Ahhh. Yes. Now Stephen you find the downside of a one-wire alternator: no easy way to keep it turned OFF until you want it to charge!
In your case the easy solution is to split that alternators cases and put in a regular added two wire voltage regulator. Then you can wire in a turn ON switch to the #2 terminal reg terminal. Oddly by it’s internal design as a “field diode” (diode trio) type only taking the alternator then back to zero RPM would it turn back off.
These can even be converted with a one-year transition brush holder to externally regulated allowing full external control. And then control through a good 3-4 stage battery bank regulator control. Lose simplicity, and low expense going to this Best Battery bank saving type system though. Those full bank control regulators run a couple of hundred USD by themselves.
Regards
Steve Unruh
I have given up on gm alternators for heavy loads I use them on all sorts of other projects tractors crawlers splitters.
I find there weak link is the regulators .so now I look for ford ambulance alts with an external regulator then I can start the engine let it warm up a little before powering up the alt and after a couple of years when the regulator craps out there cheap i keep a spare on the shelf .
sorry Stephen I wasn’t trying to pee in your cheerios I thought you were trying to charge a bigger battery bank .
Hi Paul,
No question I am trying to charge a larger bank. The reason I went with this alternator is that it is cheap and easy. Personally I hate anything with brushes. I just want to make my mistakes cheaply before moving on to anything larger and more exotic. Long term I am looking at brushless tractor trailer alternators.
Stephen
that does sound nice are those 24 volt
Yes. They are and they are rated for crazy temperatures.
I have kept mine at 12 just for simplicity I have a repair shop and can charge 12 volts from anything in an emergency and I don’t want to convert for money reasons and I get a lot of alternators for almost free scrap cars cant beat that price . but I do have 2 alternators set up to charge 2 batteries to weld with it requires at least 18 volts for thin stuff.
Anybody know if one alternator could drive a second alternator as a motor? Remove both regulators and bridges, supply a DC current to both rotors and connect both three phase stators together.
Jeff
Jeff,
I am confused. Both alternators have 3 phase coils and rotors. DC wouldn’t do anything. We get DC because of the diode bridge, which can’t be driven in reverse.
That would also be a painfully inefficient system. ~20%
Stephen
Hi Stephen,
One would be a three phase generator and the second one would be a three phase motor. None of the regulators or bridges would be of any use but the rotor would still need to be excited.
Application would be on my tractor to provide remote PTO. Drive shafting can get expensive and complicated. Hydraulics are expendive, bulky and need oil. Electric has more applications. Wires bends easy. Possible use could be on a wind mill where it’s doing just mechanical work not charging batteries.
Jeff
Hi Wood Gassers,
I achieved the “attached battery charging turn off” I was looking for. I went to a three wire Delco 10si and added switchable 12V input to tab #2. I killed the battery again before shooting this video:
Oddly enough, jumpering tabs one and two together made it charge and so did just connecting the “idiot light” on tab one only. I don’t understand that but now I have what I want so I will keep trying to hurt it and make sure the electronics are OK with what I did.
Stephen
Hey Stephen the other regulator terminal is an external system voltage sensing regulator input. The turn on terminal does not need (but can use) full system voltage to turn on the alternator. Why it can be activated through a bulb resistance.
Many just loop the regulator snesing terminal out to the alternator ouput terminal. Works. Bur . . . any charge ciecut resistance will lead to an under charged battery.
Intended way was to have this as close to the battery + terminal connected. Then the alternator regulator would force up alt voltage as needed to battery charge. That was fine before rise of on board electronics. So what if bulbs and such maybe saw 15-16 volts for the system to get +13.x volts to the battery plates past some green terminal/cable ends corrosion.
Ha! Ha! Newer on-board electronic’s do not like a possible 16 or higher volts.
Stephen please wiring diagram verify the #1 and #2 usages. Sigh. Something I thought I’d never forget now, fuzzy memory.
This Is why the newer vehicle alt systems have never less than 3-4 internal regulator terminals. Now one terminal for engine computer commanded positive alternator shut down for: acceleration; engine overheating; sensed shorted alt diode allowing ripple chatter confusing digital signal lines, etc. Another terminal “P” for alternator phase signally.
Newer digital vehicle system did not even like the electrical system chatter set up by the rotor tail torrington needle bearings in these older style alternators. Why the change over to ALL with ballbearings in the rear too. GM especially screwed the pooch on thier first modern era 1980’s “CS’s” double BB units with constraining rotor heating length growth. A lesson Hitachi had to learn in the 70’s. Ford in the 50’s. GM knew this well in the 50’s. Those engineers long retired.
JeffD what you ask for is impossible in claw-pole (Lunden?)alternators. Possible on some of the other much more expensive types. All obsolete.
Any-hoo . . . Stephen realize with now an external sensed terminal you can now vary your system voltage up and down some for benefits. That has worked real well on distance mounted windmill and micro-hydro systems. Same problem motor cruiser boats have.
Regards
Steve Unruh
The stars have aligned and the automixer is FINALLY running an engine. For the first time EVER I got to stand back, grin ear to ear, and listen to an engine run through an entire fuel load with no poking or prodding. Life is going to get boring now.
Maybe I will take up needle point while the Gas Station runs.
In all seriousness I need to get the adjustment amplitude down but otherwise the core code is good to go. Then I can go on to load testing and get some REAL data.
Thanks Steve…!!
Jeff
Hi StephenA
I just did a Google search of “10 SI wiring”.
The Google picture portfolio shows that I advised you wrong.
The #1 regulator spade terminal (closest to the output stud terminal) is the one that is supposed to be trough a switch activated. This circuit can have an charge indicator bulb in series. Key-on thorough the regulator will ground flow or bulb illumination current. Alternator starts voltage producing and then the output positive voltage then will head bump with the trough the switch batt/system voltage nullifying bulb current flow/illumination. One of the site pictures shows to remove and discard the sometimes installed internal wound resistance wire jumper clip. This was factory installed to allow a constant small current bleed to allow positive system excitation even IF the switched circuit bulb burnt out. This resistor WILL cause a small constant battery drain.
The #2 regulator spade terminal you are now switching is the one that is supposed to be for external battery voltage monitoring. This is the one on far-remote and oversize battery banks that you can play variable forced alternator voltage output games with.
Realize that an only 25% charged 12 volt lead-acid will have a 12.25 volt resting voltage to 12.75 resting voltage at fully charged.
This alternator can be forced up into 16-18 charging volts (and higher!) trying to get the battery to accept amps to bring up it’s state of charge voltage.
The GM/Delco “SI” series of units were better mechanically/magnetically than their Ford/Chrysler contemporary’s.
Still . . a 10SI cooling can only handle at most 1200-1500 watts of waste heat. before delaminating the diodes from their heat sinks.
Early 90’s and on the Ford internal fans units then designed head and shoulders above any complementary Dephi unit.
Chrysler by the late 80’s abandoned their own designing and moved on to superior internal dual fan Nippon Denso’s.
And in all cases the 78 to 140 watts in a wound wire magnetic rotor coil is what gives the command control unlike the PM magnet conversion feak’n’stein !0SI units with the only control as then rpm/speed. Not even really a good wind unit versus an hand-made purpose built axial flux unit.
Fot the $$$ bucks of one of those PM abortions you can have 4000 watts at variable rpm ,with complete control in a new LN/Motorola truck/clone alternator AND have that four stage battery bank conditioning regulator.
Regards
Steve Unruh
For the guys dependent on expensive refined bought out Dino fuels the alternator (and engine) efficiency are the King to work/sweat the efficiency watts:
www.microcogen.info/index.php?topic=3410-msg37889#msg37889
The really nice thing about using wood for power is that the drying part of it makes ALL wastes heats, not wasted,; then capable of being used then as system energy recovered.
So what an older DC alternator is only 50% efficient versus the best in class as 85% efficient?
An affordable IC engine as only 28% efficient versus up to now newer 50% efficient?
Those efficiency differences end up mostly expresses as heats. Those heats can be made to fuel woods condition in all times of the year rain or shine; day or night.
Stick with your take off, and inexpensive 10SI’s Stephen as long as they can still be making the affordable real watts.
Now that is total system $'s efficiency.
Regards
Steve Unruh
HI Wood Gassers,
I just had a great day with the automixer. She is officially done…until I figure out something else I want it to do. I started the generator on wood gas then looked at the O2 signal with and without filtering with my oscilloscope. The result was a DOH!!! moment. I changed the code and now the arm oscillation is about .06"/1.5mm and much slower. I ran three hoppers of chips without it messing up.
Time for load and tractor testing.
Stephen
Hi Wood Gassers,
I have been beating on the automixer and I am convinced it is ready for others to play with a.k.a. I haven’t been able to break it yet.
If you want one just send me a note. The lead time will be several weeks because I need to have more custom boards made. Pricing will be $350 plus shipping for the board, O2 sensor, servo, and mixing valve assembly. This is without the Arduino since many people probably have one. If you need an Arduino Uno it will be another $35.
Please note, The automixer uses an unheated narrow band O2 sensor so it needs to be in a running exhaust stream for about 2 minutes before it starts reading valid data. That is why on the 4kW I have a manual mixer for startups and the automixer for operation. The startup can be on gasoline or wood.
Stephen
congrats Stephen! a notable achievement. still hoping to get in a visit sometime this summer. life seems to be in a crisis-a-day mode lately…
Hi Robin,
I have demos on 6/6 and 6/18 if either of those days works. Check the left side of my website for locations.
Stephen