The truth about Ukraine

Your post is filled with wisdom Marat. I admire you very much. As much as possible it is better to avoid involvement. Regular folks who should only have to concern them selves with raising families and caring for their land are always the ones to suffer. Not the politicians and industrialist who stand to profit from every conflict. War is always about money and resources. Perhaps the true outcome will not be apparent for some months or years but in the end it will be that someone made money from all this chaos that is being forced upon you.

You were also wise to relocate to a rural location. Even in the US is will not be long before the major cities become war zones. In many places it is already happening but of course information everywhere is very tightly controlled to hide any truths. I have been often ridiculed for my way of living, my insistence on being as totally self sufficient as possible and yet there is not one person in your country right now that would not be very happy to have a large supply of food, water and the ability to power their house and tools. As you say, all conflicts come to an end. It doesn’t really matter who comes out on top. The people will still be pawns in someones game. I hope for the sake of you, your family and all the regular folks in your country it comes to some conclusion soon.

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I sit here powerless to do much but offer my hope and best wishes.
I am upset as hell at our politicians that let this happen.
It hit close to home for me I have in laws here and in Ukraine under threat
Be strong and hold on for peace.

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Three reasons for the emergence of hostilities in Ukraine.

  1. The war would have been started by a day or another by the pro-fascist elite of Ukraine. The main goals were outlined by Ukraine: Donbass (partly Ukraine) and Crimea (Russian territory that once belonged to Ukraine). Russia was put in a stalemate and she launched the first military operation.
  2. In 2014, pro-fascist forces, with the direct support of the United States, carried out a coup d’état, which resulted in a military conflict in the west of Ukraine in the Donbass, which has continued to this day. All this time, the civilian population of Donbass was systematically destroyed. All these years, it has been hammered into the minds of Ukrainians that Russians are enemies. All Ukraine spoke Russian, but the Russian language was taken and banned, they still speak it, despite the ban. All these 8 years, the United States and its assistants have been doing everything to play off the two fraternal peoples, and they have succeeded. Two brothers are fighting in the blood.
  3. Neither the United States nor Western countries are in the least concerned about the grief of the Ukrainian and Russian people. The NATO military bloc would be in Ukraine, and this is a threat to Russia and the war would already be on the territory of Russia. There are reports that Ukraine, with the support of the West, was on the verge of manufacturing nuclear weapons. It can be said that the military actions in Ukraine are the deliverance of all mankind from a nuclear collapse.

Neither Ukraine nor Russia wants war.
What is the way out?

Russia is not able to stop the military conflict until the ardent Nazis are destroyed and Ukraine adheres to neutrality - this is the main goal of the military operation. Until now, Ukrainian cities surrounded by Russian troops have not been bombed, although Ukrainian militants have settled in them, hiding behind the civilian population, and are firing from residential areas from there. Russia has enough bombs and missiles to wipe out all the cities of Ukraine in a few days, but why destroy the population, enterprises, and then restore everything?
Russia will fulfill its intended goals with a minimum loss of civilian population - this is unequivocal. Everyone already understands this, the sooner the Ukrainian troops lay down their arms, the sooner Peace will come.

Три причины возникновения военных действий на Украине.1. Войну начала бы день или другой профашистская верхушка Украины.Были намечены Украиной основные цели : Донбасс (частично Украина) и Крым (Российская территория когда то принадлежащая Украине). Россию поставили в безвыходное положение и она начала военную операцию первой.2. В 2014 году профашистские силы при непосредственной поддержке США произвели государственный переворот, в результате которого возник военный конфликт на западе украины в Донбассе, который продолжался до сих пор. Все это время планомерно уничтожалось мирное население Донбасса. Все эти годы в умы украинцам вдалбливали, что русские враги. Вся украина говорила на русском, но русский язык взяли и запретили, они и до сих пор говорят на нем, несмотря на запрет. Все эти 8 лет США и их помощники делали все, чтобы стравить два братских народа, и у них это получилось. Два брата бьются в кровь.3. Ни США ни западные страны нисколько не заботит горе Украинского и Российского народа. Военный блок НАТО был бы на Украине, а это угроза России и война уже была бы на территории России. Поступают сведения, что Украина при поддержке запада была на грани изготовления ядерного оружия. Можно сказать, что военные действия на Украине это избавление всего человечества от ядерного коллапса.
Войны не хотят ни в Украине ни в России.Какой же выход?Прекратить военный конфликт Россия не в состоянии, пока не будут уничтожены ярые нацисты и Украина будет придерживаться нейтралитета - это основная цель военной операции. До сих пор окруженые Российскими войсками города Украины не бомбят, хотя в них, прикрываясь мирным населением засели украинские боевики и от туда из жилых районов ведут огонь. У России достаточно бомб и ракет чтобы стереть все города украины за несколько дней, но зачем, уничтожать население, предприятия, а потом все восстанавливать?Россия выполнит намеченные цели с минимальной потерей гражданского населения - это однозначно. Это уже понимают все, чем быстрее войска Украины сложат оружие, тем быстрее наступит Мир.

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I want to appeal to all forum participants.
The topic of the forum is not politics.

I propose to delete this topic.
No need to incite ethnic hatred.

Хочу обратиться ко всем участникам форума.
Тема форума не политика.
Предлагаю удалить эту тему?
Не надо разжигать межнациональную рознь.

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Nothing should be deleted.
We learn nothing from the past if its deleted or covered up, and then other people with their own agenda can tell us what they think happened…

I think you will find positions are only going to harden from here on, but it is not hatred in towards Russians, Putin did this.
It might take a long time but peace will come, and Ukraine will decide its own future.

Also I would like to remind you these two flags are not the same.
( yes this is Canada we do not forget these things, there will always be a minority of right wing extremism )

Ще не вмерла Украіна,
И слава, и воля!

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Just to make it very clear. Most folks here in the United States, do not blame people of Russia and we certainly do not hate them. Its just the contrary

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It is the leaders of countries that okay the starting and involvement of wars and to stop the wars. Peace is the only way for everyones’s good. But for the greety war mongers there is no profit in this. My prayer is that there may be a peaceful resolution and stop the killing.
Bob

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It is just like Srebrenica, the world is watching but not acting. Only this time a whole nation is victim. As Ukraine and Russia are like brothers, dont fight. That is only good for the weapon industry. We have seen Covid for farmacy and now this?
I dont think I will ever vote again in my life.

Very, very wise choice Marat.

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If the Chinese decided to precipitate the overthrow of an elected government in Mexico and then propose to set up Military weapons systems at the Texas and Arizona borders and have the capability of attacking the new seat of government in the US in Denver how would you react?

Vladislav is correct in stating that the US was in a large part responsible for this regime change in the Ukraine and that the Alphabet agency contractors from the US were sent in to train the Neo-Nazi Azoz Battalions. This was even explored on such American TV programs as VICE in 2018. All of a sudden we want to get myoptic ignoring all the clues at the scene of the crime. We learn nothing from history. As Winston Churchill stated at the end of WW Two. History is written by the victors. Here is a history of the region from a different perspective. You are not required to accept any of it but it will never be written in any history book.

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Where did all those Tatars go that lived on Crimea? ( Gulags ! )
Why Doesn’t anyone think its the Turks that should get that land back?

Jewish President of a Neo nazi Ukraine was probably going to help George Soros build more space lasers to set fires to California too…
Maybe build them atomic weapons too…

As improbable as it sounds there are Jews in the Azov Battalion.

Crazy world…
I ain’t saying its right or makes sense but it does not justify the pulverizing of cities full of innocent people…
I seen this before too.
I remember Georgian’s colour revolution crushed and I remember the Chechen’s got bomb into the dust too.

Madness.
Reminds me of a book.

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The article actually read more like Russian propaganda then actual history trying to lay the foundation for an attack on Khazistan because Khazistan refused to send troops to support Putin.

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Still no responce. Then l see this…

Thats their town…

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You are right, @tcholton717, that true discussion should not cover eyes before any fact on the ground.

So, if there might be US responsibility for ousting Janukovyc, why not to mention Russia’s economical sanctions against Ukraine, which led to scraping already negotiated EU admission.

Azov battalion is certainly not kindergarten, but one should keep an eye on fact, that it was founded after massive incursion of Russian soldiers into Donbas, covered as volunteers.

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Пидар, ты откуда говнюк тут взялся?!
Это ты и твои тупые оркобратья думают , что фашисты в Украине. Фашисты уже давно перекрасились в триколоры и поменяли сластику ! Все они седят в кремле и пользуются твоим высохшим мозгом

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Уебок, ты здохнешь от моих рук!:ukraine::v::grin:

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С какого хуя я должен капитулировать?! Я живу на своей земле и не на кого не нападаю в отличие от рашистской империи во главе с цобнутым карликом который , как и 70 процентов кацапов, думает что Украина это какая-то недострана!? Пиздюк приедь , ятебе покажу своё желание тебе сдаться! Ты и твои братья будут достойно использованы в сельском хозяйстве при посевной! Вы орда, вы даже своих трупов не собираете! Они уже валяются повсюду!
Нашли страну с сорокамилионным населением фашистов - дебильней нечего не придумать!?:face_with_symbols_over_mouth:
Ничего, время расставит все точки над и !
Скоро завоешь по-другому, ублюдок!

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I suggest that the site moderators restrict access to participants from the territory of the aggressor’s country. thereby expressing their support for democracy in the world and putting an end to the propaganda of rashism on the planet. all the more so, all Russians and Belarusians live at a “gas station”, that is, with the problem of lack and price of fuel, they must, first of all, turn to their government. and with a brainwashed and brainwashed they have nothing to do here.

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To be honest, this about the only time I have ever outright agreed with your complete sentiment.

This is Russian propaganda, but because of the all the Rothchild references, I suspect it was originally written for EU member countries.

The Russians changed their fighting style to a propaganda based system so they would face less resistance and possibly gain support prior to an invasion.

From a friend whom I almost never agree with because he is way too deep into leftfield:

Here’s a good, detailed story on why Russia is failing, from The Guardian:
https://is.gd/CLXeNQ

In short, Putin has poured in billions to reform and modernize the Russian
armed forces since 2008 with an emphasis not not sheer brute force, but by
utilizing propaganda campaigns to first, get the enemy to be divided and weakn
itself (coughstolen electioncoughfake newscough) and then to use force
only against military and government targets to show that it has more care for
the citizens than their own government does. Given the choice between the two,
the gamble is that citizens who opt for peace with the enemy rather than
continued divisiveness lead by various political factions that are viewed as
inept and responsible for this whole invasion business.

Ukraine was attacked at a time where it was thought they were at their weakest.
Tensions between Ukraine and the revels in Donetsk and Luhansk had reached
critical levels, and Ukraine began to step up military attacks on rebels, and
thus the rebels drawing much sympathy from people in those regions as well as
abroad. Those attacks were being lead by a division in the miitary with an
established history of neo-Nazi white nationalism. President Zelensky has been
viewed, even by his own supporters, as being ineffective in bringing about
reforms. As he’s a political novice, it was seen that he didn’t have the skill
to bring together various politicans and their supporters and couldn’t be
relied on an a leader.

Likewise, NATO did not appear to be very cohesive, thanks in part to the
actions of Donald Trump. Had Trump won a second term, it’s believed by
Alexander Vindmann, he would have withdrawn the US from NATO. The European
Union itself, coming off of the disaster of Brexit, was less stable than ever.
And they’ve never engaged, as a party, in a joint exercise of their combined
military powers. And with Russia having a permanent seat on the UN Security
Council, it effectively had a thumb on controlling any UN response, or at
least making it neutral in the conflict.

While Putin has the last one correct (so far), it seems like everything else
was very, very, very badly miscalculated. Or, just perhaps, Putin’s attack
made everybody else realize just how lax they’ve been, and were able to
find the fortitude to pull it back together quickly.

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I doubt it will be an issue for long. Putin is thinking about disconnecting Russia from the internet completely. If you click on the link it automatically translates it to english.

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An army of conscripts is never going to be all that interested in fighting especially people they do not see as an enemy.
A home army defending will have a huge advantage if they are motivated to defend.

Ukrainian army was poorly trained before.
My chum tells me military service back 10 - 20 years ago was a joke and they were not an effective fighting force.
That has changed but no one told this to the Russians

Zelensky reminds me of Ronald Reagan both understand how to present themselves to camera and how to speak through the medium to reach the viewers.
Putin sucks at this.

I feel there is a good chance the Ukrainian army, a peoples army with enough weapons and help can defeat the red army.
They just need to wear them down bog them down and chew them up.
They red army will exhaust itself and they will not be able to continue.
I don’t know how it will end but the red army can’t win this.

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