hi max, true i wish i had the machine shop skills and tools, back too the drawing board for now. Ya that might have worked good that way. Like whos got that much time these days, about the time we think were set, something will change too cause time too run short.?
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Hi, Kevin!
18.10.2018
If you do not have the material to “compose” an own roller, go to a neighbor who has one! With a bit of luck a neighbor can give a tip who has a roller… if not having himself…
Good luck!
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Hey Kevin on this top-stuff let me help maybe with a cut-and-fit approach.
The woosh-poof pushes UPWARD. IF the lid/hatch system type allows twisting, or one side favors movement, then be much more difficult to evenly SELF-reseat.
You want the lid retainer to PULLED back down evenly around to reseal.
The WK sytmes poofs-release/reseating as Wayne builds them is many spaced around evenly pulling springs. This works excellent for that one purpose. He separated out the actually filling lid to a separate exprenced-skilled-hand-operation. See his working video’s.
What max and Tom have been discussing is a one-lid does ALL system. And Max with many seen earlier evolved tool-less easy-use European working systems in his experiences base.
So to begin . . .think of a man under an old style parachute. Gravity pulling the man down BELOW the evenly distributed out by many cords domed parachute “pulling” upwards. (yeah, I’ll get slammed for this one!)
Turn these forces around reversed and this is what Max wants in a good fill-lid/poof combination system.
Now with a single spring bow/feather controlled lid you are much more like a modern rectangular directional parachute. The basic lay out of the pivot and latching ends; the width/stiffness and attachment(s) to the actual lid WILL be your parachutists control.
Done right best-practices and then a fellow should be able too fuel chunk bucket/basket edge bump unlatched&lid opened. Dump-in fill. Bucket/basket edge lid flip back down& bumped relatched.
Look Ma! No hands touched. No muss.
Sure. Sure. Most will want to soft bagged fuel refill. Two hands needed and no hard edge to be your lid tools.
It’s O.K. No elegant designing and fabricating needed then.
Put on your gloves then (ha! I do) and hands-on: unlatch/unbolt, flip up/removed lid, bag dump-fill, wipe seating, flip-closed/pick up and pop lid cover back on, thump to seat, rebolt/relatch closed.
All just depends on what you want and how much effort AT WHAT POINT you are willing to put into it. ( meaning . . . A Designer/designs . . . an Operator will make any design workable . . . and bitch just how hard the Designer has made him work to make it workable)
Regards
tree-farmer Steve unruh
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Steve; I take one point of this post.
In this group “we” are the designer, builder, and operator. So we have no room to bitch— just go sit in a corner and think up solutions— or go to DOW for suggestions.
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Hi steve thanks for the reminders, more gloves, less ingineering dreams, Like you say wk malti spring lid seems too work without insident Good enough. Parts that are allready too reperpos is my best bet any way. Back too the grind stone , i got too get my hot water heating wood gasifier done before getting time too remount a vehicle gasifier again.
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Some parts are easier to understand then others… Tom, i think its meant to be "solving your own design is less complicated then solving a problem the designer, who has no clue what the operator has to endure, created "
In some cases, as per your own design, efforts, sweat and tears included, simplicity prevails…
Thinking in functionality is one keyword i try to implement…
In case of your cover: many designs try to include multi-functionality… try to forget about that…
You want 2 functions, filling lid and puffing lid…
Solution:
1: make one lid that can be closed tight, the easy way, no springs…
2: on that lid, or another place, make an overpressure valve that never will be opened unless you have a “puff”
On stationary designs they use aluminium foil rupture disks, but i am sure a larger tennis ball will work to
A larger , heavy rubber ball, 4" size, on top of a 4" pipe as a blow off valve maybe ?
I could think about hundred different idea’s, some will work for me, some will not work for you…
I learn from any builders experiences, oh my Budha, thank you for the DOW forum and its members…
i think this one fits all… Hands on mentality… sometimes i forgot the gloves and burned my fingers, sometimes i wear flipflops and do plasma cutting…
On DOW i learn from my mistakes and others successes… and vice versa… but mostly i learn from the positive critics i receive…
Damn, writing this i can’t stop dreaming of paying a visit ( study trip ) to each build talked about here on DOW… wow what a trip that would be…
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Thank you Koen; Right off hand I can think of one person who thought like you are saying with a “separate” puff exhaust. That was Don Mannes design. Your comment makes it so simple that I wonder why I have been flogging the same dead horse all these years, trying to make a lid seal and yet let lose under pressure
One of those "hundred LIKE " post TomC
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H&H welding in Mason, mi, I believe they have a large roller and do custom work. The people who sell the sheet metal for furnace installs also have one, and a large brake, and will do it for you, but they only do sheet metal thicknesses. otherwise, you can make a roller, there are online video’s and directions for it if you poke around.
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A disclaimer; I am well and have no interest in suicide!!! But I have a question about CO and CO2. I know that CO is a deadly gas. But when I was younger, the best method of suicide was to run a hose from your exhaust pipe in one window of your car, start the engine, and go to sleep. ( aspirin were the strongest pills available ) The news always said, “he died of carbon dioxide poisoning”. Carbon dioxide is CO2, right? Was the paper using the wrong term?
The reason I’m asking about this is snow is starting to fly here and I have no heat in my shop yet. My old chimney is gone and the lay out of my new shop area doesn’t leave room for a chimney. What kind of heat can I use. I am thinking about one of those “turbo heater”. They come in bottled gas or kerosene and not sure what else. What can I do for heat without a chimney??? Without a chimney am I asking to kill myself. I have worked with those radiant heaters and don’t like them. You have to stand close and directly in front of them. ( lots of nylon jackets melted standing in front of one.)
Suggestion please. Winter is knocking hard on our door. TomC
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Hi Tom, What fuel sources do you have there? I use an over head gas heater with a very simple 3’’ vent. Maybe get one for propane.
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Hi Tom, I used electric heat force air stand alone 110v unit to heat my garage and one of those oil filled radiators 110v. Our washer and dryer are in the garage so we keep it heated in the winter months. I also live in the cheapest power area (Douglas County) of the USA.
If you are well insulated in your shop it would be the easiest way to go. Especially if you have a 220v to feed from, those units are much more effective and efficient than a 110v unit. Turn it on and warm air circulating in your work area and heating the area up. Put tools with warm air going over them nice to hand on a winters day. The safe way to go in my opinion. Turn it off when you are not in the shop working.
Bob
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Hi TomC,
All of the old vehicles were easily capable of 1-3 % CARBON MONOXIDE exhaust emmiting prior to the mid 1970’s. Easy suicide killers.
Later era vehicles with catalytic converters and AirInjectionReaction (into exhaust air pumps) all certified below 1% carbon monoxide. And the more and more advanced electronic fuel injection types even lower yet.
However. You can kill your self just as dead with Carbon DIOXIDE poisoning. Just takes longer. Think back on some of the really old submarine movies and the Apollo 13 accident. Human exhaled carbon dioxide building up was the will-kill 'ya sooner or later danger.
Your shop heating will be much about fuel-use costs.
I’ve actually heated many shops with late model running vehicles INSIDE with tight fitting flexible exhaust hoses.
Coming back from town a then parked inside fully heated up 1000 pounds of engine/radiator/transmission will hours shed off a lot of heat too.
If you go with inside combustion heaters; complete combustion WILL produce a lot of air moisture. ONE gallon of fuel-in will make for more than a gallon(weight) of inside air moisture added!
Always below sub-freezing and too air dry maybe this not be a problem for you?
“Shoulder seasons” weather Fall and Spring; expect to make raining inside of a non-insulated metal building. Insulated? Non-exhaust vented combustion heaters will Wet sog that insulation if a mat/or absorb-able type.
Easier to heat a subdivided space than the whole space.
Regardless of the source; I like red-glow warm you at a distance radiant heating; or Hot-Black Body radiating and convection heating the best in a shop versus any type of noisy, disturbing, hot air blasting.
BTU’s may be the same . . . effects on the human body and human moods is far different.
Regards
tree-farmer Steve unruh
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Thanks for the comments; Al, yes one of the modern high efficiency heaters where you just have a 3 inch vent through the wall might work. Was hoping for something on the cheaper side, but that would be a good investment. I probably have about any fuel I want but piping the NG would be a project. We are working on putting in electricity, so as Bob suggested it will be a possibility.( if I could talk my wife into her washer/dryer out there, she would make it plenty hot.)
Good info on CO and CO2, Steve. Didn’t realize that was the reason for change to the more modern ways of committing suicide. ( always thought the air injection was a joke— If you put out a cubic foot of exhaust at 10% CO2, then pump one cubic foot of raw air in with the first one, you end up with 2 cu.ft. with 5% CO2–??) Anyway, my shop is divided into a parking area and a 15x30 area to be heated. It is not insulated and with a walk in door, a window, and a 10 ft rolling door and a cold concrete floor, I don’t think moisture will be a problem. I will only heat the one area when I am in the shop. I agree about the noise, but I don’t know anything about those radiant heating systems. Saw a shop once that had a radiant tube/shield down the center of two bays. Don’t know how well it worked or what kind of gas they used.
In Ohio I had a 3 car garage as a shop, and I heated it with a 150,000 torpedo heater. It through out good heat – in a half hour or so I could take off my coat and until then I pulled it around where it blew on me. Pretty good deal except for hours after I could taste diesel fuel from my lungs. If I went with a torpedo heater it would have to be propane and yet I think that in your throat gives a taste. TomC
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The overhead radiant heat systems with a reflector are probably the most efficient, feels like the sun shining down.
The portable Mr Heater type units have a low oxygen sensor shutoff built in, so they are safe for indoor use, but will produce humidity, which will end up on cold tools, etc. There are kerosene higher capacity units, they would probably fit the bill, probably your most practical immediate fix, and then could be sold after if desired.
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hi tom i am with any heating unit other than the diesel salimander type, the propane one are a little less exousting. if the electric is cheap, that sounds GOOD. You may have too insulate a big enough winter work area. I agree the newer cars dont kill too fast as a rule from exoust, i remeber seeing all the news cast from older cars, died just sleeping in a running car too keep warm. YOU could allways run your wood truck with a good exoust vent systom out the door for starters till you get a heater set up. If the hopper was too burp a time in beteen fill ups it should be fine for safty reasons.
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Electric doesn’t usually heat as fast but far safer in most cases.
You should convert your gasifier into a CHP system. There is no sense in not using your elite skills.
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You heated your old shop with wood, right?
Back when kids were born we lived for several years in a small cottage. I connected a small 12X12X12" cast iron woodstove to a 4" drainpipe vent and had a table fan blowing on the stove and the red hot pipe. Early winter mornings dress code was heavy coats and moon boots. After only half an hour we were down to knickers and T-shirts.
Nothing beats wood for fast heat.
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Thanks everybody; I looked on the net and think I will go with a propane radiant heater. Steve’s comment about a car engine, made me think about heating with wood by feeding a gasifier to run an engine to heat the shop— but wait, the reason I need heat is to work on my gasifier. My old shop was heated with wood. My chimney was a 30 Ft. 8’’ culvert, one end buried 8 Ft. in the ground. It worked good for many years , but was rusting out because I didn’t put an ash / soot clean out.
TomC
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If you have southern exposure, you might look at the passive solar panel heating. It is pretty cheap and it works. You may need another heat source, but you won’t have to run it as long.
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Thanks Sean; My shop is in a quonset building and the south facing wall is curved. I put as big of windows in the east facing wall as I could get. TomC
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