I think a little bulky to carry, but Tone’s under thirty pound wood gasifier would be a better choice. His fuel looked a lot like what Joni was picking up off the side of the road. I’m wondering about pine cones for partial fuel as well. I often use them to get my wood stove burning in the morning.
5 Likes
I really like simple, and a hand crank or thermoelectric generator is dead nuts simple. Also small and can fit in a rucksack, or in your Drone’s carrying case.
You could make a little TLUD burner to use wood scraps and twigs, and you’d still be using woodgas!
A gasifier for generation at home is still a very fun and worthwhile project to pursue.
4 Likes
a hand crank would average roughly 50w. Thermoelectric MAY be bulkier then a char gas small engine system to get to 350w, but it can be relatively simple but some of the modules use fluids to regulate the temperature so for 350w they could be bulkier then even a 5hp char system.
I think he just needs to try char with what he has and try to get it to work. Who knows maybe fresh inspiration can solve it. 
1 Like
Hello, Geogeoz I’m the fellow who told you that your current engine was too small to fulfil your needs for back-pack portable ~500 watt wood-to-electric power if it was woodgased.
Here read this short explanation article by Dutch John who did do micro-wood-fueled gasifers. Read his conclusions. His results. His going forwards recommendations.
Once his home page loads, open up his Micro Gasifiers tab.
His many, many side bar pictures can be clicked open larger.
Look at the added size & weight of his DJ-2 one to 2 1/2?? horsepower 160 cc system.
Read his tiny chopped up wood fuel bits he found that it needed. Solo up on the trails . . . more time, wood fuel specialty preparing.
So yes, true: a charcoal fueled gasifier can be half the weight and bulk.
Now add the charcoal making retort system for a minimal smoke, fire-safe charcoal making. Or open air, in the dirt making . . .
Calculate the additional time to make the charcoal → to run the engine-generator → to make your recharging electrical power.
Spinning a crank system for 100 watts will become mighty attractive. Time-spent-wise.
Or just backpacking adding a four-liter tin of liquid engine fuel. Fuel up. Pull start to run. Walk away for a one engine tank full recharging run. ~45-60 minutes. Then be able to do that for 15 days and 30+ times more, on your packed-in liquid fuel.
Dave in Australia said it best: if you could just go fixed base on your system then all could be done possible. Picked up wood to electrical energy in some way.
Steve Unruh
7 Likes
When the local university was my home away from home (my job), one of my tasks was to give students a sense of what “energy” meant. The method we settled on was a bicycle with a generator. I used a big permanent magnet motor (no rectifier losses). This fed DC power to a small grid-tied inverter. To keep the inverter happy, I added a super capacitor board to even out the DC power available. Their task was to produce and deliver to the grid 1 mil ($0.001) worth of electric energy. At the Institute’s power rate, this was about 10 watt-hours. That’s a long introduction, but the average power for those college students was about 30 watts for 20 minutes, and there were a lot of overheated young people after that lab. The high for the class was 44 watts, the low, 22. This is using legs with a seat height adjusted to suit. 50 to 100 watts hand cranking is probably a bit optimistic. A light-weight generator might make it worse.
Kent
3 Likes
Agreed KentP that one armed, hand cranking will be extremely limiting. 4-20 watts at best for a short time.
But two important factors in my claim:
Working conditioning.
And allowing Body-In-Motion.
Working conditioning is done by working the body daily to 85% of its cardiovascular capability. As that capacity develops advance your performed more work accomplished. Distance hiking, especially mountains hike with all of your necessities on your back does this. Bicycle touring camping. Canoeing distance traveling camping. Hand scything acres of field weeds does this. Other sweating activities, done for hour after hour routinely. Build fences. Work up cords of wood.
Now all of these allows the Body-in-Motion. Torso compressions and twisting in time with respiration. This force assists deeper lungs evacuation and filling.
A statioary legs pumper does not allow this.
One of the old two handed military both hands cranking radio generators sets do not allow this.
Put a true bicyclist with his bike on a true dedicated trainer roller set letting him/her to cee and rock their torso and things are much more favorable. 100 watts for one hour.
Switch that military 180 degrees opposed hands crank set to only 30 degrees to 90 degrees separation. Then let the power maker person use a smooth rocking combination of arms and a torso rocking twisting then the numbers produce will be more favorable too. 100 watts for one hour. Even by “old” men and women when conditioned into their forties and early fifties.
Life. Working. And accomplishing works-done, is not at all about muscles groups isolated for appearances body building. Samina. And gut level determination. Allow using your gut torso for respiration.
Measure the capabilities of those who choose to use their bodies as much as their brains.
S.U.
An electrical making fully body motion allowing rowing/sculling machine will perform even better. I can’t find that video, off hand. S.U.
5 Likes
Thanks Mr Steve, that puts electric energy into perspective. Easy to flip a switch 
3 Likes
Now you’re getting personal 
Bike and canoe camping have been on my list for at least 50 years. There is an excellent chance that they will remain on the list (the undone one). That said, biking to work, and more than my share of camping and canoeing means I have no complaints. Your comments on distance hiking remind me of wonderful days backpacking with my Dad and brothers. For a week long trip, its three days of pain followed by four days of joyful hiking.
I currently favor solar and charcoal for electric power, but the bike generator is still in the storage shed And thanks very very much for reminding me to look back and say “Thanks.” It’s more important than the electricity!
Kent
7 Likes
Just so’s you understand I do not advocate human body made electricity for at home.
I viewed at least 10 youtube DIY system to find the one the fellow was into demonstrating and illustrating human capabilities if harnessed right. And not just a lookie-at-what-I-made from junk lay-abouts.
I’d only recommend human power made electricity for remote work.
Bring up Huaban Green Generator on Amazon. Read the positive comments by 3rd world medical missionaries.
Home, working, I’ve learned is best done by hands&body for under say .7-.9 kW.
My very nice $295 USD, Honda FX25 was my last attempt to motor assist in those low of power ranges.
It was in a Honda FG100 mini-cultivator. For quick and easy buzzing, dry dirt lifting mulching, between grow-in gardens rows. After 2 growing seasons of always telling myself to convert it to use an old vacuum cleaner hose to remote pick up engine clean air up high near one hand grip; a bump into a garden stake broke off the low engine mounted snap on/off plastic air cleaner cover. The foam filter then got brushed on probably trailing beans vines or indeterminate tomatoes’ plants. ~45 minutes, a 4 oz tank of fuel later one killed aluminum bore engine. The engine oil looked like quicksilver. Intake sucked-in dirts abrasives killed.
Since I learned lessons.
Only buy four-strokes with cast iron bores. Meaning generally 212cc and larger.
Only on my high performance 2-strokes use the best spec fuels and lubes.
And dropping back to by-hand between garden rows dirt fluffing-stirring will keep a fellow (or gal in my Wife) younger. Interesting she lost 20 pounds. I gained 15 and had to upsize shirts; and pants in the gluteus gone maximus.
On second thought, might have been the lakes canoeing we took up around about then. That always breeze often turns to wind and you have to paddle stroke deep and hard pulling to body sweating power it back to the only allowed accesses point.
There is a tip to you KentP.; pay the additional $1000 to take-off weight on the canoe construction. You will be packing it some. Off/on, car-top racks. Up and down to boat ramps and limited restricted access points. Has to be light enough for you to solo pack, needs-be. Your Other gets to pack mostly all else. At least get it done in two trips, not three or more.
Same; spend out for a real bike-camping bicycle. You’ll need the best quality durability once you bags add on your 50-70 pounds of camping rig. Insist on an older open style center diamond frame. Good place to put 20 pounds of the densest pack in a custom bag. And that top tube then a shoulder rest to one hand steading carry. The other arm free, yours, for balance, maybe a needed walking staff. You will be over the shoulder packing a camping bike too, a percentage of the time. Wind-shear all-fall-down clamber through sections. Landslides. Swampy soft muds.
Cross country sometimes; avoiding other people who want to be avoided. Leave foot tracks, not tires tracks.
Regards
Steve Unruh
4 Likes
I pulled the 50w number from a google search. I remember trying to get a 100w lightbulb lit with a bicycle, but the friction bike generators are largely inefficient, but that is the type most of us have experience with.
1 Like
It is extremly curious to me how some of you guys can take as a faith belief an Internet lie when. the same Internet searched gives human hour after hour of an average of 100 watts. 50-150 watts range. Wikipedia. From 4-6 sources.
Oh well. The last time this came up on the DOW I was thrown a skeptical clip of a huge, muscled sprint track athlete who collapsed after 30 minutes on a legs pumper measuring machine. 250 watts? 300 watts? 500 watts? So what? NOT an endurance cumulative test.
A drag racing machine asked for it’s best efforts to state to state long distance towing haul.
I said they should have used a Le Tour bicyclist. A marathon runner. An iron man Tri-athlete. Just any fit conditioned 20’s, 30’s, 40’s year old.
What has DOW changed since then is Mr Tone, Kristijan, K Kabul, giorgio&son, Marat_lysenko, and Others now active who know, who know well, they at times on their Rural places have to body sweat out 150 watts an hour; working hour after hour, for days at a time.
Fellows who do use their bodies working as much as brains.
A real PNW Loggers Breakfast is 3000-4000 calories at least. Falling, bucking, setting choker on mountains sides slopes you do not get fat.
Ha! It is the machine operators who get fat if they do not cut back with the mouth stuffing in.
Please. Please. World collapse soon so realities can reset.
Aliens. Any time now. We’re overripe going to Rotton. Too in-our-heads. Easy Believers. Trim the fat please.
6 Likes
I have to laugh too steve. Up at the Rocky Reach Dam in the visitors area is a hand crank that you can use both hands and arms to hand crank a 20 watt light bulb using a generator. This is to show show people how much power it take to light up one light bulb and keep it bright. Lots of work to maintain the brightness of that light bulb. Arms get tired fast.
Bob
7 Likes
Neat device! Missionaries work hard. Comments from others: “It’s too hard to turn.” Thirty watts is thirty watts. The regulator they supply looks really nice. Kind of a MPPT for people.
We have an old fiberglass Nona. It was one of two wedding gifts not for the bride (I’m not complaining, but there it is ). In those days, I could portage the canoe, paddles, life jackets, and picnic lunch with no problem. After all these years, the fiberglass has absorbed a huge amount of moisture, doubling the weight. Or, maybe it just seems like it.
Thanks, Steve,
Kent (back to your regularly scheduled thread topic)
6 Likes
Hello everyone !
Wow so much answers, thanks for the interest ! I’was working a lot this week and also nearly finished to assemble the shaft coupling (i’ll tell when i’ll finish this part just to be sure there would be no wobble)
I’am back from hiking for one day btw it was sunny and warm enough =)
-Cody Edison Tate : Ok , so just a fabric filter to capture charcoal dust would suffice and induce a minimum drag if i’understand.
- Sean Omalley :
Ok ok, so very easy indeed. I’must ensure there is no oxygen basically. Making charcoal is just time consuming as our fellows said below
Yeah i’know that’s a shame. My 35cc engine is rated at 1.0 KW - 7000 RPM, so yes, i’was planning on a massive deterioration of shaft power because of the lower energy density of the charcoal gas (i’ve read 60% but it seems to vary a lot in fact maybe due to conditions ?) and the lower rpm .
Yes absolutely that’s why i’ll use an electric motor i’am using is a brushless (AC) 170 KV motor around 800 g. I’ll the rectifier of course and some capacitor and inductor to clean the output signal. Those are so light it isn’t an issue
I’don’t really know at which extent, but the 300-350 w output does seems possible ? That’s part of this experience i’think heheh
Yep Cody, i’am not in the US but in the french alps, just the other side of switzerland border in fact =) Yes a tracted engine would be of course the best, but also very impractical in the matter because of the irregular terrain, lots of forests, mud or rocks must climb a lot.
That’s also the charm of those mountains ! And the bane of this project which makes it so much unconventionnal and hard to “design”.
- Tom Holton : Indeed, i’am not hulk yet but can pack quite a lot =) Yep, fortunately i’either stop frequently in my hikes or for a long time.
I’didn’t thought about the handcrank because of the small power and the additional strain on endurance, dunno how efficient it would be
- Steve unruh : I’ll definitely take a look at the whole site, thanks for the tip !
I’agree, regular fuel would be the most convienient by far but i’nearly never see a fuel pump during the hikes. That’s why i’turned to gasifiers which is the only on site fuel available. Solar can’t pack enough power for a small portable panel.
-Kent Potter : Yes that’s true, energy isn’t free and even rather precious i’agree
6 Likes
Good thinking’s analysis Geo.
You have been reading and following along.
Do you daily make; and allowed woodfired camping fires?
When I bicycled toured around the Pacific NW, I did not. The time saved allowed me another 30+ miles traveled. This was always in the summer dry season drought periods. Bicycling touring on roads with small towns and tourist catering stores it was possible to white gasoline re-supply for my little brass Primus stove. Done today again I’d use instead and all-liquid fuels MRS stove. And use more energy dense auto-diesel. And yes indeed try again making up a TEG charger heating off of that stove.
Old, even dated info, yes. Shows the hot-cold side needed. No one anymore will sell completed generating units. The TEG cells are easily overheat destroyed. Heating with wood is a variable batch evolving heating source. Too easy to get too hot and destroy the interface junction. I did; and have. Note in this video they are only using a burnt down to coals as their wood fired heating source.
When you read over Dutch John site on his Micro system for 1 horsepower ~750 shaft watts you will see the need for very small chipped up chunked up raw wood fuel bits. It WILL be you, arm-strong having to make this up daily.
Ha! So again I say why not use that sweating personal energy to just make electrical power more directly?
If you can and are allowed daily collected woods camping fires you could make hardwood charcoal. Using less cutting/chopping needed sticks forms. Before you commit to mini-charcoal gasifier and filtering system fabricating . . . practice making the charcoal fuel you will be needing. Then decide if this time and steps needed is something you want to support hiked up in then on a daily basis.
A whole different set of will-do, can-do as Dave said if you could do this on a fixed cabin site basis.
Regards
Steve Unruh
3 Likes
Hello Guys !
Just to tell you that i’finished to assemble the engine to the brusless motor and it now runs flawlessly on gasoline.
I’ve installed a diode bridge rectifier , some big capacitors and an inductor to get a clean output towards a DPS5020. I’need to make the right “software” adjustments on this small ajustable powersupply.
So the project is in progress ! I’ll let you know when i’began the gasifier part, which is not far away =)
- Steve Unruh
Yes, well not authentic wood camping fires, but i’use a portable wood stove for heating food, I’ve used other types of fuels before but they required additional space and weight of course.
That’s what i’ve read, Thermoelectic cells seems too fragile for the amount of heat generated by a gasifier right ?
Yes, that’s also a perk of charcoal i’ve thought of : it’s easy to break down with minimal effort once the wood sticks are pyrolized.
I’ll definitely do this before, and take notes of the time needed. Next weekend i’ll go and practice that’s a good advice!
As said before, i’take the time, no need to rush and making multi of kilometers per hikes =)
8 Likes
Hello Geo,
Then here is a topic you need to study then:
You will need to modify your ground gleamed fed portable woodstove, and your operation of it, to cook and make ending charcoal twig fuel too. Much trail and err experimentation to accomplish this. It is possible.
Regards
Steve unruh
8 Likes
Hello !
Hey Steve, thanks for the topic ! he burnt his twigs in only one hour ? It’s not a lot
Okay, how do i’need to modify it ?
BTW i’have an electronic problem, my powersupply (dps5020) screen lit white when i’ turn on the whole circuit (with the capacitors and the inductor) so i’assume there is still much interference? Anyone has any idea ?
I’have thought about using a solar charge controller/ MPPT which may be less sensible to the motor/generator EMI ?
Many thanks !
2 Likes
Geo, please draw a diagram and part values, how you connected it all to the generator and where you connect the dps5020.
2 Likes
Hello !
I’haven’t done a diagram or values. I’just connected the three phase motor to a diode rectifier and the dps 5020, nothing new.
1 Like