.
The other five adjoining neighbors are one acre lot owners. On previous family farm properties.
WE swap garden produce. Dog escape adventures. Children growing responsibility learning lessons.
Shit hit the fan. Long term grid down, and we will be sharing out everything we got with these neighbors as needs arise.
It is this ongoing investment in others that I do not see in the preppers.

Got one house in town bought up by a couple of three guys in the 2008-10 down turn for cheap.
They only show up in their mondo big tired prepper vehicles a few times a year.
Any one of us old gray haired heart-walker guys tried to say howdi sidewalk walking by been growled at.
So the cofeeshop/bar talk is SHTF we’all know where to find lots of bullets, bandages, and cans of beans.
Preeper boys if they can even make it up here past all of the urban crush going to find a dug-in for the duration community. One they chose to shun any human investment involvement into.
They will be givne one last chance to become involved. Town cematary is still half empty. SHTF and starting at three months on out to a year it will be filling up. Us meds dependent be some of the first. My plots bought/reserved.
Young fathers loving their children be doing the follow up cematary filling as needs-must.
Us been-there, done-that, gray hairs giving them the examples courage.

Governments are always either top-down too late, too little. Or too top-down intrusive, “We’re from the Government. We’re here to help. Now do things OUR way.” Both approces wrong.
Only thing keeping a couple local drug dealers alive now and one absolute pain in the ass neighbor hated now by all, having every government agency on speed dial and calling in folks for nothings, is one brown shirted County Deputy. SHTF he will not be there anymore to “protect and serve” these.

All the studies say, all of the histories say that one year out with no complex interdependent societal infrastructure be a 50% die off rate. Second year be a die off of 50% of those remaining. Just as important as health, and luck, to be in the remaining you have to be civil and helpful to your niegbors.
No one can actually sleep with their eyes open, irregardless of the prepper/survivor/fanisy books, magazines and Hollywood flicks.

Invest in to your neighbors ahead of time.
I never see Survivalists, Preppers doing this.

Regards
Steve Unruh

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Yep.Yep. I was typing. I type slowly anymore.
Sold off all of the will not knock-down worth a shit 22 rimfire’s. Kept the bricks of caterages. Trading stocks.
Seed packages will be the gold.
Canning jar lids.
Women can come up with many more valuable needful things as exchange medium then men.
We are too tool-myopic.
Yeast packets.
Cans of baking powder.
Soaps.
Sewing threads. Needles.

S.U.

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Ketchup, lots of ketchup…:joy:

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Ummm, if you book into a hotel in venezuela, they tell you to bring your own toilet paper. There is none in the country.
I am in L.A. but, all my stuff has wheels; MBZ diesel, Dodge Ram Cummins and a Dakota. I’ve got 6 drums of fuel here and more in Oregon. i’ve been blogging about the economic collapse for 8 years. If i have to, I can go out by trail on the Rokon or the Honda Trail 110. The collapse isn’t going to hit overnight. Eventually, the sovereign bond market will collapse. GOV will declare force majeure and the banks will close for a period. Of course, this will be of less importance if the San Andreas fault lets go. Parts of Palmdale will head north at a terminal velocity of 55 mph. Then comes the sudden stop.
There will be plenty of time to get out for anyone who is paying attention. I’m not worried about being trapped. I’m only here for the money. The woodgas truck is part of my startegy.:joy: I can trade transportation for other things.

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