2 1/2; 5 1/2; 7.0; 10.5 &18 Horsepowers

[Wallace]

You do need to keep those tins on Dave to ensure proper cooling.
Make a hole you can put your drill on if that helps.

@SteveUnruh

A bit of a Canadian accent wouldn’t you say?

Yes.
To the untrained ear if you listen to little lilt at the end word in a sentence ending on a high note this is a Canadian trait more eastern norther or rural .
The ending on a high note kind of used like saying eh at the end of a sentence.
We are trying to get you to acknowledge and check to see if you are in agreement.

This fellow is probably from the east coast.
I am going to say Nova Scotia ( we would need to wait to hear him say roller coaster with an I in it or see iof he calls a cigarette a ciggy lol to confirm)

Small generators have their place.
But the smaller they get the less efficient so keep in mind its more cost effective to run a big unit and run everything you need to do at once than it is to run single small jobs repeatedly.

I really don’t like the little units like that Honda

[Wallace]

How small is small?
I have one of these that I suspect is no worse or better on fuel than a Honda of the same size( well probably a bit worse but its all relative when your your turning 90% of your fuel to noise and smoke at these levels )

Kohler 1.5mm 25 1500 watt generator

Its has a low idle feature ( mine is different it has remote start/stop option )

A smart fellow can make up some controls to sense a need for a load start a remote unit and shut it down after the load is serviced.
This is the ideal situation for a small unit to run a critical load like a sump pump or fridge freezer.

A low idle is better for those times you run a power tool with a duty cycle between 25 and 50%.

This is an even smaller unit that ran lights.
That’s all it was designed to do run lights…
Not really a cost effective unit for any use today.

1951 Kohler 350M21 350 Watt Electric Plant Generator Set #2

[SteveUnruh]

I do not think you will get any argument from either Dave or I that too small is just too small.
Even on gasoline I found at the sipping low rates I had to religiously only tank fill through a cone coffee filter, or a painter’s filter.
Too many times I was carb clogging on station black hose lining sheds; or even red plastic slivers from my own can neck threads.

My special project back in 2015/16 was to gift to every single adult women in the family her own personal easy carry, easy starting electrical generator. I was sick of trying to convince their men of the necessity for personal power back up. I budgeted at most $200. each Gen, fuel can, funnel, extension cord three way ended and all.
Ended up using three H.F. 2 cycles; one slightly higher wattage rated All-trades branded 2-cycle; One Firman branded small 4-cycle; and one very closeout discounted 78 pound Pulsar branded 2500 watt 4 cycle.
Within 3 years they all did get Grid down used by these woman.

The All-trades 2-cycles developed a death rattle in my 50 hour break in. I never released it. Kept it for parts. Good thing. One of the H.F.'s developed a tank seam leak. Easy to swap over parts between them. The cute little Firman 4-stroke never did stop shedding aluminum even after four oil changes. I gifted it away anyhow expecting it to only ever be intermittently used with low hours. It was like the best as no fuel mixing. It got hunters camp snagged year after year as always starting easy even at high altitudes.

That Pulsar was the loudest small generator I ever had. I even tried stiffing the muffler with SS scrubbing pads. Gave it away outside the family to a friend. A very tough gal built her own house and cuts her own firewood annually.

To be accepted by the woman these all had to be “cute”, unintimidating, easy to pack-move and start up.
The old Honda’s were these.
The new Honda 1000’s 2000’s 2200’s are these too. The wife loved hers I gave her.
One of my sisters and one adult niece have now on their own upgraded to Honda 2000’s inverter generators. One BIL later did buy a Yamaha 2000 inverter generator. Now one of my other sisters.
S.U.

[Wallace]

I just don’t see the point in putting too much effort into fixing something unless its very cheap and easy to fix ( and its the kind of thing that will need frequent attention ).

If its hard to fix and expensive to maintain then it needs to work so exceptionally well that it will justify that cost.

Over all will my investment in time be rewarded with many long years of service?

[SteveUnruh]

Wallace I agree 100%.
On my own personal use systems that is what I will apply. Buy quality new or used and cry once rather than crying many times (too many) trying to fix made throw-a-ways.

Example my now 14? year old was expensive Makita 14.5 vdc drill-driver had finally flat worn out it’s clutch. Been working on only one weak battery for the last three years. I checked around what the local professional users were hard using now and paid more for the Milwaukie 18-volt “FUEL” system.

None of the women (and indirectly men) I B’day gifted out system too are interested in woodgas, chargas or any alternative fuels.
But once they have actually storms experienced the relief a few hundreds of watts will give for lighting; and a perishables refrigerator; home entertainment systems, cell phone charging . . .
Well, they are all registered voters in Washington and Oregon states.
So will support the continued offering, buying, owning of small IC engines.

There you go. Dirty rotten so-an-so me: out buying votes.
Naw. Changing hearts & minds. Perceptions.
I’d wished I could have found more than just that one Honda EM600. And found 3-4-5 EM650’s. I would have been willing to be the parts, repair-guy family, go-too guy for those.
Fun working on quality.
The pits working on was-shit-when-new.

Buying the H.F. 9500, 15.3 hp was really not typical for me. The wildfires were spotting area all around. Still four active burns going on, this side of the mountains. I need that deep well to be pumping wetting down in a forced wildfire, Grid disconnect.
S.U.

[SteveUnruh]

O.K. finally at 50.1 hours light loading breaking in this H.F. Chinese 9500/7600 inverter generator.
Time for some fully loaded testing.

First I tried a full 1200 watts on the left hand heater + a full 1800 watts on the tall center heater (120 volts) + a rated 4000 watts (240v) on the old big righthand heater.
Pulled them all but unloaded itself, cutting off all output power, going down to a low speed 2400 RPM after 5 minutes.
Hmmm. It should have carried all three. The individual circuit breakers did not pop open.
‘I think’ an inverter-controller overheat sensor did not like this. An afternoon in the sun run at 80F ambient.
Stopped the engine. Gave 5 minutes cooling down to re-start.
Having reset the two smaller 120VAC heater down to ~half loading.

It then ran a total of 1.3 hours on the measured one U.S. Gallon of gasoline. Time including the from first cold engine starting up. Three minutes unloaded warming up. The soon forced shut down and restarting fuel usages.

I know my methods will seem un-precise, slack, being not directly live measured.
Ha! Not my goal to feed the pencil whippers and efficiency-manic’s.

I have numerous personal goals now doing these one gallon tests.
First break it before it’s 90 day warranty ends locking me in to truly owning it.
Next by know how many full produced kW-hours of electrical power sullied I can then set up my existing Ben’sBuilt gasifier to supply for 3, or 4 hours raw woodgas unattended runs.
And knowing the farmable true kW-hours from the one gallon gasoline BTU’s ideal then I’ll know if I have enough engine-generator waste heats available for fuel drying.
Enough to reduce 3, hopefully 4 hour worth of a true winter wet picked up gasifer fuel wood from 50% ground contact rains wetted weight down to 20%?
Enough waste heat to reduce down fresh cut live wood from 40-44% down to a gasifer useable 20%?
I think so. This second confirmation run I am doing now today will confirm.
For me a useable back-up, or fall-back system cannot be exclusively stored fuel dependent.
Ideal sun dried 10% moisture wood is a dependency.

And I am still amazed I can hand pull crank this to starting in one pull on this cool 50F morning.
Another trick I got from another brand system download operations manual. Flipping open the 240 V circuit breakers before cranking reduces cranking energy needed. Hmm? Puzzler there. But it does work. Charging coils loading the big multiple system capacitors, maybe?
Regards
Steve Unruh

[Wallace]

The big iron followed me home

Stinky girl approved

The very opposite of what you are chasing
50 cubic inches of twin cylinder 1800 rpm 4000 watt dinosaur

I’m a past life I think it was used by a movie production house for location shoots.

[d100f (Dave & Brian)]

Steve , i have always had a system over load drop out when over pulling my inverter generator but mine is a slightly strange one , if i am charging up a bank of batteries that are pretty flat and i have my inverter charger plugged in and charging up my battery bank at around 80 amps and i also have a small battery charger or any other lighter load plugged into the generator at the same time and i am running on char gas if i have not got the system warmed up or have a air fuel mix that’s not just right then my generator will suddenly unhook the high load charging the batterys , but wont affect the lighter load and you can hear the generator speed up up and then slow down as it tries to re start the higher power and the engine slows right down and as it reaches peak power if i have not adjusted the air fuel mix it will just repeat this as a hunting up and down till i get the mix right .
strange how it seems not to affect the lower powered appliance that runs all the time even when its hunting up and down .
Dave
Ps i am in talks with these people about getting a few 8KW units over here if the price is right .

[Hot Item] 1-8kw 230V 50Hz 60Hz Petrol Generator Portable Gasoline Engine...

[Wallace]

Those Chinese, even Honda units are hanging on by their nails to deliver rated power.
If you want best performance and operation, run them no more than 80% of rated load.

Onan is what I know best but its by no means unique a JB comparable to the inverter units you guys are talking about is 60 cubic inches, almost 1 litre!
And this is not an antique this is a modern OHV engine. ( made right into the 90s almost unchanged for 40 years )

Looks at the difference in size the big units can shed heat.
They are made of iron they don;t flex.
They hold a gallon of oil.

Onan 6.0 JB Load Test

It can pull a rated 6000 or 7500 watts ( and has a little room for overloads ).
Compare this to a Chinese inverter.
The math works out the engines are about 10% smaller in capacity.
So assume a minimum running amps about 10% less.

Also these are aluminum block engines, they don;t have oil pumps or babbit bearings and steel rods inside.
They are not able to work like big engines, thats life.

If you have a variable load, thats where they shine saving fuel at lower power setting than a big set.

Also:
That grass sure looks dry Steve.
You still shortage of rain?

Here’s a bigger unit, the math still works however.
460 Ford industrial engine ( beefed up not a vehicle engine ) 30kw Kohler electrics.
Your looking around 60 to 75 cubic inches to make 7500 watts at 1800 rpm.
Well in excess of 500cc 3600 rpm 7500 watts if you want to look at it that way…

Ford turbo 460ci V8 on Kohler generator, running during blackout, and Cummins 543ci 6 replacement

Light duty standby unit - emergency unit…
305 cubic in GM engine 45 kw head 3600 rpm.
Quality stuff but its all hair and teeth to do it no room for overloads and a short and brutal life at those RPM.
But its a standby unit only works in an emergency or when exercised for short periods.
it will wear itself out and need to be replaced not because of hours working, but hours screaming on a by weekly exercise cycle, that’s just life…

Again do the numbers, engine size RPM power output…
And these big units are also advantaged by their size, they bigger they are the more efficient they are ( the ratio of power to displacement still is relatively the same in spite of this )

45KW Briggs & Stratton Generator - V8 Engine

[SteveUnruh]

Thanks for the feedback info on these Chinese inverter units when gasifier fueled Dave.
Reading the specification on your link Iwas once again nose-bumped that an inverter unit does not have to be RPM locked to get your 50 hertz or my 60 hertz.
So many years and I’d be thinking 1800’3600 for me. 1500/3000 for you. Inverter unit making wild AC first is how the RPM can vary. Even above 3600. I measured the wife’s little 100cc Honda 2000 going 4400 RPM at full loading.

Wallace you are of course correct. For longest life and rebuildable a fellow does want stiff heavy cast iron. A low stressed power per displacement. Pumped large capacity oil. Oil cooled oil.
A member here Bruce Jackson deployed in the 2nd Iraq go-around had responsibility to maintaining hard ran smaller diesel generators for base unit AC’s. Ran until they died. Pitched out in a pile then put in a new air freighted in bid bought by contract unit.
He said the Kubota water cooled were the longest lifed units. Four cylinder. Cast Iron. Water cooled. With larger, cooled oil capacity’s.
Expensive. At least 10X a Chinese air cooled. “Portable” with equipment doing the moving.

On the other topic I put up a youtube video about a Kansas? Missouri? fellow viving with family, dog and critters on a rural property in a 5th-wheel R.V. while the house was being built.
He was getting 1200-1500 hour hard ran out of these H.F. 9500’s. He was 50 hours changing the oil. Break in? Whats that? Wife needs AC right not out of the box. Kids need heat, TV, seattlite right out of the box.
Still as I said back on that topic at best these will be 3,000-4,000 hours at the very best.
Yep. And that all aluminum, no-insert connecting rod will be unusable then. No real hope for individual parts like that.
So need realistically a whole 'nother unit.
For a PV solar guy like Dave that 3,000-4,000 hours might be 4-5 years. Not bad $'s per years, per watt used and made.
Me and others using as seasonal events Grid-down . . . .maybe 10 years for our 3,000-4,000 hours. Even a better cost per time and watts.
And quiet wives acceptable watts at that.

My 2nd fully loaded poer run came in again at 1.3 hours for one measuered U.S.gallon.
So the not published running time for it’s 6.8 gallon U.S. tank would be 8.84 hours. Just say 8 hours.
kW-hours made in one U.S. gallon E10 would be 7.8-9.1
So a full tank of E10 gasoline would be 69-80 kW-hours. That is THREE or FOUR full days of what our household uses full Grid connected.

Our Big Hydro - some Big wind - some big coal steam - only one now Nuclear big grid costs u s for 3-4 days $15-20 USD.
Gasoline? Silly to spend that ongoing. Propane? Only a bit cost effective better.
But now your own property grown woodgas or charcoal gas electricity? Win. Win. Win.
Play your own game, for your own benefits to win.
S.U.

[SteveUnruh]

Yes Wallace, I did notice your green yard grasses.
IF our annual drought break rains had come and stayed we would have green back up by now.
6 weeks of next week by the weather folk.
Four ongoing wildfires 15-45 miles to the north, east and south of us now.
In and out od stage 1 and stage 2 evacuation alerts. Smoky days.
Not fun.
Not plesannt at all.
Last year we lost ~5% trees to early May and June 100F new growth killing temps.
Only four sprinkle days in the last 130+ not even accumulating 1/2 inch of total rain.
The last nourishing soaker day was June the 10th.
We will overall loose another 5% trees just could not endure.

I am starting to see the need in going with some PV now even here wet-side.
Ha! Ha! So $,$$$ for better engine generators? Or $,$$$ for kW’s of P.V. ?
S.U.

[Norman89 (Marcus Norman)]

I just took delivery of by bimart batterys from family friend and banked them up, solar has been powering the wifes workshop nicely 2 weeks now. Discovered I now need bigger inverter to run heater and cup turners and lights all at once. Winter coming and epoxy wont set in low temps, so far have had great luck with the hazard fraught jupiter line of inverters, time to measure each component usage and see how big a inverter I can get. Much better then cooking extension chords bi weekly! Its like her superpower is killing chords and outlets I swear … her mother exhibits the same powers I wonder if its hereditary

[tcholton717 (Tom Holton)]

All the years I worked Iron, from the Mid sixties to early 90’s there was always a Lincoln SA-200 welder or 10 on site running all day long, year after year with a Continental engine.

[Wallace]

I’m not gloating about my green grass.

But the dry weather you folks are having is a deep concern.

[Wallace]

@tcholton717

All the years I worked Iron, from the Mid sixties to early 90’s there was always a Lincoln SA-200 welder or 10 on site running all day long, year after year with a Continental engine.

Running at 1800 rpm, compression at about 6:1 ( flat head and all I am guessing the number actually )
I’ve worked on a few of them, my nephew has one and I have a spare engine for it put of for the day it gets rebuilt.

A lot of guys modernize them with the Kubbota 1140 engine ( ID 4 cylinder you see in a lot of stuff now, I think you are familiar with the type ) cut your fuel burn in half with the diesel but the continentals do run for ever.
You almost have to abuse them the make them stop welding

[SteveUnruh]

Yeah the four now local wilkfire are a concern alright:

Nakia Creek Fire in Clark County reaches 2,000 acres; evacuations underway

Map will expand with two times over-click.
Any of these four are just a eastside winds driven 1 1/2 days away. We are at Yacolt on the one map.

For serios long term engine electrical generation it will always be an engine at 1500/1800 RPM.
The sound quality is much more tolerable to me and most others versus the frenzy of 3600 RPM screaming on hour after hour.
This single cylinder 459cc in my 9500/7600 is almost pleasnt when at 2400-2800. I do not like it’s sound quality at 3300 RPM.
I’d be sound wise much happier with a V-twin.
Be much happier with a pressurized oil pumped engine with and external oil cooler like in my Kohlers and Kawasaki V-twins.

Oh well. Some day when the 459cc is worn out if the inverter-charging components are still good I’ll be looking to changing over to one of my V-Twins.

[Wallace]

@SteveUnruh

This single cylinder 459cc in my 9500/7600 is almost pleasnt when at 2400-2800. I do not like it’s sound quality at 3300 RPM.

Stroke is too short.
It will run there, but its just not optimal and no one makes an optimal small engine anymore.
The ACN wisconsin is waiting for valves.
There was an engine designed to run at these lower speeds with the right combination of stroke rod length and bore.
But its been 40 years since they last built engines like that.

[SteveUnruh]

As some may recall I am going to be buying a rubber tracked wheel barrow for moving my firewood up from our lower property up to the sunny drying house/shop area.
I do not want to develop roads with our raining season erosions.
And with our slope on this small property my very capable 2wd J.D./Yanmar tractor would soon roll-over; or brakes-overcome and make my wife into a widow.

So I watch a lot of user videos on these with the emphasis on wood handling on rough ground.
Sigh. Unfortunately the best set-ups are in Europe. Germany and Poland? And especially Italy out into the surrounding countries.
Zero-No distribution of these into the USofA. 2X-3X the cost of available to me Chinese machines. Then add in from Europe shipping and custom duties just an $$,$$$ impossibilty.
So how could a Chinese machine be modified and made more capable?
Here is an Italian Motocarriola system that does much more than just rough ground transport firewood chunks or meter long log sections:

Motocarriola personalizzata

[SteveUnruh]

Ha! A video to watch for a couple of wood harvesters I know are inside sick biding time.
This system like many of the European units is fully hydraulic powered: drive tracks; and all bed actuator movements. You can tell by the 90 degree engine mounting versus for a belts and chain drive manual transmissions ones. These have poor rear ground clearances.
And the two fellows in this video need to be introduced to the log moving pickaroon tool!
Enjoy watching. I did.
Steve Unruh

[d100f (Dave & Brian)]

Pretty sure that video got me more excited than any porn video i watched in years , clever use of the tilt and load features on the standard track carrier’s on offer for sale on the made in China web site .
My Honda track mover is just a mover and only has a manual tilt and no loading / unloading lift ,

but i would be lost without as everyday it is loaded to the hilt with fire wood and things i leave laying around the garden that my dear wife shouts at me to move my junk out of sight
Dave.